In What Electronic Entertainment Have You Been Partaking #19: Cyberpunked

[AdamCrock]

wow ...

 

[aimeeandbeatles]

Also it's fun to give an alien dino some food and then have a herd of them start swarming and pooping all over the place.

 

[AdamCrock]

Well the planet not gonna fertilize itself ..... good job !

 

[aelf]

I don't think I'm misunderstanding anything. My tangent about ideology in video games culture aside (which CDPR have definitely taken a stance on, not to mention their literal government funding - art does not exist in a vacuum, and the same goes for video games, if folks don't count it as such), there is a rather unprecedented pushback on what is, factually, a very troubled and on specific platforms outright broken release.

"niggles about customisation" is itself an issue of ideology. What is a niggle for you, might not be for others. And so on, and so forth. That's nuance, sure, which maybe we need a Cyberpunk thread for specifically. I'm trying to keep it relevant to gaming in general (trying haha, maybe not succeeding). You claim "bandwagon" when it's just popular opinion. It is popular opinion that this game went several ways of broken on its release. It's not a bandwagon, it's not an echo chamber. These words and phrases are important, but here they just read as you (among others) downplaying actual, legitimate criticism. I was on the fence earlier in the thread, but you're leaning into it hard here ("the game sucks in every way" is a strawman and not representative of anyone's opinion, for example).

You're constructing a strawman now. Nowhere did I say that niggles about customisation are not an ideological issue. And niggles are niggles - context matters. Gender-restricted hairstyles are a staple of RPGs, and while questioning it is valid, it's a niggle within the context. Especially in comparison to the bad bugs that should rightly be taking priority right now. You can't have your cake and eat it. If the release is terrible because of the bugs, then fixing them is the priority. Everything else has to be a separate conversation and it's not productive to lump them all together. That's all I'm saying.

There absolutely is a narrative of "the game sucks in every way" out there. I'm not claiming anyone here is saying that. If you refuse to accept this, just as some may refuse to accept that CDPR is not yet a traditional big video game company, then sure, have it your way. But don't suggest that I'm lying about it.

The game has been given a chance. It has been given multiple chances. "give the game a chance" does not absolve it of its numerous and high-profile faults, after years of development and additional funding. Not to mention the crunch practises (allegedly, but also in reality) employed by CDPR (the publisher side). Expectations were high, and rightfully so. The game was delayed what, three times? And it still came out completely non-functional on a launch platform (the next-gen consoles weren't even meant to be live by the date of the original launch, so folks can't claim that they were targeting next-gen exclusively).

The game has been released for how long? I'm not sure what you consider giving it a chance. Again, it seems your idea is very different from mine.

The argument that emphasises how buggy the game is despite the delays and that also talks about the crunch smacks of the same issue of wanting to have your cake and eat it. If they had delayed the game again, we might have avoided this issue altogether and the complaints would have been focused on the delay. The crunch may also not have been as bad (apparently, they paid their people for it - something not done by some other companies). So talking about all 3 in the same breath seems odd. Criticising the unfinished state of the game and the crunch seem to be an argument for more delays.

I'd understand this if folks went to bat for every video game this way. I'm notoriously pro-developer (not publisher, for the record). If folks wanted to be this nuanced about games developers this way. But we're a Firaxis fan forum and I don't even see that nuance for Firaxis. So to me it's evident when (and this isn't on you at all aelf, it's across the Internet) a specific game or development team gets a pass. And even then, you're not giving the devs a pass. You're giving management a pass. The publisher. Everything most people would normally agree is the weakest point in creating games that deserve to be given a chance.

I don't understand why you're making all these assumptions about my beliefs. When did I condemn or, for that matter, defend Firaxis? It's just not a subject that's come up, so I don't see how you can make any conclusions about whether I'm especially lenient about one particular company relative to Firaxis.

Again, you might not believe me, but I don't tend to complain about games much. If I decide to get a game and play it, I usually either enjoy it or simply decide it's just not for me.

