India OR China

allhailIndia

Deity
Joined
Feb 22, 2001
Messages
3,328
Location
Casa de Non Compos Mentis
For the past 5 years or so, there has been a great deal of debate as to how China managed to overtake India in the last 50 years thought both were in the same state 50 years back.

More importantly, despite having a "Communist" ideology, how come China has more exports, greater PCI, and a larger GDP than India, which is freer than China??

How is it that Western companies favour China for huge projects while only outsourcing software and smaller projects to India even though they will not have any problems with human rights activists over here??

However, the contention is that in India, the bad news actually travels and people do give a damn about human rights. If the Godhra massacre had occured somewhere in Tibet, even a casualty list 10 times higher would have gone unnoticed.

Even in China, massive labour unrest and severe droughts do occur, but the Chinese govt hides it behind the veil of economic prosperity if Shanghai, Beijing and its richer provinces.

So now my question is, will authoritarian rule in India bring economic prosperity or would China have made such strides with a democracy??
 
The answer has nothing to do with human rights as far as i can see. China is a bigger market potentially. The west has been trying to gain access to chinese markets since the 1850's ~ some things never change.
 
You're talking about profoundly different cultures and economic situations...
First of all, Deng Xioping's ascension to the leader of China in 1978 must mark the turning point; before then, India outstripped China in all measurable catagories. When he began his market-oriented-but-communist-in-name reforms, China began to take off.
China has always welcomed foreign investment, the Chinese government never turns down a dollar, and encourages small scale entrepeneurial activity, especially in urban areas. Plus China benefits from being able to treat its workers like dirt. India, on the other hand, has more red tape in business than a Chinese parade. China's economic policies make them the posterchildren for the WTO.

I'm pretty sure trade has a lot to do with it as well. China is in a more central and convenient location in regards to the Asian economic powerhouses. Additionally, India is running a trade deficit of about $17 billion annual, while China has about twice that in surplus. India's issues with trade are a sresult of ridiculous tariffs that have gradually been going down (they were somewhere near 300% a decade ago). They're still fairly high, but they severely hurt India's appeal to investors and international commerce.

Finally, India spends about twice as much of its GDP on a military than China (once again an issue of location).
 
Originally posted by Greadius
. Plus China benefits from being able to treat its workers like dirt.

My question is that in the long term is that worth it. THey had that in the colonies of the British Empire and in Tsarist Russia.
Do people want freedom or can the call for freedom be stifled with money???
 
Originally posted by allhailIndia
My question is that in the long term is that worth it. THey had that in the colonies of the British Empire and in Tsarist Russia.
Do people want freedom or can the call for freedom be stifled with money???
I don't know, I guess that depends on personal preferences.
There are a lot more examples of lack of freedom leading to poverty than lack of freedom leading to prosperity. I think both China and India are curious examples that happen to be very large, rather than the rule. India would benefit more from following China's leads on allowing outside investment and lowering trade barriers than following their lead on repressing citizens and treating people like dirt.
 
Regarding China's vast economic progress over the last 2 decades, you're forgetting the large overseas Chinese factor. Taiwan, Hong Kong and Singapore are always among the largest of foreign investors there. There's red tape too but easier to do business if you're all speaking the same language (or dialect).

Plus its proximity to S Korea and Japan brings in investments fr there too. All these countries share a similiar cultural make-up.

Another plus factor - compared with India, China has a more homogenous population. Little in the way of religious or racial clashes. More stable.

Plus the segment of the Chinese people leading the Chinese economic take-off has always been historically the most trade-minded and entreprenuer of the race - i.e. those in the Yangzi valley and Fujian, Guangdong provinces. During Ming times, these were the areas that launched the Ming naval-cum-trading expeditions. In spite of half a century of Communist rule, they are now refilling their historical role as China's gateway to the outside world.
 
Pardon my ignorance, but I always just thought that some Western investors wanted to keep clear of India because of it's tense relations with a fellow nuclear power, Pakistan.

As well, India doesn't exactly have a "favorable" geographical location. China's surrounded by nations with a high standard of living, whereas India is surrounded by generally poorer nations.
 
the largest differences between China & India appear to be: the amount of communal violence in India; the control of birthrate in China; better eduction in China; and the more democratic government in India. 3 plus for China and 1 plus for India.
 
Originally posted by Knight-Dragon


Another plus factor - compared with India, China has a more homogenous population. Little in the way of religious or racial clashes. More stable.

