India nears Russian warship deal

[Riesstiu IV]

Link

The deal - announced in the Indian capital Delhi - has now to be ratified by the Indian Government.

The aircraft carrier, the Admiral Gorshkov, is a 29-year-old ship which the Russians took out of service in 1994.

The deal has been criticised over the years by some who feel too much is being spent for a relatively old ship.


But India's navy chief, Admiral Madhvendra Singh, defended the purchase saying the life of an aircraft carrier was 40 years.

"After repair and refitting, the Admiral Gorshkov will be 70% new.

"We have got a very, very fine deal," he said.

The 44,000 tonne carrier was commissioned into the Russian Navy in the late 80s.

Reports say India wants the ship refitted to enable it to carry MiG-29 fighter aircraft.

Defence partners

Russia is India's largest supplier of military hardware and military co-operation is an important part of the relations between the two former Cold War allies.

The first joint naval exercises since the break-up of the Soviet Union were held this summer.

Designers from both the countries are also working on a joint fighter jet.

But recently India has also been sourcing supplies and equipment from other countries, most notably France and Israel.

And Britain's BAE Systems recently won a $1.7bn contract to supply India with jet trainer aircraft.

India's long-time rival Pakistan has expressed its concern over these purchases, saying it feared it would lead to an arms race in South Asia.

 

[h4ppy]

Sounds like a good deal, though the reasons why India wants a carrier are beyond my comprehension.

 

[Bozo Erectus]

$652 million is alot of money, but does India have the ability to build a comparable vessel from scratch? I dont think so. Pakistans objections are understandable, particularly in light of the fact that the U.S. is unlikely to sell anything of the same class to them.

 

[Desmond Hawkins]

Meh, we spent 800 million on old British subs, which doesn't include refit costs. (although, I do not think they are half bad subs, it just goes to show the price of a navy)

 

[Riesstiu IV]

India already has 1 or 2 carriers I believe. They are now definitely the top naval power in the Indian Ocean.

 

[Bozo Erectus]

How many carriers does Pakistan have?

 

[Riesstiu IV]

I'm pretty sure Pakistan does not have any carriers at all.

 

[Desmond Hawkins]

Originally posted by Dumb pothead
How many carriers does Pakistan have?

No carriers. India has been the most powerful native navy in the region, by default now for a very long time.

 

[The Yankee]

Oh well. You would have to figure India would do something like this anyway, just to solidify any naval options they may think they will need in the future. Now, they finally coughed up the cash to a willing supplier.

 

[naervod]

This is sad, that we have more and more ways of killing people returning to us from the Cold War. The Indians are getting a good deal on this carrier, considering they would be much more hard-pressed to build a carrier of their own, but still, it just gives India more platforms from which to launch destructive attacks. India already has plenty of naval power (at least in it's area). My fear is that they are indeed starting an arms race in the region, something that could lead to nuclear warfare.

 

[Simon Darkshade]

The arms race in the region has been going for decades; this is just the latest incident. This ex Kiev-class ship will be useful for projecting power to the Sechyelles and Maldives if no one else is around.

 

[The Yankee]

Yes, it is better able to project power, especially in the Indian Ocean. This is a great upgrade to projecting air power away from the subcontinent.

 

[Enemy Ace]

India, much like China wants to be a global player. This is in part, because China wants to be a global power. India does not want to become apart of any hegemony, unless it is theirs over others. There will be, arriving, three world powers, soon. China, India, and the return of Russia. If these countries can get it together they will be contenders.

There are three main blocks of power right now.

1) The United States & Allies (U.K, Japan, Pakistan, Israel)
2) Russia and a loose alliance/common interest with India and several barely mentionable allies.
3) France & Germany and their barely mentionable allies.

These three groups are all working to expand their influence. Russia or others may intermingle with members of opposing power groups out of neccessity, but essentially they are generally working against each other. Russia is still Russia from the Cold War. Just because the Soviet Union has broken up, does not mean in an instant they have give up hundreds of years of work toward expansion and domination over its neighbors.

India is in its own little cold war with Pakistan and they have been peeking at the American playbook. They think they can outspend Pakistan and either force them to give up competing or force an economic collapse. The carrier just adds pressure. Once India has achieved overwhelming military dominance, they believe it will be enough, alone, to assume control over all of Kashmir.