Also, one of the first few things I talked about was how CDPR bit off more than it can chew by deciding to release a game like this on multiple platforms at once. Probably the management's fault, indeed. So, one more time, your point about my stance is not true, this time evidently so.

Your point about CoD is valid, but hey, your dumping on Destiny is also contrived. Destiny is Bungie (original Bungie's) biggest success since Halo. There are reasons why its popular (unlike, say, Anthem). This is just to highlight that often we defend the things we like or don't like, because we like or don't like them.

Funny you allow "dumping" on CoD and Anthem but not Destiny, then, if your argument is that it's just a matter of taste.

Once again, you might not want to believe it, but I didn't bring these games up because they are bad games. Hell, I'm sure at least one iteration of them is gold-standard for their respective genres (FPS and looter shooters). I only brought them up because they are the epitome of successful and popular templates for AAA games out there right now. It's not a concern about quality, but about variety.

Something you're trying to disregard valid criticism of CDPR as. "dog piles are dog piles". Nah. Is there clickbait? Sure. Are there shallow, reductive critiques of the game and its creators? Sure, I'm sure there are.

Alright, so why are we talking about this? If there indeed are clickbait articles and there are shallow, reductive critiques of the game, then you aren't actually disagreeing with me. Why impugn all kinds of motives and beliefs if what I'm saying is not even wrong?

 

[aelf]

EDIT: Talked a bit more about the ideological stuff, but changed my mind. This is a video game discussion. It's not worth it. I'll just let my previous post stand to address some of the accusations/misconceptions about what I said.

 

[Gorbles]

Alright, so why are we talking about this? If there indeed are clickbait articles and there are shallow, reductive critiques of the game, then you aren't actually disagreeing with me. Why impugn all kinds of motives and beliefs if what I'm saying is not even wrong?

Because you're making it out to be a larger issue than it is. You're using the existence of such to diminish the scale and accuracy of legitimate criticism. You are continually doing so, even going as far as to accuse me of the dreaded "strawman" argument (I didn't say you weren't receptive to the argument of ideological bias, I was simply pointing it out. It wasn't some kind of attack on you).

I even said where in my post I wasn't aiming stuff at you, and the single instance I was directing stuff at you, aelf. I was very careful to not assume anything, and only cite you specifically when I could cite actual things that you said in-thread.

I agree, this has turned into something that isn't worth the hassle. But like you, I just wanted to address some of the stuff you came up with, like "accusations", seemingly out of nowhere.

--------------------------------------------

I actually went a bit retro last night, played a game called Heroes of Newerth. It'd be called a "MOBA" these days (there's no other genre for it), but it came out before the Internet erupted in frothing argument about that genre name. It was made by a small indie studio, before LoL got huge and before DotA 2 even existed (mid 2009, hah. How long ago that feels sometimes). It was the original DotA sequel; even had IceFrog working on it for a short time. Both of the other games achieved worldwide international success - HoN sadly didn't. But I still enjoy it, and still have a handle on enough of the game to play it occasionally (I could maybe manage DotA 2, and I'd be hopelessly lost at LoL).

Lost all three of my games

I wasn't playing particularly badly either, but hey. I didn't regret revisiting it.

 

[aelf]

Because you're making it out to be a larger issue than it is. You're using the existence of such to diminish the scale and accuracy of legitimate criticism. You are continually doing so, even going as far as to accuse me of the dreaded "strawman" argument (I didn't say you weren't receptive to the argument of ideological bias, I was simply pointing it out. It wasn't some kind of attack on you).

I even said where in my post I wasn't aiming stuff at you, and the single instance I was directing stuff at you, aelf. I was very careful to not assume anything, and only cite you specifically when I could cite actual things that you said in-thread.

I agree, this has turned into something that isn't worth the hassle. But like you, I just wanted to address some of the stuff you came up with, like "accusations", seemingly out of nowhere.

