tu_79
Deity
Keeping the Terrace Farm makes Inca still dependent on hills. But if they have some other ability, you wouldn't mind so much those sheep, because you could settle outside the hilly region and benefit from something.
Inca
- Thread starter Damirith
- Start date
Keeping the Terrace Farm makes Inca still dependent on hills. But if they have some other ability, you wouldn't mind so much those sheep, because you could settle outside the hilly region and benefit from something.
If people think the Inca are underpowered then I think it would be nice to give a general ability (non-hill dependent) and maybe also boost the production from mountain-adjacent hills.
a. +1 gold from all pastures [Incans famous for gold; non-hill dependent; consolation for sheep on hill].
b. +1 food, +1 production for each adjacent mountain to a terrace farm, rather than just +1 food. [strengthens terrace farms; removes silliness of desert hill clusters being the ideal terrace farm locations on many maps].
tu_79
Deity
For clarity,
UA: Andean Road, Can pass over and build roads on mountains. Investing in buildings grants 1 turn of WLTKD in the city, 2 if Wonders.
UU: Slinger: Hit twice / +20%CS against units on lower terrain (keep on upgrade).
UI: Terrace Farm, build on hills, same movement cost as flat lands. Gets 1 gold per adjacent mountain and 1 production per adjacent improved resource, grants 1 food to adjacent farms and terrace farms.
I think this sums up everything about real Inca. The famous farms are there giving extra food, the mountains are there giving extra gold and people are happy with their ruler. They still performs better in hilly regions, and slingers can shoot from mountains.
UA: Andean Road, Can pass over and build roads on mountains. Investing in buildings grants 1 turn of WLTKD in the city, 2 if Wonders.
UU: Slinger: Hit twice / +20%CS against units on lower terrain (keep on upgrade).
UI: Terrace Farm, build on hills, same movement cost as flat lands. Gets 1 gold per adjacent mountain and 1 production per adjacent improved resource, grants 1 food to adjacent farms and terrace farms.
I think this sums up everything about real Inca. The famous farms are there giving extra food, the mountains are there giving extra gold and people are happy with their ruler. They still performs better in hilly regions, and slingers can shoot from mountains.
thunderbird_14
Prince
Kinda pedantic but Incas were not a peace super lover, after all, they did create one of the biggest empires in America through warfare and diplomacy. (A response to what you said: "That Incas were super peaceful")
matlajs
King
- Joined
- Nov 1, 2015
- Messages
- 807
rly doubt anyone would want play with this ua unless you are already Colossus Venice and even with it, its still useless untill industry branch.
matlajs
King
- Joined
- Nov 1, 2015
- Messages
- 807
slinger- same like now
terrace farm-same like now
ua- all mountain tilles yield 3F/3G/3P no matter adjacency, can pass mountains,build roads on them but cannot settle on them.
So you get some early super tilles to work, but still need to buy them if you want to do so and leave hills arround them for terraces.
terrace farm-same like now
ua- all mountain tilles yield 3F/3G/3P no matter adjacency, can pass mountains,build roads on them but cannot settle on them.
So you get some early super tilles to work, but still need to buy them if you want to do so and leave hills arround them for terraces.
Inca 3.0
Unique Unit: Slinger - Can't think of any meaningful change, but perhaps there should be one?
Unique Ability: Same as now except:
1. All mountain-tiles count as 3F/3G (no matter adjacency) and gets stronger as era goes on.
Mountains start out as good food/gold tiles no matter how they are located, and keep up with regular improvements over the course of the game.
2. Cities founded on mountains starts with +1 culture
The ability to start on a mountain is pretty fun, but I think there should be more incentive towards it(especially with mountains being decent workable tiles), as it is now if I have to choose between settling on a mountain or settling on a river I'm going to settle on the river every time (Yes I'm aware that there are river-mountain tiles, but they aren't exactly common enough to work their way into this).
Unique Improvement: Terrace Farm
Can only be built on hills, unlocked at Construction.
+1Food, +1Culture base
+1F/C if adjacent to a mountain(Not for every mountain, A mountain).
