'In ten years this bridge will collapse': the man who foresaw a tragedy

FriendlyFire

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The bridge collapsing is a fairy tale, and its also the EU fault for telling Italy to spend more on its infrastructure. Also Polands fault, if the drivers were Italian the bridge would never have collapsed.

Seriously a lot of the reinforced building projects are in serious risk as these were built with developing technology which engineers didnt fully understand. The use of concrete to substitute steel is clearly one of them.A lot of our cheaply constructed infrastructure now need replacing
And its sad that even the proposal to build a bypass for heavy trucks was scrapped. They could have also removed the central cement barriers right down the middle to try and reduce the weight.

'In ten years this bridge will collapse': the man who foresaw a tragedy

Experts called it a “failure of engineering”, a “failed technology”, and pointed to other Morandi projects that had collapsed.

“In ten years the Morandi Bridge will collapse, and we will all have to queue for hours, and we will remember the name of whoever said ‘no’ [to the Gronda],” he said.

In April 2013 M5S’s ‘No Gronda’ committee posted a statement on the party website saying they had been regularly told a “tale of the imminent collapse of the Morandi Bridge” but it was a “favolette” – a fairy tale. On Tuesday, the statement mysteriously vanished from M5S’s website.

“If there are European constraints that prevent us from spending money to secure … the highways our workers are travelling on, we will put the safety of Italians in front of everyone and everyone,” he said.

Salvini rode to his extraordinary electoral success on the back of blaming the EU for many Italian ills.

EU had recommended more infrastructure spending, not less. The review warned that servicing Italy’s debt was “to the detriment of more growth-enhancing items including education, innovation and infrastructure”. It encouraged the government to foster infrastructure with “better-targeted investment”.

An analysis by Corriere Della Serra found more reasons the EU may share the blame. Part of the extra stress on the bridge was from a boom in extra-heavy trucks.

And pan-EU competition has had an effect too: smaller Italian truck companies have been driven out of business by heavy-load international competitors: huge trucks driven by Poles whose salaries cost a third of their local counterparts.

The collapse of the Morandi Bridge was caused by weather, physics, and decades of mistakes and oversights. This failure is no orphan.

https://www.smh.com.au/world/europe...an-who-foresaw-a-tragedy-20180816-p4zxqf.html
 
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This bridge is of the rare full-concrete type whereby not only the pyloons are made of concrete but also the "cables".
It has also only 4 cables per pyloon, meaning that if something goes wrong with one cable, everything goes wrong.
It was build in the 60ies when calculations had to be done manually, and multi cable pyloon bridges, buiding a structural safety in the design for failure of one cable, were difficult to calculate in full.
=> the bridge was state of the art when it was build, but the concept was rare and not used later on anymore for good reasons.

Outdated engineering is likely one cause.
Maintenance is worthwhile to investigate because of the lessons learned. And this picture of the bridge before the collapse gives a weird feeling:
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It must also be a weird feeling to cross bridges if you consider all the concrete frauds in Italy, where the construction mafia sold concrete with lesser cement than specified.
As such there is a safety factor in the strenght of concrete that was not foreseen and calculated in bridges build in the 20th century, because the concrete normally used in these construction strenghtens over decades with some 20%.
At least in Dutch bridges, where this effect gives most concrete viaducts and concrete components of bridges another two or three decades longer lifetime.
Perhaps we should also recognise that engineering of bridges is still a knowledge field with progressive insight.
It is however up to the local governments to choose the balance between cost and safety. To choose for "better safe than sorry" or a lesser level.
Privatisation like it happened in Italy seems to me the wrong choice.
But even if the quality and the safety is in the hands of the state..... in Spain the records on safety of the bridges are not public but officially a state secret.

As side notes:
There is a similar bridge from the same engineer in Venezuela, build 6 years earlier, only much bigger....
When the issues of these old bridges are well known (enough reports on that in the countries and in the case of Italy flanked by civil society and the EU)... when those issues are clear.... how can it happen that Italian banks had enough money to invest in a shaky Turkey and not in their own country ?
I saw in an article that the total replacement cost of logistics infrastructure in my country equals roughly the GDP 60% of the GDP of one year. If Italy is really going to adress the situation, having already a national debt of 130% of GDP, and having as well a lot of money invested by its banks in shaky foreign economies, having Climate invests to do as well...... how much money will be left for this new government for the slogans they used to get so many votes ?
How ill adviced on economical issues are these parties.... or how deceiving their election campaign ?

This is really something where good informatiuon to the public is important. Not the juicy political infightings, but boring solid good info on your country.
 
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The bridge is steel reinforced concrete.

The "cables" have pre-stressed steel cables inside them. (The cables were tensioned to compress the concrete)
There have been problems with stressing cables rusting in many structures.

Concrete can lose strength over years as well as gain strength.
 
Concrete can lose strength over years as well as gain strength.

Do you mean the intrinsic strenght or from erosion ?
Normally intrinsic strenght goes up even after a long time because of a slow but steady increase of hydration degree (depending also on kind of concrete, amount and kind of cemrnt etc
Environmental pollution like sulfates bad, but that is a kind of erosion.
 
EU: "Spend more on infrastructure!"
Stability And Growth Pact: *exists*
Me to the EU:
 
Corruption involving concrete and building trades? In Italy? Inconceivable!
 
Corruption involving concrete and building trades? In Italy? Inconceivable!

The following 2009 report estimates the Mafia income to be 8.9% of Italy GDP.
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Blows my mind that the mafia has managed to infiltrate Italian society so much that the Italian government isn't even able to shut down any of the families, or screw with their profits. And the EU doesn't seem to care about it either? Odd.

As for the tragedy, it seems it could have been prevented, but a populist government ignored expert advice. I hope somebody goes to jail for this.
 