It was rather unclear in your reply which parts were directed at me and which weren't. The usage of "you" was especially confusing. Regardless, it is clear that at the very least you think I'm simply dismissing criticism.

Speaking of making things out to be a larger issue than it is, that's actually my whole point. It was an evolving situation and initially people weren't clear on which version of the game was not working - there were blanket assessments given both to versions that hardly worked at all and to versions that actually do (PC and next gen consoles). Then there's the ideological stuff, which is a lot more complicated than people seem to assume (due to cultural differences, legacy of source material and existing industry standards). People are going into meme territory, posting complaints about new issues found (not bugs) in the vein of them being 'yet another problem' with the game.

As someone who's hoping the game will succeed and set a trend for good RPGs in this or related genres, this kind of sensationalisation, blanket criticism and bandwagoning are disappointing behaviour by gamers.

 

[Gorbles]

It was rather unclear in your reply which parts were directed at me and which weren't. The usage of "you" was especially confusing. Regardless, it is clear that at the very least you think I'm simply dismissing criticism.

Speaking of making things out to be a larger issue than it is, that's actually my whole point. It was an evolving situation and initially people weren't clear on which version of the game was not working - there were blanket assessments given both to versions that hardly worked at all and to versions that actually do (PC and next gen consoles). Then there's the ideological stuff, which is a lot more complicated than people seem to assume (due to cultural differences, legacy of source material and existing industry standards). People are going into meme territory, posting complaints about new issues found (not bugs) in the vein of them being 'yet another problem' with the game.

As someone who's hoping the game will succeed and set a trend for good RPGs in this or related genres, this kind of sensationalisation, blanket criticism and bandwagoning are disappointing behaviour by gamers.

I'm happy to take this to PM, but once again, "blanket criticism", "sensationalism" and "bandwagoning" are not things people who aren't dismissing criticism say.

People go into meme territory over anything. For a high-profile example, Mass Effect Andromeda? For the RTS players amongst us, Dawn of War (2 and 3, to be honest) generated their fair share in that specific demographic. You're criticising human reactions but also conflating it with professional feedback and criticism. I don't know what to say to that, particularly as you seem to react badly to me saying "I think you're dismissing criticism". It is what it is. Reach out if you want to have a discussion about this, but otherwise like you yourself said - it's not worth it (in this thread).

 

[aelf]

I'm happy to take this to PM, but once again, "blanket criticism", "sensationalism" and "bandwagoning" are not things people who aren't dismissing criticism say.

People go into meme territory over anything. For a high-profile example, Mass Effect Andromeda? For the RTS players amongst us, Dawn of War (2 and 3, to be honest) generated their fair share in that specific demographic. You're criticising human reactions but also conflating it with professional feedback and criticism. I don't know what to say to that, particularly as you seem to react badly to me saying "I think you're dismissing criticism". It is what it is. Reach out if you want to have a discussion about this, but otherwise like you yourself said - it's not worth it (in this thread).

Nope, that is impugning a motive or making an accusation about my agenda, as I said.

Never did I say you couldn't criticise the game. I think there's plenty enough evidence of my stance on that, especially given that I've said it's legitimate for players to seek refunds for the game. I'm merely addressing criticism that obliterate any nuance (again, to no one here in particular). Whether they're professional critics or not is beside the point. If you don't think it's fair to expect individuals to be less ignorant in the way they talk about things, then you'll have a lot of problems when discussing political stuff - and I suspect this isn't your belief.

As long as we're clear on that.

 

[Yeekim]

Happily spreading Estonian culture and reformed Ukkonusko faith in Crusader Kings 3.
Holding off from Cyberpunk for now... at least until I can get my hands on a nice RTX2060 ... damn things seem to be out of stock everywhere.
My poor GPU is five years old and would probably explode if introduced to Cyberpunk. Hopefully they'll fix some more bugs in the meantime.

 

[Gorbles]

Nope, that is impugning a motive or making an accusation about my agenda, as I said.

