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? inciting antagonism between other civ's

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Strategy & Tips' started by Cactus Pete, Jun 23, 2005.

  1. Cactus Pete

    Cactus Pete Deity GOTM Staff

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    Can someone please direct me to a discussion on how to encourage other civ's to go to war against each other?
     
  2. Pentium

    Pentium Digital Matter

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    Here is the War academy article about that.

    Edit: Here is the discussion.
     
  3. Cactus Pete

    Cactus Pete Deity GOTM Staff

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    Thanks for the direction. I read both the article and the discussion. Neither really answers my main concerns, which are how to incite the AI against one another and what circumstances make it easier to do so, not why it might be desirable or what perils it entails. Is it just a matter of offering enough in gold or techs?
     
  4. megaclom

    megaclom Chieftain

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    This worked to some extent. If your in monarchy, and other civs are too far away to do anything about, try the following: I was Rome maybe, the Iriqu, Aztecs and Americans (in the new world) were just getting bigger and bigger and they were not fighting at all. So I declared war on the Americans and got the Aztecs and Iriqu to join me. The three of them fought it out for centuries. Same for Egypt and the Zulus, got them fighting, then they continued to fight for about fifteen-hundred years. Seems this is a good way to get AI civs to weaken one another without having to get involved. Won't be possible in Rep. or Demo, and if you don't join in the war, I believe it will damage your reputation. However it seems like a good idea to have AIs waring eachother, as after tactics, Civ is really a game of economy, so having the AI burn production up with units lost to one another ought to be beneficial
     
  5. rysingsun

    rysingsun King

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    the way NOT to do it is MPPs.

    the way to do it is generally to declare war on someone remote and then to pay other civs to join an alliance against him. after you do this a few times their reputations suffer enough that they tend to just do it on their own. just make sure you arent breaking any deals when declaring war. do not think of it as a "failure" just because they make peace before 20 turns are up. just buy them off once again. dont worry too much about the cost of the alliances. the losses they suffer from war weariness, loss of units, collateral damage, lack of ability to trade luxuries, lack of ability to trade tech and so on are far greater than what you will suffer from the cost of alliances.
     
  6. Cactus Pete

    Cactus Pete Deity GOTM Staff

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    That's really helpful. :) Any other such info would be appreciated.
     
  7. RickiusMaximus

    RickiusMaximus Chieftain

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    Cities are the key to starting wars

    When an AI civ loses a city they go hell for leather to capture it again- all you have to do is capture an enemy city and then give it to another nation. When the AI arrives to take back the city they will attack whoever owns it thus starting a war with another AI nation.

    The only drawback to this tactic is that you have to declare war to take the city, you can avoid this problem by going though one civs terrain and attack someone on their far side.
    Once you have taken a city and give it away to the civ whos terrain you traversed the two will start fighting. As the nation that is hostile to you is on the far side of the nation you traversed there is little chance they will be able to attack you.
    As the two nations fight it out you can attack the nearest one forcing him to fight a battle on two fronts.
     
  8. Cactus Pete

    Cactus Pete Deity GOTM Staff

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    That's clever. How much of a probem is it to then make peace with the civ whose city you captured and then gave away?
     
  9. Own

    Own Grasshoppah

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    I would like to know how to get 2 civs to fight eachother via non-MA. I don't want to be involved.
     
  10. RickiusMaximus

    RickiusMaximus Chieftain

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    It all depends who you declared war on to get the city, and how close a match a battle between the two AIs is.

    If you get the two civs into an almighty battle then after they beat the tar out of each other they will be ready to make peace as they will be weakened and looking for allies.

    Also you can become quite an efficient 'war profiteer' trading between the two of them.


    Alternativly if you couldnt possibly declare war for fear of retaliation you can always search the enemy continent for a gap and settle it, as soon as its settled trade it to the other civ.

    Generally when you see two large equal civs fighting eachother from different continents its just a trade of units and failed invasion attempts until peace is declared- this is because its too hard to take an enemy city on a different continent

    Now if there is an enemy city on a civs continent then its the first to be attacked and captured, the computer fights like mad to retake cities it looses (even little crappy ones), so, if it has one tiny city in the middle of the enemys continent then they will attack constantly to get it back- the war lasts much longer than normal.

    I've seen two computer opponents destroy themselves over a size 3 city using this method.
     
  11. Himalia

    Himalia Overlord of Eternity.

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    I must say now that you mention this it seems obvioues that the AI can suffer from compulsive behaviour like this.
     
  12. eldar

    eldar ChiefTank

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    The best way to get two civs to fight without much intervention:
    - Start a game at DG level or above, with 80% water!
     
  13. Cactus Pete

    Cactus Pete Deity GOTM Staff

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    Interesting and certainly helpful. Are there any other approaches?
     
  14. SJ Frank

    SJ Frank Spamalot Co-court

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    Here is an old thread on the subject. I think the consensus is that there is no easy way to incite wars without MA's. However, if you lower the standard of "none-involvement" to "spending some money for MA is okay, I just don't want to spend any units", then signing up allies according to geographic locations is the way to go.
     
  15. Himalia

    Himalia Overlord of Eternity.

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    Thats something that ive always wondered it seems the AI does not help as much as it could in any MPP you have with it or even an alliance of course it would seem the AI is basically immune to getting its rep damaged with other AI controlled civilizations. Can anyone confirm if your rep does get damaged if you dont help as such ?
     
  16. smaknis1

    smaknis1 Chieftain

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    Ok so have we settled on the fact that the going through another country to incite wars over cities or buying MA to start wars? Also I wan to know if I really need to worry about rep if i can start wars this easily. I mean if everyone is so crippled how much of a power can they be?

    - Smaknis
     
  17. Slyk

    Slyk Chieftain

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    Geography. The single most important aspect, imo. All the points made above are the best help. In my games I generally try to find one ally that is the least likely to be 'in the way' for a long time to come. I play Euro maps a LOT (Marla's) and depending on the country, I will try to trade with, and prop up another nation if need be to 'use' them for my own means. My current game is as England and I have been careful to court Spain, Ottomans, and Ukraine. They are all fairly powerful in their own right and make excellent tools. I propped up the Russians for a while in the late Middle Ages and kept them at war with 2+ enemies for a long time until they were eliminated. Seeing France as a legitimate threat and juicy target, I coddled Spain as much as possible, trading heavily with her. I added Rome to the equation as their power seemed to peak. An MPP with both soon led to me nudging France into declaring war when they refused to move out of my territory. Well, you can imagine what happened. Rome had other MPPs that drew in four other nations. It was quickly 7 on 1 and France is now hanging on to two cities, completely surrounded (7 cities lost).

    If I play as the Romans I usually seek out the Ottomans and Spanish or English as long-term allies. As Germany, I look to Spain again, Russians and Ottomans...maybe Greece depending on their capabilities. As Greece I look to the Dutch or 'gulp' French. I think the key is to get a powerful or 'useable' ally on the other side of your most likely targets. It is nice to have that buffer zone of countries between you and that ally which allows you both to expand toward eachother but avoid direct conflict for centuries.

    Bottom line, have a long-term strategy for your expansion/conquest. Find potential powers that you can 'use' to keep a balance of power and keep enemies fighting on two fronts when possible. Have short, coordinated wars with limited/reaslistic goals that you get out of at the proper time. Use war as a tool to expand and create a better position for the next move. You need the one over-all strategic plan that is implemented and completed with multiple tactical wars.
     

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