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In the USA, 48% reject evolution, 34% of college graduades are Biblical creationists

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by aneeshm, Mar 31, 2007.

  1. Mirc

    Mirc Not mIRC!!!

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    That was exactly my first thought. There are a lot of people here in minority in the real world because of their (most of the time not-so-great to put it nicely opinions) that grouped here and attack anyone that doesn't agree with them. I know some that aren't like this, but those are clearly outnubmered, they are like 1 every 20-30. "A lion is very weak when surrounded by sixty dogs.", to quote a famous writer.
     
  2. El_Machinae

    El_Machinae Colour vision since 2018 Retired Moderator

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    I'll continue my point.

    When I took genetics, we had to study a myriad of 'information adding' events. Viral infections, replication errors, internal reverse transcriptases, etc. Since then, I've heard more reports of new types of 'information adding'.

    We've been able to sequence DNA for quite some time now, the idea that mutations can add information is well and truely established by laboratory science. I keep in mind, too, that this 'addition' was predicted before we could sequence the DNA as easily as we currently can.

    The statement "there's no information gain" is a patently false statement.
     
  3. Jamesds

    Jamesds Great Scientist

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    I did read your link, warpus, but I have read other things which seem to contradict it. Dr Lee Spetner (apologies saying evolutionists have made the claim above, i don't think he's an evolutionist and I was referring to him) has said:

    Hi :) . Not only that, but as a Christian I find evolution contradicts the Bible. I have not heard of Hovind, and I agree there are several "creationists" who use false information. Please correct me if I am misunderstanding you. I understand you are saying that we musn't discount positive mutations just because we haven't seen them? But if we haven't seen them - and don't assume them - then the theory isn't functioning properly. Who's to say your 'instructors' are speaking the truth? You respect them, and thus believe them. I am not saying they are lying, but that science changes, new things are discovered, and some things are discounted. If you are convinced about mutations, then lets argue no further about them. There are plenty of other arguements against evolution ;) .
     
  4. Jamesds

    Jamesds Great Scientist

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    Yes, I wonder too. So, if the theory of evolution is scrapped, then what? Billions of people and many scientists have lost their 'religion'. The theory of evolution will never be scrapped, however many good arguements by credible scientists are launched against it. Then they would have to admit there is a God, a creator, and many of them aren't willing to do that.

    For now, lets agree to disagree about mutations :). I respect your views, but I have other sources named above and in my sig that contradict it.
     
  5. El_Machinae

    El_Machinae Colour vision since 2018 Retired Moderator

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    Not all! We've seen them! Time and again! And not just from one source, but a myriad of sources.

    And you're right, I do have to base my beliefs on trust in the scientists. But it's not just trusting a few people; there are literally hundreds of experiments (done by different groups with different sources of funding from different countries) showing "information gain". For similar reasons, I also believe that the sun emits radiation beyond the visible spectrum; there are hosts of different sources confirming this statement.

    I don't know who Spetner is, but I cannot figure out how a Dr. doesn't know about information-adding mutations. What's he a doctor of?
     
  6. Eran of Arcadia

    Eran of Arcadia Stormin' Mormon Retired Moderator

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    Again:

    A DNA sequence changing from GTA to GTC is a mutation. A DNA sequence changing from GTC to GTA, also a mutation. How can they both result in information loss?
     
  7. warpus

    warpus In pork I trust

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    Well, it would have to be replaced with a theory that explains evolution better.

    You say that mutations can't possibly be used to explain evolution? Well, what's the alternative explanation?

    The Theory of Evolution will never be scrapped because it is too damn good at making accurate predictions about the natural world. Modern Biology is based on it. To scrap the theory of evolution as a whole would mean re-thinking all of modern biology.

    It seems to work so well though, I don't see the theory going anywhere anytime soon. If anything it will be little parts of it that will get updated, making the theory more and more correct as time goes on.
     
  8. Xanikk999

    Xanikk999 History junkie

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    Please post some good examples of an alternative against evolution.. or arguments whatever.
     
  9. JollyRoger

    JollyRoger Slippin' Jimmy Supporter

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    In the beginning . . .
     
  10. El_Machinae

    El_Machinae Colour vision since 2018 Retired Moderator

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    People have had a great deal of fun scraping General Relativity and Quantum Mechanics, while building a superior model :)
     
  11. Jamesds

    Jamesds Great Scientist

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    If that actually occured in a DNA sequence, it could well be one of the error-checking, proof-reading and repair mechanisms in our genetic machinery. It is not necessarily a mutation, but restoring information that was originally there. Anyway, if this was a mutation, it happens so rarely in cell replication, and can generally be shown to be not advancing evolution. The alteration of a letter in a DNA sequence can happen accidentally as I said, but ultimately it has not been shown to assist in the evolutionary process. That's what Dr Spetner was saying.

    As for arguments against evolution, I refer you to www.creationontheweb.org and the link in my signature - they can give you better answers then I can.
     
  12. Xanikk999

    Xanikk999 History junkie

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    Sorry for being retarted but where in this horribly biased website are the arguments?

    Give me a link to the page, not the homepage.
     
  13. El_Machinae

    El_Machinae Colour vision since 2018 Retired Moderator

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    Ugh; people should donate their money to a charity that helps people instead of a charity based on disinformation.
     
  14. Xanikk999

    Xanikk999 History junkie

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    Agreed. The whole term creation science is an oxymoron.
     
  15. El_Machinae

    El_Machinae Colour vision since 2018 Retired Moderator

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    Naw, it's not really an oxymoron. Just every theory has been debunked.
     
  16. Xanikk999

    Xanikk999 History junkie

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    Well i dont know if i could call the flying spaghetti monster a science could i?

    Religion is a science but taking something out of thin air and calling it a theory is not.

    In fact that would even fit the criteria of a theory.
     
  17. El_Machinae

    El_Machinae Colour vision since 2018 Retired Moderator

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    Oh, I think that the FSM predicts less than Creation Science would. For example, Creation Science predicts that the human genome used to be able to support that people could live centuries and has since degraded. This means that we should be able to find mutations of genes that would allow us to live longer (we haven't). It predicts that there should be evidence of a global extinction within the last few millenia. It predicts that there would be evidence of a repopulation of the continents at roughly the same times. etc.

    These are all theories that don't have good evidence supporting them. The more evidence we get, the more the theories are debunked. But don't be confused, Creation Science did make some testable predictions! It just failed.
     
  18. shadowdude

    shadowdude cynic in training

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    Very well put, this sums up my view of the situation.
     
  19. Smidlee

    Smidlee Deity

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    Not yet but I remember reading somewhere that there maybe a link between progeria (spelling?) disease (they seems to have found the cause) and normal aging so it is possible that aging is a defect after all. Of course it too early to tell yet I'm amazed at the double standard evolutionist have when they want their skeptics to have patience for they believe they will find the answers in the future but expect creationist to prove everything right now.
    (We have already learn that in our bodies we have cells that able to regrow new body parts.)
     
  20. Xanikk999

    Xanikk999 History junkie

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    Maybe because you cant prove something that was made up as a myth by whoever told the tale of what later became the genesis and was written down.

    Its absolutely loony to think that the genesis (creationism) is real, it has no bearings of evidence and looks exactly like it was written by people who didnt know how things worked (which it was!).

    We know much more today about the universe then they did, and we can discard the myth of creationism with actual evidence.
     

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