Indian Patent Crisis

[Tabasco Sauce]

I was watching a special on TV about how the ability of Indian companies to make generic copies of Western medicines has been stopped due to India conforming to the WTO patent laws. This is de facto genocide. Shame on the Indian government, the WTO, and Phrma.

 

[Hygro]

lol genocide? It might be bad policy, I don't know, but it's not genocide

 

[GarretSidzaka]

@Resi X
kudos for you to bring up this awfulness. not many people know about the evils of international patenting being pushed by Nazis like the WTO

@Hygro
He is being more of less figurative, in a way. When you halt medicine in any form, many (including me) consider it a genocidal act. The same goes for the illegal sanctioning of medical supplies to countries. Illegal as in Geneva conventions and UN charter.

 

[Homie]

You people only see the short-term benefits of essentially stealing the ideas of the Western pharmaceutical companies and producing cheap, generic drugs. Sure, the benefits are great for the short-run: Many people can now buy the same medicine for cheaper, helping their health.

But you overlook the negative effects:
1. Lost Incentives and the cease of medical research.
Pharmaceutical companies will lose incentive to do research and invent new drugs, because others (India, etc...) will simply steal the formula and make cheaper equivalents. So new discoveries of drugs will be few and far between, because why would the pharmaceuticals companies invest all this time and money researching if they are not going to reap the profits from it?

2. Covering their costs.
Another thing to consider is that in the pharmaceutical industry the greatest cost by far is research. The production of the good itself is cheap, but researching it is costly. So when a company finally comes out with a new drug, it will have to cover its research costs when selling it.

3. Morality - Theft.
How is it fair for these nations to steal the intellectual property of the pharmaceutical companies in the West and resell it? That is essentially what is happening. Would it be ok for me to mass copy a DVD movie and resell it for a profit without paying royalties to the copyright holders?

 

[Fëanor]

How is it moral for pharmaceutical companies to let people die because they cant pay the artificially inflated prices they charge?

 

[ainwood]

@Resi X
kudos for you to bring up this awfulness. not many people know about the evils of international patenting being pushed by Nazis like the WTO

Nazis?
You don't think that rules on free trade are good? You'd prefer that the protectionist economies of the world (US, EU) continue to dump surplus comodities on the third world below-cost and destroy third world economies?

Whilst I personally prefer a truly free market with no government interference, at least they are one government organisation that is trying to reduce government interference in the free market.

So if india develops some new wonder drug, you'd be all for the US (for example) stealing their property rights?

How is it moral for pharmaceutical companies to let people die because they cant pay the artificially inflated prices they charge?

Would it be moral to destroy the profit revenues of drug companies, drive the out of business by stealing their intellectual property, to the point where there is no-one researching new drugs?

One of the greatest ironies is that one of the main reasons drug companies are so profitable is because people are tkaing so many drugs that they simply don't need....

 

[emzie]

Would it be moral to destroy the profit revenues of drug companies, drive the out of business by stealing their intellectual property, to the point where there is no-one researching new drugs?

Neither extreme need be true.

 

[GarretSidzaka]

@ainwood

did you know that the WTO facilitates the destruction of third world economies and are involved in the rubberstamping of illegal patenting operation. You have it backwards, my friend.

Of course the propaganda you have been exposed to would tell you otherwise, but why wouldn't it do so? Isn't the operation of propaganda to make the masses believe what the ruling elite want? Don't believe what you hear in the liberal media. How can you formulate a differing world view when all of you information comes from those who are committing the crimes (corporations)

Try looking into alternative media or leftist publications. Like AK Press.

And you can try watching the documentary called "The Yes Men". Funny and informative. Perhaps find a copy or subscribe to "Adbusters" magazine.

 

[ainwood]

Of course the propaganda you have been exposed to would tell you otherwise, but why wouldn't it do so? Isn't the operation of propaganda to make the masses believe what the ruling elite want? Don't believe what you hear in the liberal media. How can you formulate a differing world view when all of you information comes from those who are committing the crimes (corporations)

So what makes the 'propoganda' I have been exposed to any more false than the 'truth' you have been exposed to?