+1F at Engineering
+1F at Economics
+1F at Fertilizer
(+ something else later on, I usually stop caring before I reach those eras so I don't know where to Place anything)
The idea here is to make a tile that is pretty decent, a sidegrade compared to a mine, but some easy access to culture early on. If built next to a mountain the improvement becomes a really strong tile, far better than any alternative.
The tile grows in food as the eras goes on, keeping up regular improvements.
An alternative could be removing the ability to build terrace-farms adjacent to each other and instead making the yields they provide more interesting (making TFs without mountains better than mines), but I don't really feel like writing specifics down.
Unique Unit: Slinger - Can't think of any meaningful change, but perhaps there should be one?
Unique Ability: Same as now except:
1. All mountain-tiles count as 3F/3G (no matter adjacency) and gets stronger as era goes on.
Mountains start out as good food/gold tiles no matter how they are located, and keep up with regular improvements over the course of the game.
2. Cities founded on mountains starts with +1 culture
The ability to start on a mountain is pretty fun, but I think there should be more incentive towards it(especially with mountains being decent workable tiles), as it is now if I have to choose between settling on a mountain or settling on a river I'm going to settle on the river every time (Yes I'm aware that there are river-mountain tiles, but they aren't exactly common enough to work their way into this).
Unique Improvement: Terrace Farm
Can only be built on hills, unlocked at Construction.
+1Food, +1Culture base
+1F/C if adjacent to a mountain(Not for every mountain, A mountain).
+1F at Engineering
+1F at Economics
+1F at Fertilizer
(+ something else later on, I usually stop caring before I reach those eras so I don't know where to Place anything)
The idea here is to make a tile that is pretty decent, a sidegrade compared to a mine, but some easy access to culture early on. If built next to a mountain the improvement becomes a really strong tile, far better than any alternative.
The tile grows in food as the eras goes on, keeping up regular improvements.
An alternative could be removing the ability to build terrace-farms adjacent to each other and instead making the yields they provide more interesting (making TFs without mountains better than mines), but I don't really feel like writing specifics down.
tu_79
Deity
Excuse me, isn't this as boring as other proposals? You are giving advantages for being on a mountain, and then for being in hills (that are just next to mountains). Both are terrain bonuses. In a way, you are proposing that mountains are treated like hills, only with extra yields for the simple reason that you don't know if mountains can be improved with workers. And that idea you rejected before arguing that it was boring.
At least with the extra turns of WLTKD you have something different that fits with the theme and has nothing to do with mountains or hills. Although I admit that triggering with building investment focus it too much in Industry (China's UA makes her focus on Tradition). I'm open to any other triggers, but not based on units (they are rather pacific) or GP (that's China). Maybe on growth. One or two turns of WLTKD whenever a citizen is born.
For terrace farm, giving extra flat bonus and less for adjacency lessens the pain for not being able to place them together, but it also reduces the uniqueness of trying to place them together. It just seemed right that it worked more or less like a farm.
At least with the extra turns of WLTKD you have something different that fits with the theme and has nothing to do with mountains or hills. Although I admit that triggering with building investment focus it too much in Industry (China's UA makes her focus on Tradition). I'm open to any other triggers, but not based on units (they are rather pacific) or GP (that's China). Maybe on growth. One or two turns of WLTKD whenever a citizen is born.
For terrace farm, giving extra flat bonus and less for adjacency lessens the pain for not being able to place them together, but it also reduces the uniqueness of trying to place them together. It just seemed right that it worked more or less like a farm.
I didn't reject it, I purposely ignored it because it bored me. Then you called me out and asked for my opinion, so I responded by giving some excuses and then moving on.
tu_79
Deity
As polite as always
EDIT: It bored you so much that you ended up proposing something similar.
As polite as always
EDIT: It bored you so much that you ended up proposing something similar.
Not similar in any way at all.
My suggestion is pretty much exactly how the UI looked before the last rework, with adjustment for single mountains and techscaling.
EDIT: And about the politeness, I was politely ignoring it until you asked for a response.
tu_79
Deity
Well then, let discuss how Inca 3.0 improves Inca 2.0.