The whole co-development of jet fighters by Russia and India is merely a response to the Eurofighter.

 

[Desmond Hawkins]

I wouldn't include Pakistan in the Western alliance, as it is just a tool of convenience. Despite recent disagreements, France and Germany are very much within the western alliance sphere. Japan is in, not as much because it wants to, but because, for now, there isn't much else it can do.

The mutual interests between Russia and India are obvious.

China and Pakistan are considered allies, but I doubt they would really stick their necks out for eachother.

Australia and New Zealand are also strongly allied to America and and the west.

 

[Sims2789]

Originally posted by h4ppy
Sounds like a good deal, though the reasons why India wants a carrier are beyond my comprehension.

well, if they get in a war with Pakistan and China backs Pakistan, they could bomb Bejing from the Sea. the "mighty" Chinese Navy wouldn't stop them. i don't see why China has such a big army but such a tiny navy. Switzerland could beat them in a naval battle. but seriously, i see no plausable reason of why India could use an aricraft carrier. then again, they could say, "We have an aircraft carrier" to Pakistan, who doesn't have one.

 

[Simon Darkshade]

The Swiss could not beat the Red Chinese, who are expanding their navy. Compared to the US or the combined US/Allied/Taiwanese navy, the ChiComms do not have a pot to piss in. Weighed up against the Indians, there is less difference.

Bomb Beijing from the sea? With the Indian Harrier carrier and a souped up Kiev (like most hybrids, a failure in concept)? That's a good one.

Their reasons are partially boasting rights, but there are other strategic reasons. What sea route is India and a projected Indian naval force smack bang in the middle of? Just the sea route from the Middle East to East Asia. With multiple carriers, they begin to have the capability to influence affairs almost as far as the very strategic straits of Malacca.

 

[joycem10]

Just a point on India becoming the pre-eminant naval power in the Indian Ocean with the purchase and refit of the Gorshkov. The US navy routinely has a carrier task force in the area. In recent years there have usually been 2. In addition there is always a carrier in the med.

Even assuming the Indians are able to refit the Gorshkov to the point that it can carry Mig-29s, it by itself is no match for an American carrier. As presently configured it can carry less than twenty fighter/bombers. A Nimitz class carrier carries around 80 aircraft. In addition, the Indian Standoff ability is inferior to the US.

A Nimitz might have some amount of difficulty with the Viraant, Vikrat and the Gorshkov (again assuming the ability to upgrade it to carry more than Yak-38s or Harriers), but given the additional superior support of a US carrier battle group (plus whatever could be staged out of Diego Garcia) I'd put my money on the US carrier group.

Of course all that assumes operating outside of India based aircover.

 

[Enemy Ace]

Originally posted by joycem10
Just a point on India becoming the pre-eminant naval power in the Indian Ocean with the purchase and refit of the Gorshkov. The US navy routinely has a carrier task force in the area. In recent years there have usually been 2. In addition there is always a carrier in the med.

Even assuming the Indians are able to refit the Gorshkov to the point that it can carry Mig-29s, it by itself is no match for an American carrier. As presently configured it can carry less than twenty fighter/bombers. A Nimitz class carrier carries around 80 aircraft. In addition, the Indian Standoff ability is inferior to the US.

A Nimitz might have some amount of difficulty with the Viraant, Vikrat and the Gorshkov (again assuming the ability to upgrade it to carry more than Yak-38s or Harriers), but given the additional superior support of a US carrier battle group (plus whatever could be staged out of Diego Garcia) I'd put my money on the US carrier group.

Of course all that assumes operating outside of India based aircover.

Native Sea power...everyone realizes the U.S can project more naval power in any spot in the world than any other nation.

 

[Patroklos]

Hey

The United States Navy is not at all concerned about the blue water navies of ANY country, even its allies. There dominance in this theatre is complete due to a) the insanely capable platforms we use and b) since the collapse of Russia no one really maintains a blue water fleet with even 5% of the US capability. Most Navies of the modern world are geared to litoral defense and amphibious projecion. Even the US Navy is investing everything in these operations now adays.

So put simply, our allies know the blue water is covered already so they don't worry about it, and potential enemies have given up.

India, however, must have carriers no matter how capable to call iteself a world power. That is why China is now building them also.

-Pat

 

[Constantine]

Dosnt the US Navy always maintain an IO squadron and the base at Deigo Garcia?