They have been forced into being a homogenous population. All the religion is state controlled and anybody with amass movement is a threat.

Interesting question popped up. Is religious freedom really that necessary. Take China for example, the govt bans a sect and persecutes its members, while the west just whimpers in protest. Same situation in INdia and the entire world blames the govt. Is it better to be non-secular and oppressive in matters of religion
:confused: :confused:

Plus the segment of the Chinese people leading the Chinese economic take-off has always been historically the most trade-minded and entreprenuer of the race - i.e. those in the Yangzi valley and Fujian, Guangdong provinces. During Ming times, these were the areas that launched the Ming naval-cum-trading expeditions. In spite of half a century of Communist rule, they are now refilling their historical role as China's gateway to the outside world. [/QUOTE]
Well India also has a long history of entreprenuership, right back to the Indus Valley and several of its entrepreneurs are as well known as any Chinese counterpart, so why the gap??
 
China has a better geographical location than india and more land acreage and thus more natural resources(okay so they are almost used up). But still, most chinese are either aethist or not too concerned about religion. Communism will eventually fall apart in china, I bet it happens in the next 50 years gradually.
 
Originally posted by rmsharpe
Pardon my ignorance, but I always just thought that some Western investors wanted to keep clear of India because of it's tense relations with a fellow nuclear power, Pakistan.

As well, India doesn't exactly have a "favorable" geographical location. China's surrounded by nations with a high standard of living, whereas India is surrounded by generally poorer nations.

US Export Control Laws made it illegal to do a lot of business with India. :nuke:
 
Indians need to settle their disputes with the Parkistanis first. You can't do much if the country is in constant fear of nuclear war. Investors don't like risks. :p

It's strange that Indians and Parkistanis Americans get along pretty well in the United States, and back in their mother countries they are killing each other...all because of religious differences.
 
Well i'm not sure how much Pakistanis and Indian masses reall hate each other. Its the fundamentalists that are killing each other and going to destroy each other's holy sites and stuff.
Most people aren't that interested in war with each other.
Pakistan and India are really only building up troops in Kashmir. They don't bother on the rest of their long border further south.
It the governments not the people as much. After all alot of Pakistanis are Indians.
 
Originally posted by Thunderfall
It's strange that Indians and Parkistanis Americans get along pretty well in the United States, and back in their mother countries they are killing each other...all because of religious differences.

Not all because of religious differences. There are many frustration about misgovernment, poverty, corruption and real every day stuff. The religious tension add a large part of the heat, but just as much so, that also provide convinient scapegoating for all the other frustrations. If there were not the relious tensions, the malcontent and frustrated population would, but less easily, find some other charactersitic of difference to trigger their violence.
 
Another plus factor - compared with India, China has a more homogenous population. Little in the way of religious or racial clashes

I'm not sure this is true. While it doesn't have the same religious clashes between Hindus and Muslims that India does, China has its own ethnic differences, especially in the north. It's such a huge country that conflicts can't be avoided, but I think the Chinese government is more ruthless in dealing with any discontent so we hear about it less. I heard that the government was using the post - September 11 "War on Terrorism" as an excuse to crack down on some Muslim minority groups in the north.
 
Originally posted by allhailIndia
They have been forced into being a homogenous population. All the religion is state controlled and anybody with amass movement is a threat.
I mean historically. For most of the past 2200 years, China had been a united empire. The time-length was sufficient to mould the peoples of China into recognizably 'the Chinese'.

Whereas India had been pretty much splited into numerous smaller entities. Even today, you still have different tribes, peoples, religions, ethnic groups etc etc.

And the Chinese are not really that much into religion. The Falungong is popular as much for its exercise regime as for its whatever religious content. The Chinese bent is more on morality and practicality. ;) At least fr personal experience.
 
Originally posted by Genuis
I'm not sure this is true. While it doesn't have the same religious clashes between Hindus and Muslims that India does, China has its own ethnic differences, especially in the north. It's such a huge country that conflicts can't be avoided, but I think the Chinese government is more ruthless in dealing with any discontent so we hear about it less. I heard that the government was using the post - September 11 "War on Terrorism" as an excuse to crack down on some Muslim minority groups in the north.
You mean in Xinjiang in the northwest? Well, that's taking place a very long distance away fr where the economic heartland of China is, so it's almost a non-event economically, for more than 90% of the people.

At least, currently the Chinese are trying to develop the region with investments.
 
Top Bottom