Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by LikeMike, Aug 4, 2013.
Exactly why I hate going wide with them
So? You're still not forced to go tall with India. It won't take long for that UA to give more happiness than it takes and then you can spread very effectively.
1. Big Religion: Ethiopia, Maya, Arabia. Byzantium is overrated. You often can't found a religion with the Byzantines on Immortal and up. And even when you do found a religion, you don't get any bonuses to religious spread, and you’re not likely to have your pick of beliefs. Maya is underrated. You want to spam pyramids anyway, and the free GP that Maya get don't reset your faith counter, so they're worth potentially thousands of faith each.
2. Wide Empire: Maya, Carthage, Inca. Maya is obvious (pyramids). Carthage is the king of wide on island maps, because you instantly get harbor bonuses for free when you build a new city. Inca are underrated for wide: half maintenance or free roads are really great for a sprawling empire, and you can settle land that would otherwise be marginal (terrace farms), which gives you more choices for new cities.
3. Tall Empire: Aztecs, Venice, India, Inca. All are self-explanatory. My favorite is the Aztecs for that sweet, sweet, floating garden.
4. Economy: Portugal, Venice, Arabia, Morocco. Nau spam will probably be nerfed (or it should be), but until then, it's an endless supply of gold, influence, etc.
5. Culture Win: Siam, Aztecs. Aztec cultural victory is really fun: kill, kill, kill! You probably can't get enough culture from the Aztec UA on lower difficulties, because the AI doesn't spam units. [Edit: I'm kind of stuck in the past here. You can ignore this. I haven't done cultural victory in BNW yet.]
6. Diplomatic win: Venice, Sweden. Meh, dull victory type.
7. All out war: China, Mongolia, Zulu, Huns, Assyria, Aztecs, Inca. Inca seems like the odd man out, but their hill bias gives them solid war production, and every one of their units move at normal speed through mountains, which means that you can get an archer onto a hill and fire on the same turn.
8. Science Leader: Babylon, Korea, Maya. Babylon is probably the strongest, but they also get my vote for the most boring civ in the game. Science also gets my vote for the most boring victory. Yay, I sent a spaceship to outer space, now the world must bow before me. What?
9. Going Naval with lots of "colonies": Carthage, Carthage, Carthage, and Carthage. Polynesia gets an early exploration edge, and Indonesia gets some bonus happiness, but did I mention that Carthage gets a completely free harbor immediately after you build a city? That's two happiness (with liberty and exploration), free gold (three a piece from lack of maintenance), extra hammers, and a city connection. That's insane, and you get it immediately upon building the city.
10. Building every wonder - well almost: Meh, I guess the science guys are going to have an edge here. Egypt also has that silly wonder bonus (Egypt's UA is mediocre, although burial tombs are really great now).
It's easier now that Piety is available from the start, no?
Agree on this, high productivity isn´t a bad thing though Managed to get a great start with Babylon just now and won science victory on immortal, got Writing, planted my GS and since i had loads of desert/hills around me i decided to go for Petra.. when that was done i managed to get about 80% of all available wonders.. alot of the most important ones (skipped great library though since i never manage to get that.. Never got more than 3 cities but was enough by far, 35/23/22 population by the end if i remember correctly
I was aiming for science from start but i probably couldvé gotten Culture/diplo as well had i wanted to.. just built all those Culture wonders to protect me from Brazil getting Culture victory and i only got attacked once which was easily diverted with my infantry vs rifleman got my nukes later and everyone was to afraid to do me any more harm
So Babylon with petra = great for whatever u wanna do, could probs do domination as well but then you´d probably have to skip a few wonders along the way to manage some troops.
1. Big Religion - Ethiopia.
2. Wide Empire - Egypt, or Ethiopia if going Big Religion.
3. Tall Empire - Babylon.
4. Economy - Arabia.
5. Culture Win - Babylon.
6. Diplomatic win - Babylon.
7. All out war - Babylon.
8. Science Leader - America. Just kidding; Babylon.
9. Going Naval with lots of "colonies" - Babylon.
10. Building every wonder - Babylon.
Harbors don't give hammers post-BNW, it was moved to the lighthouse.
