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Indian UHV strategy discussion

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Rhye's and Fall of Civilization' started by mushyman, Mar 28, 2008.

  1. the_man_

    the_man_ Chieftain

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    I have been trying to beat this UHV all week, trying a couple of things you all suggested, but couldn't get it to work. So, took from all the suggestions and also changed a few things. I'm wondering if anyone else has tried it this way.

    Basicially what I did was turn one, move my settler to found my capital on lahore. I started working the marble tile and produced warriors until size 3. With my initial warrior i swung northwest, then northeast, heading towards beijing, and popping the two huts on the way. I also told warrior number 2 to go straight towards beijing, as soon as it was produced. Warrior 1 tries to find barbarians on the way to beijing to level up and upgrade to city raider 1, then heals. I got lucky and both warriors made it to beijing around turn 27, where I declared war, then captured beijing. The worker made its way back to india via the mountain passes and jungle to work the marble tile

    Back in Lahore, the next warrior went towards the balkans and europe to pop huts, and the one after that hit south india then came back to defend. Next I started building stonhenge, which I finish, then make the oracle.

    For research, beeline to monotheism, then meditation, preisthood, writing.

    The oracle gets mathematics for confucianism and catapults. The next great prophet coming out of lahore bulbs theology (which gets you religion 5), and the rest is researched after getting agriculture and iron working.

    When the carthaginians and romans come around, trade for anything possible, and hope for the best.

    Next, code of laws, then construction, calender and currency.

    Once code of laws is built, then start expanding. Dilli, and then another city to the right of the rice, south of beijing. I settled a few more cities, but looking back, those four would have been more than enough.

    So, that was how I did it.

    If anyone has any questions, ask away, I'll try to clarify.
     
  2. NitroJay

    NitroJay Chieftain

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    That's a really interesting way of doing the UHV... Taking China out early opens up their religion path and takes them out of the running for the #1 in pop slot for the last UHV req...

    I might give it a shot this way... I beat the Indian UHV by busting out Great people for religous techs... Then, once all five religions came in, I conquered Persia. On the couple of times I've done it, I've been lucky having China collapse, but I never thought about rushing them at start...

    What was China defended with? Just a warrior or two on turn 27? With China out of the picture, you can probably forget about rushing to monotheism... Just get the two indian religions, theology from the oracle and tech to mathmatics and calendar...

    Okay, I'm seriously going to see how that goes... Thanks!
     
  3. 5StarGen.Xeno

    5StarGen.Xeno Chieftain

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    Alright guys you can probably tell I don't post much here but I want to say thanks to you guys for helping me win the India UHV :D The key is where you found your capital, that's mostly it! The rest you really need to leave to luck (like Jerusalem not founding Judaism on turn 28) The first time I tried India after reading all of this I won! I'm just going to make this one big paragraph so follow along!

    Here is what you need to do: FOUND LAHORE!!!!! The key is that because you build it on the sugar you get 3 food on the spot which really helps, and the marble. Send your first warrior to the hut in India and read in the previous posts about what to do with the warriors because it has something to do with how fast the Independents found religions, supposedly. Research: Masonry - Monotheism - Meditation - Priesthood. Let the city grow a little (build a couple warriors maybe) and then get a worker and hook up the marble ASAP!!! I think the marble increases the research rate by 1. Hopefully you were lucky enough to found Judaism (I got it on turn 39 I think) and Hinduism, if not then restart because you need a little luck on your side. (I didn't get any with the huts but I still won!) Now make sure you found the first 3 religions in Lahore, don't build another city until then. Once you found Buddhsim with Priesthood get working on the Oracle and research Writing, don't finish the Oracle unitl you get Writing. After making sure you have Writing finish the Oracle and select Theocracy as your free tech, BOOM! Christianity! Next start building temples for the three religions in Lahore so you can start making people priests, I must've spawned 4 great priests in Lahore but your just going to need 3 to research Divine Right. So you know when you get em just select the light bulb. In the mean time your obviously building more cities and what not, oh and make sure you try and have good relations with Persia and China, those two have a lot of food you can trade to get. To boost relations with Persia you can convert to the religion they convert to (obviously one of the relgions you founded is going to spread to them) After you get the 3 great priests your in the clear! Islam! 2 historical goals completed! Plus a Golden Age! From here you guys should know what to do, grow your cities and trade for food. For example you can trade gems for sheep to Persia because all we care about is that food! Then hopefully if you did everything right with the cities you should have a larger population then China. I think my population was almost 10 million! There you go! The India historical victory! I'll also post a screen shot of the cities and what not. Thanks you guys for helping me =D!
     
  4. 5StarGen.Xeno

    5StarGen.Xeno Chieftain

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  5. NitroJay

    NitroJay Chieftain

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    Very nice win...

    You know, honestly, the first time I beat the Indian UHV, I did it with founding Dilli on the spot... I've actually won the UHV two or three times with Dilli as my start city, but I do reload a bunch more than I probably need to due to the autofounding of Judaism...

