In which Traitorfish presages Trump's failure to understand American values.

[Cutlass]

Nearly a year ago Traitorfish posed the question:

Why aren't military parades more of a Thing in the United States? Americans love their military, or at least a lot of them do, but they don't seem to have the same traditions of marching the soldiers up and down the place, and when they do, it usually seems to be as part of a broader event that will also include fire fighters, civil society organisations and giant balloon animals. As far as I can tell, the only specifically military parade seems to be the Memorial Day event, which has as many flag-bearers, marching bands and unarmed veterans as soldiers underarms.

Is that, while Americans love their troops, they're a little suspicious of displays of military might on their home soil? Is it simply that military enthusiasm is highest in small towns, which don't tend to host large-scale parades? Or are military parades actually more of a Thing than I think they are, and they're just not something people in Unamerica hear about?

To which I gave the answer:

I think the thing is that we have the parades, in fact we have a ton of parades. But the military is only a portion of them. And we just don't actually have enough military to go around to participate in them all. For the majority of American history we had very little in the way of active duty military. After the Civil War the Army quickly shrank to about 80,000 men to cover a continent. And didn't increase again until WWI, after which it was demobilized until the eve of US entry into WWII, and then demobilized again until the Korean War. And it was only between the start of the Korean war until the end of the Cold War that the US had the kind of active duty peacetime military that is common in other countries. And so because of that our 'parade military', for lack of a better term, is some reservists, some veterans, and miscellaneous other surrogates.

For days of national parades we have Presidents Day, Memorial Day, Independence Day, Veterans Day. On any one of those days there will be many 1000s of parades across the country, as every town of any size will be having one, as well as all the cities. When you have only the skeleton of a standing army, then you get in the habit of building those parades around other things. Local high school marching bands and drill teams being a big part. And there are numerous other parade days as well, but as they aren't 'national days', there's even less of a military tradition. Thanksgiving, New Years, any number of local events. (Here we have a Hooker Day Parade).

And without a king trying to keep his barons and peasants cowed, there's a lot less call for marching the army in review. So we don't have battalions of infantry, tanks, and artillery in our parades.

But now there's Trump:

Trump Again Floats Military Parade That Pentagon Once Vetoed
President wants July 4 parade of combat hardware down Pennsylvania Avenue

The Pentagon might have vetoed President Donald Trump’s idea of parading U.S. military vehicles across the streets of Washington during his inauguration festivities. But now he’s the commander in chief and talking about holding such a show of military might on July 4.

Trump floated the idea to reporters during a meeting with French President Emmanuel Macron, whom he joined in Paris in July for that country’s Bastille Day festivities. Trump was the VIP guest on the French president’s viewing stand for a parade of French military troops and equipment.

So impressed was Trump with the Bastille Day spectacle that he revealed Monday he has asked his chief of staff, retired Marine Corps Gen. John F. Kelly, to look into planning a Bastille Day-like parade of U.S. military might on July 4.

“It was one of the greatest parades I have ever seen. It was two hours on the button and was military might,” Trump said, according to a pool report. “It was a tremendous thing for France and for the people of France. People don’t know what great warriors they are in France.”

“It was a tremendous thing, and to a large extent because of what I have seen, we may do that on July 4 down Pennsylvania Avenue in Washington,” the U.S. president said.

“We’re going to have to try and top it,” he said of the French parade. “It was really a beautiful thing to see. It was really so well done. We’re actually thinking about Fourth of July having a really great parade to show our military strength.”

He later told reporters the event might occur as soon as the next Independence Day, adding it might take another year to plan.

Defense Department officials reportedly denied a request from Trump’s transition team to include heavy military vehicles in his inaugural parade from the Capitol to the White House. A major concern was the weight of the vehicles causing structural damage to Washington’s streets.

During a January interview with The Washington Post, President-elect Trump spoke of a desire to use such a parade “to display our military.”

“That military may come marching down Pennsylvania Avenue,” he said then. “That military may be flying over New York City and Washington, D.C., for parades. I mean, we’re going to be showing our military.”

Despite the Pentagon’s rejection of the idea before Trump was sworn in, there is one big difference now: As commander in chief, he is now the country’s top military official.

I'm fairly confident in saying that any of the American presidents before Lincoln who tried this would have been assassinated, and likely would have kicked off a large scale insurrection. It never even would have occurred to Washington or Jefferson. Lincoln could only have gotten away with it once, as a victory celebration, a one off event.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

Trump needs somebody like the Roman generals did when they were given their triumphs after a great victory - a servant assigned to whisper in the general's ear at regular intervals that the general was "only human" or a mere mortal (I forget the exact phrase). The idea was that the general being honored must not let himself get carried away by the accolades and adoration of the public, lest he start to think of himself as a god or a king.

Trump needs this just on an ordinary day, let alone for any military parade stuff.

 

[GoodSarmatian]

Trump needs somebody like the Roman generals did when they were given their triumphs after a great victory - a servant assigned to whisper in the general's ear at regular intervals that the general was "only human" or a mere mortal (I forget the exact phrase). The idea was that the general being honored must not let himself get carried away by the accolades and adoration of the public, lest he start to think of himself as a god or a king.

Trump needs this just on an ordinary day, let alone for any military parade stuff.

Everyone who is born into obscene wealth and power needs this, but for Trump it's at least fifty years too late.

 

[EgonSpengler]

Trump's fascination (perhaps bordering on worship) of the military has been written about a lot. Like everything else, though, his admiration only lasts as long as it suits his immediate interest. He was fine with mocking Sen. McCain for being taken prisoner, for instance, and with criticizing the family of a US Army captain, who had been killed in combat, for their religion. I think the only American value Trump understands is making a profit on anything and everything.