The WTO promotes a free market. The WTO promotes globalisation. Whilst many people love to protest and smash McDonalds & starbucks whenever the WTO is in town, they WTO are actually working to break-down trade barriers and let global markets pull some countries into the modern age.

 

[Newbunkle]

You people only see the short-term benefits of essentially stealing the ideas of the Western pharmaceutical companies and producing cheap, generic drugs. Sure, the benefits are great for the short-run: Many people can now buy the same medicine for cheaper, helping their health.

But you overlook the negative effects:
1. Lost Incentives and the cease of medical research.
Pharmaceutical companies will lose incentive to do research and invent new drugs, because others (India, etc...) will simply steal the formula and make cheaper equivalents. So new discoveries of drugs will be few and far between, because why would the pharmaceuticals companies invest all this time and money researching if they are not going to reap the profits from it?

2. Covering their costs.
Another thing to consider is that in the pharmaceutical industry the greatest cost by far is research. The production of the good itself is cheap, but researching it is costly. So when a company finally comes out with a new drug, it will have to cover its research costs when selling it.

3. Morality - Theft.
How is it fair for these nations to steal the intellectual property of the pharmaceutical companies in the West and resell it? That is essentially what is happening. Would it be ok for me to mass copy a DVD movie and resell it for a profit without paying royalties to the copyright holders?

Well said.

People aren't entitled to drugs just because they exist. They were the product of hard work, and difficult research. Good on the Indian government.

If you don't like it, donate some money to a charity that buys drugs for people. If you can't find one, start one.

 

[emzie]

Well said.

People aren't entitled to drugs just because they exist. They were the product of hard work, and difficult research. Good on the Indian government.

If you don't like it, donate some money to a charity that buys drugs for people. If you can't find one, start one.

And if no one donates money to charity, said people in India should just die, rite?

 

[Newbunkle]

And if no one donates money to charity, said people in India should just die, rite?

No, then their government should help them, by purchasing the drugs legally.

 

[El_Machinae]

In my mind, it makes perfect sense for India to 'steal' patents from other countries when they can, because it gives them the benefits of the research and allows them to give vital wealth to their people (bringing them out of poverty).

The fact that India is now enforcing patent laws is a good thing. The reason they're doing so is that they expect to be generating technical knowledge themselves and wish to partake of the international patent process. They're starting to "play by the rules" because they're advanced enough to find such play profitable.

Most developing countries have no real choice but to 'steal' technology. Heck, you should check out the patent 'theft' in early American history! The theft isn't as bad as you'd think, because there aren't much profits to be had in a developing nation: all the profits come when the nation is wealthy and enforcing the patents.

Who would you rather have as a customer: a poor farmer who can spare a few handfuls of wheat to purchase whatever good you're offering, or a wealthy farmer who's using advanced techniques that allows him a massive surplus?

Remember that most patents are generated with the intention of selling those products in the developed world (which is a huge market!), the goal is to get more markets developed. You've never expected to make a profit off of the poor farmer anyway.

 

[Princeps]

You cannot say that you are for free market if you defend the patent system, because the patent system is probably one of the most devastating forms of state intervensionism in market society. There are other ways of creating incentive then resorting to such a deeply flawed system. A far better alternative might be public research: most of our greatest scientific innovations have come from the public sector, not from the corporations.

 

[Newbunkle]

I think a free market is a good idea, but it shouldn't violate human rights. I'm for the patent system, because it protects the rights of people who create things:

"Everyone has the right to the protection of the moral and material interests resulting from any scientific, literary or artistic production of which he is the author."

IMO Indian drugs companies should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

 

[Princeps]

I think a free market is a good idea, but it shouldn't violate human rights. I'm for the patent system, because it protects the rights of people who create things:

The patent system violates many human rights and is responsible for the suffering of millions of people. Why? Because it damages the core property of market society; it hinders the free exchange of goods, ideas and information in a manner that is very devastating and counter-productive. The patent system essentially creates violently imposed monopolies.

