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In which we give real-world justification for Civ V's game mechanics

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by SS-18 ICBM, Oct 21, 2010.

  1. Centurio

    Centurio Warlord

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    Roman soldiers are the only soldiers in the world who can operate the mysterious 'shovel' device with which to build roads... until they are upgraded, at which point the arcane secret of shovel-use is lost forever...
     
  2. stormerne

    stormerne is just a Retired Moderator

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    I know the OP wanted a balance of serious answers, but I wonder whether the difficulty we are having with proposing a plausible explanation of, say, why wonders work the way they do in Civ5 is that they're largely arbitrary and that any proposal for their mechanics is more often than not likely to stretch credulity beyond breaking point.
     
  3. Valdyr

    Valdyr Warlord

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    The Taliban supported bin Laden, but they're not "his"; the organization he fronts is al Qaeda. Anyway, US forces definitely would have killed him if he were sailing around off the coast of a major American city in a wooden, oar-propelled sailing vessel from classical Greece. :lol:
     
  4. dexters

    dexters Gods & Emperors Supporter

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    True. I'm in favour of rebalancing naval combat to be have era specific bonuses, so modern era units don't take so damn long to kill frigates. the current system overpowers every naval unit and underpowers them at the same time.

    But as an abstraction, it's not absurb. Al Qaeda is like that galley that keeps getting into range and retreating (asymmetric tactics of warfare) so much so you're afraid to disembark your units for fear they will be lost.

    But generally i support an overhaul of the barb camp system in Civ5. But that's for the ideas and suggestion forum.
     
  5. Valdyr

    Valdyr Warlord

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    There's only so far I'm willing to go with abstraction. Obviously "gold" is intended to represent something besides a unified world currency consisting of gold coins, and the game time isn't literal because it wouldn't take several years for a unit to move a few miles across the landscape even in the days before wheels were invented.

    I tend to see military units as representing exactly what they appear to represent aside from the obvious fact that it's not literally just a group of 10 guys with rifles vs. 10 other guys with rifles. A unit of Infantry represents to me companies of riflemen, machine gunners, designated marksmen and all the associated logistics people like radio and supply personnel. A Jet Fighter is a wing of, well, jet fighters, their pilots, and support personnel to store, repair/maintain the aircraft.

    I don't just see these things as amorphous representations of "fighting power", and I don't think they're intended to be viewed as such. Otherwise, units would be a lot more generic and similar in the things that they can do, I think. That's my opinion at any rate.

    Back on topic: Trading Posts give +1 Science with the Rationalism policy tree because your nation's focus on science is such that they all have coffee shops with free wi-fi, so government officials can just research how technology works on Wikipedia. :lol:
     
  6. dexters

    dexters Gods & Emperors Supporter

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    Trading posts in Civ5 as a general idea was poorly implemented. And based on the art available, circus tent and ugly ass mass of buildings, it seemed incomplete

    I'd prefer something that changes by era in which case, a renaissance era trading post wouldn't be a trading post, but something like an augmentable population centre, similar to how cottages worked.
     
  7. No_such_reality

    No_such_reality Chieftain

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    Yes, the AI interaction is completely realistic. You're just not thinking correctly. To understand the AI, you have to have the right frame of reference.

    If you're in the lead, then the AI behaves like you are the modern day USA and the AI are Kim Il Jong, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, Chavez, 80s era Leonid Brezhnev, Qaddafi, and Saddam Hussein.

    If you are behind, then the AI acts you're a resource rich part of Africa and they are colonial Europe and if you make it to further to the industrial or modern age, then you're a resource rich backwater and they are the USSR or USA in the 80s.
     
  8. r_rolo1

    r_rolo1 King of myself

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    No ;)

    In fact , the closest thing that appeard in History close of the current AI behavior is Genghis Khan mongols ( that, to add injury to shame , are not even in the game ): if it resists, raze , if it pays let live, and in doubt raze to make place for pasture for horses. Oh, and ask the surrender of people living in the other side of the continent.

    You have to agree that this is not the standart template for international relations in any time of the known History :D
     
  9. ICanHasName?

    ICanHasName? Warlord

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    I think the logic behind 1 Unit Per Tile is that in terms of cities and strategy each hex represents hundreds of kilometers while for units and tactics each hex represents a much smaller area. Its like how a turn represents several years worth of your civilizations development, but your warrior can only move from one edge of a city to the other in that time because for a military unit a turn represents a couple days of walking.

