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[GS] Increasing Tech Costs ==> Future Era Techs in Industrial Era

Discussion in 'Civ6 - Creation & Customization' started by Bleser, Feb 25, 2019.

  1. Bleser

    Bleser Prince

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    I originally posted this in the Bug Reports forum only to learn it is likely my personal mod that increases the cost of technologies and civics to slow the game down that is causing the problem. As the title states, around the Industrial Era in my current game I started to see Seasteads and Offshore Wind Farms show up by the AI players. Then I noticed that "Advanced AI" was an option right next to "Steam Power", so I knew something was up. Screen shot attached showing the future era techs as researchable although none of their prereqs have been researched.

    Basically, it seems the random future era techs are using some kind of mechanic that is getting screwed up by my increased technology costs. Anyone have any ideas? I poked around the tables and did find a "Technologies_XP2" table that has all of the random prereq techs, but beyond a cost structure in there I cannot see why they are showing up. Help appreciated!
     

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  2. Elhoim

    Elhoim Iron Tower Studio Dev

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    Yeah, I bugged my marathon game like that. Add this to your custom sql:

    UPDATE CivicRandomCosts SET Cost=Cost*2;
    UPDATE TechnologyRandomCosts SET Cost=Cost*2;

    Set the cost to whatever multiplier you want, make it higher than what you are increasing the techs!
     
  3. Bleser

    Bleser Prince

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    So I tried this and I don't think it worked; it didn't adjust my in-flight game and even when starting a brand new game I noticed something even stranger - some Information Era civics didn't pick up my cost increases while the base game ones did. See attached; first screen shot shows a 12,096-cost civic but then the "Venture Politics" civic still has the base cost of 3,600. ??

    With the way my mod works it loops through all techs/civics by era_type and increases costs and this worked reliably prior to GS. I am thinking there is some internal game mechanics going on that is screwing this up, or some value in some other table that we have to modify to make this work.
     

    Attached Files:

  4. Bleser

    Bleser Prince

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    Also, one more thing - it is clear that we now need to slow down environmental change at the same rate we are slowing down research as I had all coastal tile 3 tiles submerged by the Atomic era, with no option to make my factories (or the AIs, really) cleaner/greener. Anyone know what tables to use to adjust this?
     
  5. manacerace

    manacerace Chieftain

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    Yeah unfortunately at the moment mods which increase techs and civics costs are not working. That's probably because, as also you noticed, the future era tech costs do not get multiplied. I agree with you there should be another parameter hidden somewhere which must be taken account of. I hope we'll find it soon.
     
  6. manacerace

    manacerace Chieftain

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    I think I found the table responsible for environmental change: Resource_Consumption. There is column called CO2perkWh. Probably if you reduce those numbers (emissions per resource) you would slow down the process.

    EDIT: I think also table DeforestationLevels (column DeforestationPointsPerTurn) contributes...
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2019
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  7. Makarya

    Makarya Chieftain

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    The easiest way (i think) to slow Climate Effect is to use CO2For1DegreeTempRise in Maps_XP2
     
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  8. manacerace

    manacerace Chieftain

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    Yeah but unfortunately CO2For1DegreeTempRise depends only on map size, not game speed...
     
  9. Bleser

    Bleser Prince

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    Has anyone made any discoveries here? I hate the base game research speed - far too fast - and wish I could get this working again. :(
     
  10. Seven05

    Seven05 Warmonger

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    For climate change here is what I use for my personal tweaks. I wanted to reduce the CO2 output from units primarily so I halved the CO2 per kwh but the doubled the power requirements from buildings so they have to use more fuel to power everything. It seems to be working as intended although it's a slight nerf to things like the hydro electric plant that have a fixed power output.

    Code:
    UPDATE Resource_Consumption SET CO2perkWh = 410 WHERE ResourceType = 'RESOURCE_COAL'; --820
    UPDATE Resource_Consumption SET CO2perkWh = 245 WHERE ResourceType = 'RESOURCE_OIL'; --490
    UPDATE Resource_Consumption SET CO2perkWh = 24 WHERE ResourceType = 'RESOURCE_URANIUM'; --48
    
    UPDATE Buildings_XP2 SET RequiredPower = RequiredPower * 2 WHERE RequiredPower > 0;
    
    For research speeds, you can also reduce science production rather than increasing science cost. It'll work but it's not as simple as updating the costs by era and it's a pain to balance from what I've experienced so far. I really want to fix that issue with the future techs being available way too soon though. Nothing like getting advanced AI while your army is still musketmen and field cannons :)

    Edit: Or just read the second post where Elohim posted the answer. It's been a long day :)
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2019
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  11. Bleser

    Bleser Prince

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    Nice - this is a cool idea and I'll give it a go. If you double the power requirement - it is just making you need to build more power plants, right? Which I know you can't always do, so I'm just trying to understand that as it seem to encourage getting back to the high CO2 problem.

    The trouble is, I tried this and it didn't work. I added these lines and I could still see the future civics/AI as workable, even with their cost set higher than everything else. Maybe it is a load order thing? I'm not sure.
     