 

[stinkubus]

He only goes after McCain because the hard-line R base, whose support he must retain to fade impeachment, absolutely hates that man.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

If Trump actually gets his military parade I bet it will become a permanent feature of American civic life.

I don't think the impulse against them is that ingrained to be honest. Most of the public adores the military and the associations with the USSR that parades evoke has faded from memory for most.

 

[EgonSpengler]

He only goes after McCain because the hard-line R base, whose support he must retain to fade impeachment, absolutely hates that man.

Right, exactly. It suited his purpose in the moment, so any respect for the military he might claim to have goes out the window like pee from a chamber pot.

If Trump actually gets his military parade I bet it will become a permanent feature of American civic life.

I don't think the impulse against them is that ingrained to be honest. Most of the public adores the military and the associations with the USSR that parades evoke has faded from memory for most.

I think there are many people who would be horrified by it, but it remains to be seen whether that will matter. I mean, twice in the last [edit: 5] general elections, the winner of the popular vote lost. Our country isn't really set up to serve the interests or desires of the majority of its citizens right now, so it may be immaterial what is or isn't deeply ingrained.

 

[stinkubus]

We get fly-overs from military aircraft at big sporting events. Those are sort of like military parades.

 

[warpus]

Military parades are so 80s

 

[Lexicus]

We get fly-overs from military aircraft at big sporting events. Those are sort of like military parades.

Buzz-cut Alabamians spewing colored smoke from their whizz-jets to the strains of "Rock You Like A Hurricane?" What kind of countrified rube is still impressed by that?

 

[jackelgull]

Trump's fascination (perhaps bordering on worship) of the military has been written about a lot. Like everything else, though, his admiration only lasts as long as it suits his immediate interest. He was fine with mocking Sen. McCain for being taken prisoner, for instance, and with criticizing the family of a US Army captain, who had been killed in combat, for their religion. I think the only American value Trump understands is making a profit on anything and everything.

It's the only American value that really matters anymore.

 

[sophie]

Trump needs somebody like the Roman generals did when they were given their triumphs after a great victory - a servant assigned to whisper in the general's ear at regular intervals that the general was "only human" or a mere mortal (I forget the exact phrase). The idea was that the general being honored must not let himself get carried away by the accolades and adoration of the public, lest he start to think of himself as a god or a king.

Trump needs this just on an ordinary day, let alone for any military parade stuff.

The exact phrase is "memento mori", which, essentially translates to "Remember [that you will] die [someday]"

Although considering that the emperors were believed and legally decreed to become actual literal immortal gods upon death, it doesn't seem like that practice worked out too well.

 

[Farm Boy]

Buzz-cut Alabamians spewing colored smoke from their whizz-jets to the strains of "Rock You Like A Hurricane?" What kind of countrified rube is still impressed by that?

Thank you for the immediate reminder of why visiting this place is dumb. But since you seem to be asking a legitimate question, while I'm a bigger fan of the brass section, here you go:

Spoiler higher quality company :

 

[Lexicus]

Although considering that the emperors were believed and legally decreed to become actual literal immortal gods upon death, it doesn't seem like that practice worked out too well.

There is a scene in the final installment of Robert Harris' Cicero trilogy, in which Caesar (Dictator by this time in the series, having won his civil war) comes to Cicero's villa for dinner, and the two are discussing philosophy. The question comes up of what happens after death, and Caesar says, perfectly serious, that he doesn't know what happens to other people but that he would certainly live on after death as he was a god. "In that moment," says Cicero, "I ceased to envy him all his power and glory. It has driven him mad."

Thank you for the immediate reminder of why visiting this place is dumb. But since you seem to be asking a legitimate question, while I'm a bigger fan of the brass section, here you go:

 

[warpus]

All that for 11 minutes of action

 

[Valka D'Ur]

The exact phrase is "memento mori", which, essentially translates to "Remember [that you will] die [someday]"

Thanks for explaining. I knew it was something to do with death, but couldn't remember.

Although considering that the emperors were believed and legally decreed to become actual literal immortal gods upon death, it doesn't seem like that practice worked out too well.

I seem to recall reading that Tiberius specifically stated that he did not want to be deified after his death. Augustus and Claudius were deified, Caligula deified himself while he was still alive, and I'm not sure about Nero. This emperor-as-god thing would have stopped after Christianity became the official religion, I should think.

 

[stinkubus]

Buzz-cut Alabamians spewing colored smoke from their whizz-jets to the strains of "Rock You Like A Hurricane?" What kind of countrified rube is still impressed by that?

At least 40% of Americans

For the sake of completeness I would like to point out the the DoD pays big money to insert the "Support our Troops" type messages into sporting and other events.

 

[EnglishEdward]

Thank you for the immediate reminder of why visiting this place is dumb. But since you seem to be asking a legitimate question, while I'm a bigger fan of the brass section, here you go:

Spoiler higher quality company :

Excellent answer.

But for many of my generation of Brits the sight of Neil and Buzz walking up there
simply obviated the need for further USA parades to impress other nations.

 

[Traitorfish]

soldiers underarms

hey so for the record i'm pretty sure i meant "dudes with guns" and not "servicemen's armpits", in case that wasn't clear.

 

[Zkribbler]

We get fly-overs from military aircraft at big sporting events. Those are sort of like military parades.

They always give me the heebee jeebies, and they are a waste of taxpayers money.