    Anyway, I tried this afternoon with hitting China early on... Failed miserably... But I was only -half- trying... I wasn't nearly as agressive... I plan on trying again tonight... Hope fully, I can come up with a way to avoid the Jewish religion all together... I figure by hitting China early, I can get their religions instead... I'll post on my progress...
     
  6. 5StarGen.Xeno

    5StarGen.Xeno Chieftain

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    Yeah it's all about luck with Judaism, I got it on turn 39, but I heard sometimes it can be founded in Jerusalem at turn 28 or even earlier! o_O
     
  7. NitroJay

    NitroJay Chieftain

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    That's true... It's in the code to be founded anywhere from turn 25-50... It is supposedly random... But I feel like the warrior voodoo works... lol!
     
  8. JiimBV

    JiimBV Afro Samurai

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    It's possible to take down China with your first two warriors, as long as you can fight enough barbarians along the way to be decently promoted. I've even done it with just one before (though that was ridiculously lucky).

    The problem for me, however, is founding Christianity or Islam after going for Taoism. However, I have been using Lahore, and Dilli might be better in this case (for the food, and thus, GP points). I've also been using only one city, and on Emperor, for a challenge. So it should be easy on Monarch with more than one city.

    However, this strategy is still somewhat based on luck (because Taoism and Confucianism can often be founded by Rome or Egypt), but not nearly as much as the usual one. Good luck all! :D
     
  9. faulah

    faulah Chieftain

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    Won India tonight! I did the Takshashila start, and went Hinduism-Judaism-Buddhism (had to restart twice because the first time I tried for Hinduism-Biddhism, and the second time Jerusalem beat me to Judaism by ONE turn, and I had to micromanage a little to prevent it the next time), Oracle for Christianity, and then SOMEHOW got Divine Right two turns before the Arabian spawn! I thought I was way behind, but somehow picked up a ton of research for it, or something, I don't even remember how. I had just come out of a plague, too.
     
  10. BurnEmDown

    BurnEmDown Chieftain

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    Yeah 2 turns before they spawn, at 590 AD or something, all research needed for medieval techs is reduced greatly. That's how I won my Maya and India UHVs, couldn't have done it without. Also that's why it's better to save 3 great priests and only bulb with them when the research is easier so you don't need 4.
     
  11. the_man_

    the_man_ Chieftain

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    Because China starts out with a scout, by the time your second warrior makes it, it's just defended with 1 warrior. Although I have lost sometimes, more often than not I win, and anyways, it takes less than 5 minutes to play this far, so i don't mind redoing it if i have to.

    I tried it again, and it's actually easier to beat it by razing beijing, reducing the maintenance costs of running a second city. I still recommend that city SE of the rice in southern china, as it gets a copper in its fat cross, and is really easy to connect to your capital (you just have to build a road to the river in west-india). That way you also don't have to get to iron working before building spearmen and axemen... a big plus.

    I still prefer to found Judaism over taoism or islam. You have to get the techs for judaism to get theocracy anyways, and divine right takes 2 great prophets, which could be better spent on other things in my opinion. I know its not a sure thing to get Judaism, but i mostly it happens, and that's good enough in my opinion.

    The only downside with taking out china is that Japan gets really big. Usually around 14 million or so....

    @Jiim, Christianity shouldn't be too hard, because stonehenge and oracle both produce GP points, and it usually takes less than 20 turns to finish it up. Usually I have enough time to research 1 or two essential techs before someone else could beat me to theocracy.

    @nitro, I think the only way to realistically take out china is to found your capital at lahore, work the marble tile, and send out warrior 2 right away. Dilli would take too long to get that second warrior around.
     
  12. NitroJay

    NitroJay Chieftain

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    You guys could have predicted my game... Wish I would have read this before I started playing last night...

    Well, I beat China with two warriors on my second try... It was a lot of luck though... China had two warriors of their own when I got there... Although one was out walking around... I went straight in for the city and won by a sliver. Obviously, I razed the city, not so much about maint. costs, more because I know how founding outside of historical borders negatively impacts stability...

    Lost confusism to Rome! Got Taoism though and theocracy via the oracle... started pushing out GPs for Devine Right but after getting it, decided to give up when I realized that Japan was already at 10 Million pop! (I had just pasted 2 million at the time...)

    Going to have to say it was a fun game, but I prefer leaving China alone and going the old route via judaism-budda-hindu-christianity-islam... Once I get judaism, it's pretty consistant to win the UHV...
     
  13. 5StarGen.Xeno

    5StarGen.Xeno Chieftain

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    Like I said before it's better to leave China so you can trade food resources with them. That's how I kept my cities healthy, I traded a lot with Persia and China. Oh and I went back to see when the Independent cities would found the religions if I didn't, and Jerusalem got Judaism on turn 45 I think. The one that was most surprising though was 1 turn after I would've founded Hinduism, Sur got it instead. I was real lucky there! So go for Judaism if you think luck is on your side or attack China to get at least 1 of their religions. Again the only bad thing is you won't beable to trade with them for food, and Japan might start building colonies in China...
     