Mountains give 3f3g each one. I suppose you have to work them. How this compares to current +1 gold for every mountain in range without having to work them? It's a good tile to work early on, granting basically extra 3g to usually 2-3 city workers (3f is a farm on grass), while the other was just extra gold. But it happens that the same mountain can be shared by 2 cities, making that yield double good as it looks. Otoh, settling on a mountain frees this worker, and this is basically 3 extra gold. On the fun part, looking for mountains and placing workers seems more fun than just looking for mountains, but with automated workers placement there isn't much difference. Settling on a good mountain tile can be, though, as it is a more feasible action. I have to say that I like it more than current one, but the final outcome is the same: extra gold when settling near mountains.
Now, Terrace Farm. I like the concept of extra X if Y. It's like fresh water, you can build some things when there is fresh water. So, extra food and culture if there is at least an adjacent mountain solves some problems. It's like having long/short rivers, you don't care much as long as you can settle on the river. And this behaves better with the naughty sheep. Still, I dislike removing the bonus to adjacent farms. This wasn't the problem. It made TF feel like a farm. About TF yielding culture, I'm not sure. There are already 2 UI that yields culture (moai, chateau). The flat production bonus was well enough, so we don't regret not building mines.
To me, the weak point of all this is that everything is terrain focused. Miss mountains and Inca is the worst. Have some mountains and Inca is just a little better.
Mountains give 3f3g each one. I suppose you have to work them. How this compares to current +1 gold for every mountain in range without having to work them? It's a good tile to work early on, granting basically extra 3g to usually 2-3 city workers (3f is a farm on grass), while the other was just extra gold. But it happens that the same mountain can be shared by 2 cities, making that yield double good as it looks. Otoh, settling on a mountain frees this worker, and this is basically 3 extra gold. On the fun part, looking for mountains and placing workers seems more fun than just looking for mountains, but with automated workers placement there isn't much difference. Settling on a good mountain tile can be, though, as it is a more feasible action. I have to say that I like it more than current one, but the final outcome is the same: extra gold when settling near mountains.
Now, Terrace Farm. I like the concept of extra X if Y. It's like fresh water, you can build some things when there is fresh water. So, extra food and culture if there is at least an adjacent mountain solves some problems. It's like having long/short rivers, you don't care much as long as you can settle on the river. And this behaves better with the naughty sheep. Still, I dislike removing the bonus to adjacent farms. This wasn't the problem. It made TF feel like a farm. About TF yielding culture, I'm not sure. There are already 2 UI that yields culture (moai, chateau). The flat production bonus was well enough, so we don't regret not building mines.
To me, the weak point of all this is that everything is terrain focused. Miss mountains and Inca is the worst. Have some mountains and Inca is just a little better.
Ehm, 2.0 is the current ingame version. 1.0 was the one we had before the remake
tu_79
Deity
The one that is in the wiki is version 1.0 or 2.0?
Probably 2.0? I'm guessing the one in the wiki is the one that's ingame at the moment.
All I'm trying to say is that I'm not building upon, or skipping forward from or anything like that with your suggestion. I haven't put a number on that one.
I also guess I have to make it clear that this was not the 3.0, this was a suggestion for a 3.0.
tu_79
Deity
I think Terrace Farm can be left like this:
TF: +1
. +2 
if there is (at least) one adjacent mountain. Gives +1 to adjacent farms and terrace farms. Begin at Construction. +1 
at Engineering, +1 at Fertilizer.
So we relieve the gold from mountains that the UA gave and put it in the Terrace Farm. And we can find another UA not dependent on mountains.
TF: +1
. +2 if there is (at least) one adjacent mountain. Gives +1 to adjacent farms and terrace farms. Begin at Construction. +1 at Engineering, +1 at Fertilizer.So we relieve the gold from mountains that the UA gave and put it in the Terrace Farm. And we can find another UA not dependent on mountains.
The Inca do not need a total rework. Just some number tweaks.
tu_79
Deity
That's plan A: let the terrace farm be built over sheep. Expect future complains.
Not going to allow that for the UI.
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