India

Well comp advantages probably has something to do with it, on Diety and Immortal it's not something I can fight.
 
Same. India's UA can also backfire horribly if you convert enough of his cities to your own religion. It's still hilariously fun to convert enough of India's cities early on and watch him try desperately to convert his own cities, only for them to get pressured back into oblivion.
 
With the recent religious pressure distance adjustments....India is now the fulcrum for religion wherever they live. Whatever religion gets settled into India becomes the dominant religion for that continent. If its not yours, you will convert. If you get to India early and get them following your religion, converting the region to your religion is a snap.

I had a recent game where I got to India late, and Egypt already got their religion into them. My cities start falling like dominoes, fighting 100 religious pressure with 12-20 just doesn't work for very long. I actually was able to convert the core India cities to my religion using a GP, but the core religion still came back with like 80 pressure and flipped it back.

I could have fought, but it just wasn't worth the faith spend. Better to just accept the new world order and save up my faith for GP later in the game.

So in a nutshell, India's lack of missionaries is no longer a big deal to me, their religion spreads just fine.
 
I agree with folks that say India 's UA is almost too strong. The pressure is ridiculously high and there was no way I could compete. I was next to India and we both founded religion around the same time , me maybe 10-20 turns later. He passively converted majority of MY cities to Hinduism easily despite my missionaries. (Which I was popping fast every 5 turns) Very frustrating - I felt helpless. What would be a viable strategy in this case? Other than taking him out. We are talking >100 pressure from him.
 
I agree with folks that say India 's UA is almost too strong. The pressure is ridiculously high and there was no way I could compete. I was next to India and we both founded religion around the same time , me maybe 10-20 turns later. He passively converted majority of MY cities to Hinduism easily despite my missionaries. (Which I was popping fast every 5 turns) Very frustrating - I felt helpless. What would be a viable strategy in this case? Other than taking him out. We are talking >100 pressure from him.

You could convert his cities with great prophets or like you said take him out.
 
I agree with folks that say India 's UA is almost too strong. The pressure is ridiculously high and there was no way I could compete. I was next to India and we both founded religion around the same time , me maybe 10-20 turns later. He passively converted majority of MY cities to Hinduism easily despite my missionaries. (Which I was popping fast every 5 turns) Very frustrating - I felt helpless. What would be a viable strategy in this case? Other than taking him out. We are talking >100 pressure from him.

That's what Inquisitors exactly do. If you want to convert Indian city's majority to yours, use GP. If you just want to conserve your religion against Hinduism, than purchase Inquisitors and eliminate heretics continuously.
 
That's what Inquisitors exactly do. If you want to convert Indian city's majority to yours, use GP.

It ultimately depends on how in depth the original religion is. I have gone in with 2 GPs and 4 missionaries (evangelists, so they are stronger), and it still didn't do the job. You get into a game of whack of mole where the original religions pressure just pops it back up....meanwhile your cities start to flip.

It quickly gets to a point where its just not worth fighting, it costs so much faith to fight that its far better to just accept your new religion, and save your faith for GP.

That said, I think the issue may be less India and more the new religion spread. I think the old spread was too weak, but the new one may be too strong, and we could use something in the middle.
 
It ultimately depends on how in depth the original religion is. I have gone in with 2 GPs and 4 missionaries (evangelists, so they are stronger), and it still didn't do the job. You get into a game of whack of mole where the original religions pressure just pops it back up....meanwhile your cities start to flip.

It quickly gets to a point where its just not worth fighting, it costs so much faith to fight that its far better to just accept your new religion, and save your faith for GP.

That said, I think the issue may be less India and more the new religion spread. I think the old spread was too weak, but the new one may be too strong, and we could use something in the middle.

I agree. I just answered the question 'How to fight with India'. India is probably too strong to fight, so you can play as Spain or Celt if you want to keep your religion rather than Indian one until adjusting its pressure value.
 
Keep in mind that India's UA only affects cities owned by India, so while the pressure for Indian cities will be severe in border cities, the UA bonus only extends that far. Proper settling (i.e. don't settle a long line of cities along India's border) will limit the efficacy of the UA.