  12. Seven05

    Seven05 Warmonger

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    No, it will make them use more coal or oil to meet the power demand (for example coal puts out 4 power, if you need 8 from a power plant it will use 2 coal). In my example since I doubled the power used by buildings you can almost double the resources consumed by the power plants. Combine that with half the CO2 output and you end up with power plants putting out a little less CO2 than default (I never seem to need huge amounts of power) and units putting out about half. I originally worried about running out of coal and oil with power plants using more but that hasn't been significant in my games.

    That's all it does, it just increases their cost it doesn't change that they use random prerequisites. It should also be applying the advanced era modifier making them substantially more expensive than other techs. You should be able to get rid of the random prereq on them and just make them like any other tech if you want to or maybe @pokiehl can chime in. Since he was working on a mod that used the random prereq feature he can probably help if there is a way to limit that better and push them back a bit.

    You can also use something like this:
    Code:
    UPDATE GlobalParameters SET Value = 150 WHERE Name = 'TECH_COST_PERCENT_CHANGE_AFTER_GAME_ERA';
    UPDATE GlobalParameters SET Value = 150 WHERE Name = 'CIVIC_COST_PERCENT_CHANGE_AFTER_GAME_ERA';
    
    The default is 125, or +25%, setting it to 150 will make it more difficult to get too deep into advanced techs.
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2019
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  13. Bleser

    Bleser Prince

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    Nice - thank you for all of the detail, @Seven05. I'd like to do the same C02 mods too and will try them out!

    I'm curious about the lasts bit you posted - the parameters "TECH/CIVIC_COST_PERCENT_CHANGE_AFTER_GAME_ERA"; I've not seen those before. Are you saying that modifying these basic parameters attempts to do the same thing in concept - just increase the cost of techs and civics in general? I went looking for them and the current value is "20". There are also corresponding entries with "BEFORE" values:

    TECH/CIVIC_COST_PERCENT_CHANGE_BEFORE_GAME_ERA = -20

    I'm not sure what this does in relation to the "AFTER" values and if they need to be changed in the same manner?
     
  14. Laurana Kanan

    Laurana Kanan Don’t underestimate who I am.

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    For every era ahead of the global era that you are researching techs/civics they are 20% more expensive, which iirc stacks multiplicatively - so two eras would be 44% instead of 40%. For every era behind it is 20% cheaper.
     
  15. Bleser

    Bleser Prince

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    Ahhhhhhhhhhh I see now - this is the the "catch up" mechanism that makes techs cheaper for civs that are behind and pricer for those ahead. This could be a good alternative if the base-cost updates are no longer working, but I have a feeling I might be able to get those working.

    I like the idea of increasing those costs anyway - make someone who is ahead need to spend far more than 20% could help with slowing the tech pace down as well.

    Thanks!
     
  16. Seven05

    Seven05 Warmonger

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    Was the default 20? Ok, it's been a while since I messed with those, maybe not 150 then :) I haven't played a vanilla game in forever and I have so many other changes in place that makes that number work for me, you may need to test it a bit to see what feels best for your game.

    Keep in mind that it uses the "world era" not a specific player's current era. So the advances when you get to pick your dark/normal/golden age bonus, not when your roads upgrade. This modifier is the simple way to help limit runaway tech leads, sort of, but you may also need to go in a tweak other era settings. For example, each era has a minimum number of turns defined and if that number is too low this change won't actually help much except to make some beeline strategies more difficult.
     
  17. Bleser

    Bleser Prince

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    Thanks again for all of the replies here.

    I tried my original mod on a new game with the proper LoadOrder set on the action instead of across the mod and now the future era techs have the right costs. I am crossing my fingers that this fixes the "Advanced AI after Musketmen" bug but time will tell.
     
  18. Supremax67

    Supremax67 Chieftain

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    I too I am trying to get the tech multiplier working. I have no problem taking the time to adjust each civics and technology manually, does someone have a complete list?

    I found many listed under Technologies.xml, but not all. Same issue with civics.

    I was thinking of modifying the gamespeeds.xml instead
    <GameSpeedType>GAMESPEED_EPIC</GameSpeedType>
    <Name>LOC_GAMESPEED_EPIC_NAME</Name>
    <Description>LOC_GAMESPEED_EPIC_HELP</Description>
    <CostMultiplier>150</CostMultiplier>
    <CivicUnlockMaxCost>150</CivicUnlockMaxCost>
    <CivicUnlockPerTurnDrop>15</CivicUnlockPerTurnDrop>
    <CivicUnlockMinCost>30</CivicUnlockMinCost>
    I am thinking CivicUnlockMinCost, CivicUnlockPerTurnDrop & CivicUnlockMaxCost would have an impact on research only?
     
  19. Ellye

    Ellye Warlord

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    Also stumbled on this problem while using a mod that changes tech speed.

    Future Era suddenly have pre-reqs that go way back to the Renaissance Era only for some reason, and their research cost is way too low.
     
  20. Cordell

    Cordell Chieftain

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    same problem,
    This sql work for me. :)

    UPDATE CivicRandomCosts SET Cost=Cost*9;
    UPDATE TechnologyRandomCosts SET Cost=Cost*9;
     

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