Dang it. I really am living in the past. Oh well.
Feels the other way around the AI often goes piety and takes a religion even faster since they already have pottery from the start without a single day of research.
1. Big Religion - Celts, Byzantium, and if the dice love you Spain.
Byzantium - kind of - but if you don't get a religion and everyone else does you may as well restart. Her's will be big though. Anyone with a desert bias is going to be good at religion also. If the dice are in your favor though Spain will destroy religion. Because of the UU though I like the Celts. Kill as much as you can while you have your UU. People worry too much about how quickly the UA wears off the second you touch a tree and don't take joy in how the UU just got them a religion while being amazing.
2. Wide Empire - Celts, Egypt
Late game happiness matters now and religion happiness isn't as powerful as it was. Celts have a +3 Happy building. Egypt has maintenance free +2 happiness temples. Both of these civs are also reasonably good at getting a religion for the +0.5 happiness per city with your religion and other happiness bonuses like the pagoda.
I just always felt the Stele is drastically over rated. It's just +2 faith could make up for that in a billion ways that don't delete my UA.
3. Tall Empire - India, Korea, and sometimes Inca
When going tall nothing matters more then food but we now have carts. India can spam carts at all it's cities and not worry about happiness when the capital has a population of 50+. Korea will get more out of it's specialists then any other civ though when they become tall. +2 science a specialist is nothing to sneeze at and the great person tiles don't increase when you go wide so tall it is for Korea. Inca, if they have a good mountain hill setup, can produce mad food in the right setup and then leave the trade routes for money and hammers.
4. Economy - Venice
Venice hands down. No one has nearly the money Venice has.
Portugal is a distant second place and more flexible otherwise.
5. Culture Win - Brazil
The french Chateau is good and the Moai is also great with hotels but the combination of Brazil's crazy UA and Brazil wood camps in a nice jungle is instant win while the other civs just which they could come close. Then the UU even helps you blast your UA more often. Brasil just has the best synergy all for a culture win.
6. Diplomatic win - Venice, Greece
Venice is good at diplomacy because of infinite money, but Greece still takes city state favor lost down to nearly zero especially if Greece gets a good religion.
7. All out war - Assyria, Huns, Ottoman, Mongolia, China, ... maybe the game is a bit heavy on civs that are great at domination.
This game is flooded with well made conquest civs. In the water Suleiman is pretty unbeatable but on land China and the Mongols are both amazing. Assyria and the Huns both have amazing starts and Assyria will use his to catch the AI's early tech advantage.
8. Science Leader - Korea
Babylon early game and Korea late game. If going for a science win you will end up better off as Korea though because we are defining late game by what techs you have.
9. Going Naval with lots of "colonies" - Indonesia maybe. I'm not sure what this means by "colonies".
10. Building every wonder - Egypt, Babylon, and Korea.
It's kind of Egypt's thing. Babylon and Korea get the most important thing for wonders past ancient though. A science boost so they can get the tech first and work on them first.
I'm going to give suggestions that are certainly not optimized, but I had the most fun doing.
1: Religion: Byzantium. Having two enhancer beliefs enables you to do some unique things. I enjoyed playing with both Religious Texts and Holy War (or whatever gives you combat bonuses with foreign cities following your religion) and did a religious domination victory. I'm sure there'd be other interesting combinations to use as well.
2: Wide: I don't know, I've had a hard time finding fun things to do with wide unless I'm conquering.
3: Tall: I generally go tall with whatever Im playing, but Aztecs are great fun with the UB, with culture from killing units. Just stay in a perpetual war, raze cities that get too close, and rake in the culture.