G
 
Keep in mind that India's UA only affects cities owned by India, so while the pressure for Indian cities will be severe in border cities, the UA bonus only extends that far. Proper settling (i.e. don't settle a long line of cities along India's border) will limit the efficacy of the UA.

G

So your solution to combating their UA is just "Don't settle near him." That's not really a viable idea sometimes, it can really kneecap you to settle less just to not have to deal with his religion. And on top of that, it doesn't' stop him from settling near you.
 
So your solution to combating their UA is just "Don't settle near him." That's not really a viable idea sometimes, it can really kneecap you to settle less just to not have to deal with his religion. And on top of that, it doesn't' stop him from settling near you.

It isn't the only method, but it does work.

G
 
Keep in mind that India's UA only affects cities owned by India, so while the pressure for Indian cities will be severe in border cities, the UA bonus only extends that far. Proper settling (i.e. don't settle a long line of cities along India's border) will limit the efficacy of the UA.

G

That's a fair point, will keep in mind. Although I complained about it, it does make sense since it's their UA after all. Basically, if you're neighboring India, religion war has a huge opportunity cost.

The irony is after I lost the religion war to India in that game, I decided to try out their UA so started a new game w/ India. Only that this time I missed founding the 4th religion by 2 turns and ended up being some other founder's vessel..
 
I think some of the changes to Pantheons have really hurt India. Wisdom was one of my go to pantheons, but even with tradition's extra faith and shrine first in every city I haven't been able to found a religion on Immortal with that Pantheon. Protection was another pantheon I liked as India, but with the AI emphasizing faith more you can't really choose it and found. Nature isn't broken anymore if you start on 12 mountains. If you choose resource based pantheons your UA doesn't do much. You will only get a few turns of actually using the pantheon before someone who went shrine first gets theirs.

The pantheon pressure changes also make things tougher for India, especially since that second great prophet now costs even more faith. Something that could help india is if prophets could perform other actions after founding or enhancing. I think this would be cool, interesting and powerful but balancing. Alternatively, just making his prophets cheaper would be unique and the small boost I think he needs.

I also don't see why the Naga-Mala loses a movement and can't move after attacking. Its a really hard to use unit
 
I think some of the changes to Pantheons have really hurt India. Wisdom was one of my go to pantheons, but even with tradition's extra faith and shrine first in every city I haven't been able to found a religion on Immortal with that Pantheon. Protection was another pantheon I liked as India, but with the AI emphasizing faith more you can't really choose it and found. Nature isn't broken anymore if you start on 12 mountains. If you choose resource based pantheons your UA doesn't do much. You will only get a few turns of actually using the pantheon before someone who went shrine first gets theirs.

It hurts a lot of civs I think, anyone who could really use a religion just got hit hard. I'm not really sure I like it personally. I guess it helps an AI if they actually found or get the right pantheon, but I preferred when there was more differentiation and then I admit, more access to a fun part of the game. I forgot to save it, but looked into the AI Production Log of a game I started on the new version, and of 15, the only AI that didn't build a shrine first was Ethiopia who of course chose their UB.
 
It hurts a lot of civs I think, anyone who could really use a religion just got hit hard. I'm not really sure I like it personally. I guess it helps an AI if they actually found or get the right pantheon, but I preferred when there was more differentiation and then I admit, more access to a fun part of the game. I forgot to save it, but looked into the AI Production Log of a game I started on the new version, and of 15, the only AI that didn't build a shrine first was Ethiopia who of course chose their UB.
But I find that other civs are doing better ignoring the founding. Usurping works. And if your civ is religious, it should be able to found prioritizing.

Currently not following my advice. I managed to found with Sweden in Emperor.
 
But I find that other civs are doing better ignoring the founding. Usurping works. And if your civ is religious, it should be able to found prioritizing.

Currently not following my advice. I managed to found with Sweden in Emperor.

Yeah, it probably is better to ignore Religion completely if you aren't one of five specific civs or have a great pantheon setup. Which hurts Siam, China, Korea, Arabia (playing Arabia without Mandirs is almost painful imo for instance), and other nations that could really use a specific belief or two. I realize it shouldn't be guaranteed, but I do wish it was more possible than it currently seems to be.
 
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