Never did I say you couldn't criticise the game. I think there's plenty enough evidence of my stance on that, especially given that I've said it's legitimate for players to seek refunds for the game. I'm merely addressing criticism that obliterate any nuance (again, to no one here in particular). Whether they're professional critics or not is beside the point. If you don't think it's fair to expect individuals to be less ignorant in the way they talk about things, then you'll have a lot of problems when discussing political stuff - and I suspect this isn't your belief.

As long as we're clear on that.

Sure, alright. I challenge that there is criticism that is from a better source than a comment(s) on social media that "obliterate any nuance" (social media comments in general invariably being a race to the bottom by design of most of those kinds of platforms). I do not see journalists, or anyone of any repute really, barring some obvious satire and meme-making (that exist for all games, regardless), obliterating nuance in their discussion of the game. And this isn't for want of me looking. That's all.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

There is some sort of bug in my Fallout 4 playthrough that was preventing enemies from dropping Gauss Rifles despite being at level 75. Maybe they are tied to completing certain quests or something, I don't know. All I know is that it was a huge hole in my long-range inventory and it's been bugging me.

Well I happened to see one in the possession of Proctor Teag on the Prydwin, on a shelf behind is sales counter. I tried to steal it but failed, even with a stealth boy active. So instead I picked it up and carried it up to the upper deck of the ship (right below the air bladders) and there I was far enough away from BOS soldiers that I was able to steal it without detection. Problem solved.

I've been on a rampage across the map with it.

 

[Ajidica]

So instead I picked it up and carried it up to the upper deck of the ship (right below the air bladders) and there I was far enough away from BOS soldiers that I was able to steal it without detection. Problem solved.

Wait, Bethesda never fixed this little "feature"? At least Skyrim's head baskets was funny and meme-worthy.

Also, 75!?!?! I never got my character above 20 before I got bored with the game.

 

[aimeeandbeatles]

I tried to steal it but failed, even with a stealth boy active. So instead I picked it up and carried it up to the upper deck of the ship (right below the air bladders) and there I was far enough away from BOS soldiers that I was able to steal it without detection. Problem solved.

In Morrowind I have a mod that lets me move items around. It's meant to decorating (I also have a player house mod and have an apartment in Vivec City) but since it works in all cells it's honestly very tempting to use it for stealing....

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Wait, Bethesda never fixed this little "feature"? At least Skyrim's head baskets was funny and meme-worthy.

Also, 75!?!?! I never got my character above 20 before I got bored with the game.

75 is about average for my play throughs. This one is unique in that I have not progressed very far in any of the main faction quest lines, nor have I dove into any of the DLC missions. I've basically been pissing around the map aimlessly.

 

[Ajidica]

75 is about average for my play throughs. This one is unique in that I have not progressed very far in any of the main faction quest lines, nor have I dove into any of the DLC missions. I've basically been pissing around the map aimlessly.

I think I went far enough to do the first Brotherhood mission after visiting the Prydwin, and far enough in the main quest to visit the institute and get as a companion the synth who dressed like Sting from Lynch's Dune.
Need to play it again. Though it is fairly low in my gaming list. Need to finish up Greedfall, then might try to make a dent in Rebel Galaxy or Far Cry 3.

 

[shadowplay]

Crysis Remastered for PC. Works well on maxed out "can it run Crysis?"settings.

Playing a lot of Forza Horizon 4 on xbox one x again. One of the best driving games ever, hands down.

 

[aimeeandbeatles]

Crysis Remastered for PC. Works well on maxed out "can it run Crysis?"settings.

I read that the original Crysis can run like crap on some modern gaming PCs because it wasn't really optimized for multithreading. Does remastered fix that at all?

 

[shadowplay]

I don't know anything about that. The only issue I've had so far was a levitating North Korean soldier.

 

[Broken_Erika]

I don't know anything about that. The only issue I've had so far was a levitating North Korean soldier.

That's a feature, not a bug. The North Koreans have worked hard to develop levitation.