  14. NitroJay

    NitroJay Chieftain

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    Yes, if you rish China, Japan takes over... In my most recent game, I killed off China early and found Japan there later... Just 3-4 cities maybe on the coast (I didn't really get a good look), but it was enough to stop me from ever having a chance at #1 in pop... When I was at 5 million, they were at 11... I didn't finish the game out though, I figured I didn't have much of a chance catching up...
     
  15. the_man_

    the_man_ Chieftain

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    Yeah, Japan does get big if you take out china.  But I've built that city in south china up to size 20 (which is like 14 mil or something), so japan can still be beat.

    Basically, the advantage of taking out china is being able to found Confucianism instead of Islam, a free worker, and early access to copper. You end up having more population and food resources with a Chinese city or two, but also end up having to because of a strong Japan.

    Stability isn't really a problem with India, even with expansion into China, because you never go into anarchy from switching civics.

    Another option would be just to steal their worker. But then you have an at war China, which causes problems later....
     
  16. NitroJay

    NitroJay Chieftain

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    I'm actually playing a game right now that is one my more weirder Indian games... Not sure if I'll get to the UHV, but it's definatley a more interesting game...

    I went for hindu/budda first and sent warriors to take out China. Captured beijing and kept it... You're right, stability hasn't taken as much of a hit as I had thought it would, but maint. costs are becoming a problem.

    After getting my first two religions, i went for the theology techs for my oracle. Actually missed judaisim (which i had given up on) by 2 turns! I figure with some more management, I may be able to reload this game and get it, but I was having fun and kept it going.

    Popped theology from the oracle, then went to research math... Actually had to reload this a couple times... It was founded in a distant land (?) a couple of time when i was close... But by this time I had 5 cities (2 in india - 3 in china) and 2 or 3 of them had libraries working scientists, still growing, maxing on research... It took some tweaking with the resources, starving a city or two for a few turns, but I got math first (third reload). I'm currently trying to rush to calendar to avoid devine right all together... I know Japan tends to go right to it though.

    As for Japan, declared war on me right out of the box. Hasn't done anything about it though.

    I'm thinking if I can get taoism, I can really dominate pop since I'll have more turns and considering i control china, it should be easy. China cities are growing and aside from librarys/granary and settlers/workers have been producing nothing but military... The barbs are out of control there. India is free from the burden of priests and temples since i'm not oing for devine right, so my economy and growth are doing well there also.

    After Taosim, I desperatly need code of laws though... maint. costs are the only thing currently holding me back. I'll finish out this game and post some screen shots... it's like a different india, it's actually fun! Even if I don't get taoism, I might play this out to the end just to see how it turns out...
     
  17. the_man_

    the_man_ Chieftain

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    let me know how going for calendar works. Usually either egypt or carthage beat me to it.

    If you end up popping a great prophet, you can always use him to get code of laws for you... provided you haven't researched monarcy.
     
  18. NitroJay

    NitroJay Chieftain

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    I didn't think of that... I used to my prophet for a shrine... At the time, I really needed money...

    Someone gets Taoism 3 turns before me... I've done a reload, still didn't make it. Going to try another time though...

    You know, the Indian UHV isn't as hard as it used to be... Kind of... someone said it before, but I think the hardest part isn't the religions, it's the population... Taking China out works, but it makes the religions harder (in my opinion).

    Does nayone have any pop suggestions or city placement? I'm always the BARELY making it... I max food and trade for health, but is there anything I'm missing? I typically win with 5-7 million spread over 3-5 cities, but some of you are posting 10+... What am I missing?

    Also, does anyone know if the independants count toward the pop ranking?
     
  19. JiimBV

    JiimBV Afro Samurai

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    It's possible to win the Indian UHV with one city, with China still alive. I don't see why it should be a problem with cities all over India.

    However, my favourite spots are Dilli on the spot (can reach a HUGE population), Patliputra, a city on the hill on the east coast, and a city on a hill on the SW coast. I forget the names of the last two (haven't played for a while), but the latter is 2 N and 1 W of the southern cow, and the former is on some river and right next to another cow. Sorry to be so unhelpful. One size 19 city (i.e. Dilli) can easily out populate China, and with some 12/13/14s you should be able to crush China population-wise. You'll need to trade around for health resources a lot, however, and hereditary rule is absolutely essential. Health > Happiness = Big Pop, because with HR, Soldiers = Happiness.
     
  20. the_man_

    the_man_ Chieftain

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    I decided to see just how far I could take this whole chinese invasion thing.... Instead of founding my capital in india, I made it on over to south china, and founded my city there. It takes 9 turns to found where I did, but i think that's the best spot. I must have been lucky, because i still somehow managed to make it to Judaism before it got founded in Jerusalem first. So i managed to found, buddhism, hinduism, judaism, used the oracle on mathematics to get confucianism, then used a prophet and finished researching for theology. Managed to found 5 religions by 190 BC, the fastest I've been able to yet.

    Once japan showed up, I tried an unsuccessful invasion, and instead just blockaded him with some triremes and galleys to make sure japan stayed small.

    With japan and china out of the way, I had absolutely no problem being number 1 in population.


     

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