It is Italy, though. Perhaps they will jail the expert who said it would last 10 years when it only lasted 5.5. After all they are the ones that jailed the earthquake experts.
 
Do you mean the intrinsic strenght or from erosion ?
Normally intrinsic strenght goes up even after a long time because of a slow but steady increase of hydration degree (depending also on kind of concrete, amount and kind of cemrnt etc
Environmental pollution like sulfates bad, but that is a kind of erosion.

Both.

You can get things like alkali-silica reaction with the agregate.
Sulfate attack can be from an internal source as well as external.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concrete_degradation

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Concrete and steel reinforcement (and stressing tendons) can degrade for many reasons but we do not know if there was any problem with the design of the concrete or the detailing of the structure to protect it, its manufacture and placement, or maintenance. The Morandi bridge collapse could have been caused by bearing failure etc. assuming that the problem was the mafia supplying substandard concrete is pure speculation. The bridge was refurbished in 90s and is currently being worked on, it is likely that samples of concrete would have been taken and tested then, too allow the works to be designed.
 
It's not like Italians couldn't build a bridge to last.



The Roman concrete was also much better

As the authors note, the Romans were aware of the virtues of their concrete, with Pliny the Elder waxing lyrical in his Natural History that it is “impregnable to the waves and every day stronger”.
The Roman recipe – a mix of volcanic ash, lime (calcium oxide), seawater and lumps of volcanic rock – held together piers, breakwaters and harbours. Moreover, in contrast to modern materials, the ancient water-based structures became stronger over time.

Now, they say, they’ve worked out why. Writing in the journal American Mineralogist, Jackson and colleagues describe how they analysed concrete cores from Roman piers, breakwaters and harbours.
Previous work had revealed lime particles within the cores that surprisingly contained the mineral aluminous tobermorite – a rare substance that is hard to make.
The mineral, said Jackson, formed early in the history of the concrete, as the lime, seawater and volcanic ash of the mortar reacted together in a way that generated heat.
But now Jackson and the team have made another discovery. “I went back to the concrete and found abundant tobermorite growing through the fabric of the concrete, often in association with phillipsite [another mineral],” she said.
She said this revealed another process that was also at play. Over time, seawater that seeped through the concrete dissolved the volcanic crystals and glasses, with aluminous tobermorite and phillipsite crystallising in their place.
These minerals, say the authors, helped to reinforce the concrete, preventing cracks from growing, with structures becoming stronger over time as the minerals grew.
https://www.theguardian.com/science...ill-stands-strong-while-modern-version-decays
 
The Roman concrete was also much better


Yeah, I've found it odd that Roman concrete really doesn't seem to have been duplicated in the modern world. Good stuff.

That said, you want a bridge to really last a long time, you still should build of stone when you can. Granted, it's expensive as hell, by modern standards. But it's also durable as hell.

I mean, this is here, and carries over 140,000 cars, trucks, and buses a day.




And hasn't had to be rebuilt or replaced in the past half century.
 
Roman marine concrete seems like it should be stronger than stone structures because it interacts chemically with sea water to actually become stronger over time.
The reason is complicated and has to do with use of volcanic sediments in the binder and volcanic rocks in the aggregate. I don't think this happens in structures that are on land.

I mean, this is here, and carries over 140,000 cars, trucks, and buses a day.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albany_Street_Bridge

This bridge near my hometown is pretty dope too. Been there since 1887. Not sure how many vehicles it takes per day, probably lower than 140,000.
 
EU: "Spend more on infrastructure!"
Stability And Growth Pact: *exists*
Me to the EU:

They did that to Portugal back in 2008:
EC to the portuguese government - there's a crisis, you should spend more in, like, infrastructure.
Germans show up in Brussels and have a talk with the commission
Sigh this pact and cut spending or we'll strangle your banks!
 
Roman marine concrete seems like it should be stronger than stone structures because it interacts chemically with sea water to actually become stronger over time.
The reason is complicated and has to do with use of volcanic sediments in the binder and volcanic rocks in the aggregate. I don't think this happens in structures that are on land.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albany_Street_Bridge

This bridge near my hometown is pretty dope too. Been there since 1887. Not sure how many vehicles it takes per day, probably lower than 140,000.


The bridge I linked was built in 1908. But it was expanded in a year I'd have to look up. So not all original. But it also carries an 8 lane wide interstate highway.
 
Yeah, I found a source saying Albany Street Bridge's average daily traffic is less than 16,000. Not surprising given it only has a four-lane road on it.
 
They did that to Portugal back in 2008:
EC to the portuguese government - there's a crisis, you should spend more in, like, infrastructure.
Germans show up in Brussels and have a talk with the commission
Sigh this pact and cut spending or we'll strangle your banks!

Italy same problem as Greece, gross government corruption and inefficiencies imcompetence
Reminds me of when the EU poured 180 Mil in refugee aid and it all vanished into a black hole, and no one really knows where Germanys Euromonies ended up in Greece.

The North of Italy should be the prosperous developed part as well and with it should have better governance with less corruption.
 
An update with an article of the BBC on the possible causes.

The picture showing a bit the aura of optimism in the 60ies of a modernising nation... concrete as magic tool to build economical and powerfull.
Like everywhere in Europe.
That Morandi bridge as concrete modern art.

That concrete, used not in the traditional reinforced concretete fashion, but as cladding of an as such steel structure, could very well have been one of the root design causes, because free steel bridge constructions are easier to inspect over time on steel corrosion, and the concrete cladding in those days was not secure enough.
Inspections in the 90ies had shown severe corrosion issues from defects in the concrete cladding in other pylons, which were corrected. But change of ownership from the Italian State to Autostrade happened before the pylon that collapsed was handled.

https://www.bbc.com/news/stories-49332175


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