 

[emzie]

IMO Indian drugs companies should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

Yeah, how dare people get the plague these days. Don't they know they're centuries behind.

Not that it matters, the poorest people in India aren't going to be afford patent-breaking drugs anyway.

 

[Newbunkle]

LOL... and there was me thinking India's economy was doing very well, yet nobody is bashing their government for not providing what their citizens need, they're bashing the drugs companies for expecting a reasonable reward for the time and effort they spent making them. This is just so twisted.

 

[Erik Mesoy]

There is a great benefit to a nation if its citizens are healthier by the millions. This goes for the entire world, essentially. Why aren't states or similar actors offering drug companies $LOTS amount of money to put their drugs into the public domain? The drug companies get their money now instead of tomorrow; the states get a crapload of more productive people paying taxes; the people get healthy.
I'm curious.

You people only see the short-term benefits of essentially stealing the ideas of the Western pharmaceutical companies and producing cheap, generic drugs. Sure, the benefits are great for the short-run: Many people can now buy the same medicine for cheaper, helping their health.

You might want to mention the long-term benefits too: Millions of people who are healthy instead of sick or dead, contributing large amounts of money to the economy instead of e.g. draining money to healthcare. These people can then buy luxuries from the pharmaceutical companies, work for the pharmaceutical companies, work at a job at all, and generally be more useful for the rest of their normal life expectancy.

But you overlook the negative effects:
1. Lost Incentives and the cease of medical research.
Pharmaceutical companies will lose incentive to do research and invent new drugs, because others (India, etc...) will simply steal the formula and make cheaper equivalents. So new discoveries of drugs will be few and far between, because why would the pharmaceuticals companies invest all this time and money researching if they are not going to reap the profits from it?

However, the negative effects of not mass-producing cheap drugs over the heads of the pharmaceutical companies include fewer people available to do medical research. Additionally, patents are not necessarily a net incentive otherwise, as they can be a disincentive to researchers who are behind in a field and whose research may result in a product that is already patented.

2. Covering their costs.
Another thing to consider is that in the pharmaceutical industry the greatest cost by far is research. The production of the good itself is cheap, but researching it is costly. So when a company finally comes out with a new drug, it will have to cover its research costs when selling it.

And because of the way patent law, the WTO, and various other crap like the market work, the price generally does not drop after research costs have been covered.

3. Morality - Theft infringement.
How is it fair for these nations to steal infringe the intellectual property of the pharmaceutical companies in the West and resell it? That is essentially what is happening. Would it be ok for me to mass copy a DVD movie and resell it for a profit without paying royalties to the copyright holders?

You're murdering the English language, so I fixed your quote to remove the loaded terms, "murderer". You seem to have conflated patents with copyrights too.

I don't have much sympathy for patents anyway when they are set up even to block independent invention. Google [google]patent infringement independent invention[/google] for details on one problem. Patents on mathematics are another. Ridiculously obvious patents are a third. Patents of an extended duration exacerbate the first problem of independent inventors getting slammed. Then we have patent trolls who don't even produce the product that they have a patent on, but earn money from suing other people who bump up against their patent portfolio.

The patent system is rotten.

 

[I'm Cleo!]

Also, bear in mind that drug companies' #1 cost is not research. They spend substantially more on marketing (at least American drug companies) than they do research.

(Tangent: Personally, I think that pharmaceutical companies should be forbidden to direct-market prescription drugs. If the law is going to impose a restriction on patients to purchase the drugs themselves, requiring a prescription from a physician, then the companies should not be allowed to market those drugs directly to consumers. I mean, the whole point of the prescription system is that people aren't sufficiently informed to make the decision about what controlled substances they should be allowed to use; how can we allow marketing to those people?)

I'm Cleo!