4: Economy: Portugal. Everything is geared toward gold and luxuries. Build a feitoria on every city-state and youre sitting at 60+ happiness with a massive trade empire. The Nau is just a nice added bonus and extra encouragement to explore as soon as possible.
5: Culture: France. When combined with aesthetics, your capital ends up producing just insane amount of culture/tourism if you grab the right wonders.
6: Diplomatic: Maybe Morocco. Not specifically geared well toward the victory condition, but having other civs trade with you helps to encourage good relations. Ive actually never played Sweden, but that may be fun with the tangible GP benefit from DoFs.
7: War: Zulu. Combined with the right policies, you will end up with an army nearly maxed out on promotions.
8: Science: Korea. Settle next to a mountain for observatory, gear your social policies to specialists, great persons, and growth, youll produce more science in one city than the rest of the world combined.
9: Naval: I want to say Ottomans. With the UA you can amass a large navy very quickly. Its also a pleasure to see your navy capture your enemys. It can lead to a nice snowball effect.
10: Wonders: Yeah
probably Korea again.
Even if they don't, 2 natural wonders ends up being 16 faith/turn from the one with nature or whatever it was called pantheon.
1. Big Religion: Maya, Ethiopia.
2. Wide Empire: Maya, Ethiopia.
3. Tall Empire: Inca, Aztecs.
4. Economy: Venice, Morocco.
5. Culture Win: Brazil, France.
6. Diplomatic win: Venice, Morocco (diplo win IS economy so yeah)
7. All out war: Wars from start finish would be Assyria and Zulu. If you want to build up first I'd recommend someone with a strong Cavalry UU that can be upgraded into killer autocratic tanks, like Russia or the Shoshone.
8. Science Leader: Korea, Maya, Babylon.
9. Going Naval with lots of "colonies": England, Portugal.
10. Building every wonder - well almost: Maya, Egypt.
1. Big Religion. immortal- Byzantia, deity Ethiopia, Celts.
2. Wide Empire. Maya.
3. Tall Empire. immortal- Egypt, deity India
4. Economy. Venice
5. Culture Win. immortal- Brazil, deity Ethiopia
6. Diplomatic win. Greece
7. All out war. imoortal- Assiria. deity China
8. Science Leader. Korea
9. Going Naval with lots of "colonies". Turkey, Portugal, Carthage.
10. Building every wonder - well almost. Egypt.
Religion: Ethiopia. They have the largest faith output of any civ, and this results in them fouding a religion before anyone else can in at least 90% of the games they're in. Because they can found their religion first, they can customize it to their needs and on top of that, can spread it more easily because of the enormous faith production. No other Civ has that big of an advantage. Not even Byzantium.
Wide Civ: Any Civ that had a direct advantage in expanding. Ethiopia, Iroquois, Rome, Inca, and Celts/Egypt/Persia (+2/3 per city) benefit the most from having a large empire.
Tall Civ: Venice lol. I never play tall because I always play on huge maps. Babylon/Brazil/India however are also specifically designed as tall civs, so them + venice i guess.
Economy: Venice, by far if you can set up their economy properly (which does take more time than usual).
Culture Victory: Whichever Civ has that reformation belief that provides +2 per building you buy with faith. Otherwise, Brazil, easily.
Diplomatic Victory: Greece, because they tend to have the most votes in the World Congress. Sweden because of their huge advantage in diplomacy. Arabia because of their ability to spread their religion insanely quickly (therefore, converting the pagan civs very easily) through trading.
Warfare: The Zulu. I don't need to explain this. However, if played correctly tiny VENICE can be a very dangerous warmonger since they can afford the largest army by far with all their trade routes.
Technology: Korea. By far the best tech'ers in the game. If they can align with Maritime City States, a Wide Siam can match them though.
Naval with lots of Colonies: Indonesia comes to mind, since they actually benefit greatly from colonies. Also, CARTHAGE. In terms of pure Naval Power, England and Songhai are the most powerful.
Wonders: Egypt, but also the Iroquois and Russia with their huge advantages in production.
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