    And the poor AI is a realistic representation of governance by politicians, monarchs, dictators etc :D How to government?

    edit: ninja'd XD
     
  10. Rohili

    Rohili King

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    Land units, even in the modern age, cross the ocean in fragile rafts. That's why a barbarian galley can come out of nowhere and OHKO an embarked GDR.
     
  11. snarzberry

    snarzberry Emperor

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    Ancient mysterious race who appear to have knowledge of the location of Atlantis as they've left me a map of the ocean in their ruins.
     
  12. Louis XXIV

    Louis XXIV Le Roi Soleil

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    To be fair here, we have a navy that actively seeks out piracy and stops it. Granted, it probably wouldn't come to the United States any time soon, but I could see them raiding small Indonesian cities or preying on ships that leave the harbor if the navy wasn't there (it's the embargoes that are always more annoying from barb ships anyway).
     
  13. risikawi

    risikawi Chieftain

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    I'd say it is the other way around (i.e. they are USA and you are Kim Jong Il), considering all complaining about warmogering when they are doing exactly the same and especialy considering that nuking them wouldn't hurt your conscience

    How about this - even though you are one of the first civilizations in the world you can find ancient ruins of civilization that apparently has been more advanced than you (clearly aliens exist). And if you are Iroquois who knows any forest as back of your hand you suddenly lose that capability when you step over your borders. The most realistic thing so far - when I decided that it was time for age of discovery, I sailed west and discovered America, who turned out to be primitive savages armed with pointy sticks (oh, and that too was when I played Iroquois). Plus - have you ever seen a trading post in real life ?
     
  14. Peng Qi

    Peng Qi Emperor

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    Irrelevant.
    The Pyramids are like granaries because...sandwich?

    The Hanging Gardens makes your civilization more healthy because...turtles?

    The Great Lighthouse affects all your naval units on the entire planet because...it's so big you can see its light from across the world?

    The Great Wall forces your enemies to offer peace because...it will eat their babies if they don't?

    Traveling around the world in a boat makes your boats faster because...ninjas?

    Wonders have never made sense. Give it up; you can't blame every little inconsistency that has ever been in a Civ game on Civ V.
     
  15. Louis XXIV

    Louis XXIV Le Roi Soleil

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    Yeah, pretty much. The best you can do is find the reference they're making (Pyramids giving granaries because Egypt was famous for agriculture and having granaries). But it's not like they kept grain with the dead Pharaohs in their tombs.
     
  16. masterminded

    masterminded Chieftain

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    Theaters provide happiness because people love celebrities, but Opera Houses provide culture because the masses never visit them.
     
  17. SS-18 ICBM

    SS-18 ICBM Oscillator

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    His answers are fine too. As long as they don't overwhelm the thread. :)

    And he is right. With how Horsemen are now, I'd bet they do have Pegasi as their mounts.
     
  18. Craftsman

    Craftsman Chieftain

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    :lol:

    That's because the people are just like the barbarians above. :mischief: :lol:

    My two cents... The "magic food" got from maritime City States comes from Star Trek-like replicators. :D
     
  19. dexters

    dexters Gods & Emperors Supporter

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    Right, the Golden Age of Egypt under the New Kingdom saw the creation of various monuments that were not the Pyramids.

    The Pyramids were infact built in the old Kingdom and by the time of Tutmoses and Ramses they were over 1,000 years old.

    Tomb robbery had forced most Pharaohs of the golden age Egypt to build secret tombs in the valley of the kings.

    It's fascinating how we sort of jumble all of Egyptian history into one large mess. The Obelisk (not directly mentioned in Civ5, but shown as the monument) is probably as impressive an architectural feat as the Pyramids, yet it rarely is considered a wonder. Those things are made out of a solid piece of stone.

    And to return on point, none of the wonders in any Civ game have really very good historical grasp. Many wonders were built as a result of a golden age, yet in recent times, wonders like the Taj Mahal (or in Civ3, building a certain combination of wonders) tend to trigger Golden Ages. That's like putting the cart before the horse.
     
  20. Grimberht

    Grimberht Chieftain

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    But the US didnt nuked them... yet!
     

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