Independence for Kosovo...

[Little Raven]

People who support independence of Kosovo should first get some grip on international law.

Ok.

International law = whatever the major powers say it is. Subject to change at any time without notice.

Done.

 

[IglooDame]

Kosovo independence movement was never peacefull. They're using violence against non Albanians for decades. And when they achieve independence in Kosovo, they'll try to secede in Macedonia, Montenegro and even NW Greece.

I was going by Wikipedia. If you've got a better source that says otherwise I'd really like to read it.

 

[philippe]

why didn't you edit it?

take no offence, but you aren't really in a suitable position for someone who can critize others in the quality of their posts

 

[dosed150]

Are we going to bomb Turkey to force it to grant the indepence to the Kurds too?

Should we nuke China and force it to release Tibet?

Should we force Britain to grant the independence to Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland?

...

Seriously, why are these cases different? This is an internal affair of Serbia. Albanians have no right to decide for themselves, especially after all these killings they're responsible for.

You talk about democracy - I agree. Let's have a referendum in ALL OF SERBIA about the independence of Kosovo. If Serbians agree with it too, than it's ok. But I doubt that.

you would seriously compare those the scots, welsh and northern irish arent oppressed groups coerced by england for the most part those nations want to be part of the uk, and the scots have way more power and influence in the uk than they should based on population, our political system in recent years seems biased towards scotland, and if it was proven that a significant majority in those states wanted independence it would probably be granted, the uk was created by an agreement between england and scotland, tibet was occupied by china against its will

 

[Italian Celtic]

take no offence, but you aren't really in a suitable position for someone who can critize others in the quality of their posts

1)typical nordic humour

2)i was not criticizing you i was asking you the why for not-editing

3)if you are refering to my grammatical mistakes, i will tell you english isn't my first language and i am not perfect

4)this is off-topic close now mate

 

[Irish Caesar]

The world powers that are backing it (ie. NATO) are making the same mistake as they did with demonising and bombing Serbia. It was a simplistic, one-sided strategy. And it always had an eye out for Russian influence in the region. The backing of Kosovar Independence is the same policy all over again. Just without the bombing of civilians.

Okay, that leads me to my next question, then...

What's in it for NATO?

 

[GoodSarmatian]

Okay, that leads me to my next question, then...

What's in it for NATO?

Another opportunity to piss off Russia.

 

[TheLastOne36]

I support Kosovo Independence!
I support for Europe to look like this once more

lol what happened to poland? Poland was never like that. IMO it should look like this again:

Notice how big Poland is

 

[Mirc]

^ WTH, Poland, Wallachia Moldova and the Ottoman Empire are 1 country?

 

[Bill3000]

lol what happened to poland? Poland was never like that. IMO it should look like this again:

You forgot the period of Poland when its unity was completely shattered and it was run down into a bunch of petty states? That's when you lost Silesia.

 

[Italian Celtic]

lol what happened to poland? Poland was never like that. IMO it should look like this again:

Notice how big Poland is

Notice how big italian empire was

^ WTH, Poland, Wallachia Moldova and the Ottoman Empire are 1 country?

if you weren't colour-blind you would have noticed that poland and ottoman empire have 2 different colours

 

[Mirc]

^ I'm not color-blind and my guess is that it is just an attempt of someone at recoloring some of the countries.

 

[Gelion]

Poles want to be imperialistic again? Let them!

 

[Ansar]

Notice how big italian empire was

I hope you're kidding.

Roman =/= Italian

 

[TheLastOne36]

Pfft., we were still bigger...

Spoiler Polish map :

Back on topic. Who agrees that Kosovo should be part of Albania? rather then it's own country?

 

[Tee Kay]

Back on topic. Who agrees that Kosovo should be part of Albania? rather then it's own country?

Do they want to? If we annex Kosovo to Albania but the people don't want it, then that really doesn't solve anything.

 

[TheLastOne36]

Do they want to? If we annex Kosovo to Albania but the people don't want it, then that really doesn't solve anything.

so the ethnic albanians in kosovo don't want to be with more albanians?

 

[innonimatu]

Or Portugal and Spain.

Another bad example.

 

[innonimatu]

Serbia engaged in a policy of deliberate "ethnic cleansing". My take is that if your national government is overtly hostile to one of your internal established cultures, you can expect a bit of kicking around. Was Milosevic ever convicted for his part in it, by the way?

He died during the whole charade of a trial. Convenient, it might get embarrassing towards the end, when they proved unable to convict him for anything.

From what I've just read, Kosovo had an entirely peaceful independence movement going for a while. Did they get violent before or after Serbia started leaning on them?

Before. They could have chosen to behave as serbians and no problem would exist today, or they might pretend they were albanians despite living outside Albania. They choose the later route, and later demanded independence. Obviously the serbian state was going to lean on them. Then they organized their own little independentist groups and started attacking serbian authorities - deliberately seeking a reaction from the serbian government. They got it, serbs disgruntled with the "albanian's" agitation and attacks helped Milosevic on his way to power, and he in turn attacked the "albanians", driving them towards the independentist's side. Those escalated the situation by setting up their own terrorist group/liberation army (depends on what side you support), which led to the intervention of the serbian army in support of the police, which provided an excuse for NATO to further dismantle Serbia.

The ethnic cleansing came after NATO started bombing Serbia. What was happening before were clashes between armed "albanian" groups and serbian military and police (much like it would later happen in Macedonia). Photos of fighters killed in these clashes were used as propaganda by the "albanians" (and later by NATO) to claim that civilians were being murdered (in Bosnia that had indeed happened, so perhaps this was an honest mistake or fear) and justify the bombing.

 

[philippe]

Another bad example.

oh really constructive

care to bother to tell why?

SINCE YOU CLEARLY HAVE NOTHING TO BACK UP YOUR CLAIM!

At home, life was calm and serene with the first two Spanish kings; they maintained Portugal's status, gave excellent positions to Portuguese nobles in the Spanish courts, and Portugal maintained an independent law, currency and government. It was even proposed to move the Spanish capital to Lisbon. Later, Philip IV tried to make Portugal a Spanish province, and Portuguese nobles lost power. Because of this, as well as the general strain on the finances of the Spanish throne as a result of the Thirty Years War, on December 1, 1640, the Duke of Braganza, one of the great native noblemen and a descendant of King Manuel I, was proclaimed king as John IV, and a war of independence against Spain was launched. Ceuta governors did not accept the new king; they maintained their allegiance to Spain. Although Portugal had substantially attained its independence in 1640, the Spanish continued to try to reassert their control for the next twenty-eight years, only accepting Portuguese independence in 1668.