Kool Keith
Warlord
It isn't clear to me what the industrious trait does.
I play vanilla with the Civ III Complete.
Thanks.
I play vanilla with the Civ III Complete.
Thanks.
Industrious Trait
- Thread starter Kool Keith
- Start date
Mirc
Not mIRC!!!
In Vanilla, it's clearly the best of all.
All your workers perform all actions twice as fast. And you'll get some cheaper city improvements (forgot which ones).
Edit: Crosspost....
Wow, I wonder... Why do I always crosspost with someone??!
All your workers perform all actions twice as fast. And you'll get some cheaper city improvements (forgot which ones).
Edit: Crosspost....
Wow, I wonder... Why do I always crosspost with someone??!
Synobun
Deity
- Joined
- Nov 19, 2006
- Messages
- 24,884
In Vanilla, it's clearly the best of all.
All your workers perform all actions twice as fast. And you'll get some cheaper city improvements (forgot which ones).
Edit: Crosspost....
Wow, I wonder... Why do I always crosspost with someone??!
Haha, I wonder why too
Synobun
Deity
- Joined
- Nov 19, 2006
- Messages
- 24,884
Not cheaper, only reduces time for production.
That's more of an indirect effect of the trait since you'll be able to increase a city's shield output faster and since you get bonus shields in the city center when the city reaches size 7 (you're supposed to, anyway; I recently read about a test that found otherwise).
TimBentley
Deity
Industrious doesn't add a shield until size 13 (in C3C at least). I seem to remember people saying it added a shield at size 7 for vanilla though.
Twonky
King
Virtual Alex
King
What about half prive Granaries? Or is that agricultural? Or is that C3C only?
I am the wrong person to be answering this.
I am the wrong person to be answering this.
thetrooper
Misanthrope
- Joined
- May 24, 2004
- Messages
- 9,079
Edit: Crosspost....
Wow, I wonder... Why do I always crosspost with someone??!
Oh Mirc, you only remark the crosspost if you post the same info as the other one(s)...
There is no such thing as half priced granaries! Not for vanilla, not for ptw, not for C3C, not for agri civs, not for ind civs, not for exp civs, not for sea civs, not for com civs, not for exp civs, not for mil civs, not for rel civs...
Virtual Alex
King
Well I suppose that settles that. 
thetrooper
Misanthrope
- Joined
- May 24, 2004
- Messages
- 9,079
Well I suppose that settles that.
Not quite - I think I forgot one trait in there...
psweetman1590
Emperor
Why on earth would Scientific civs get one though? And you listed exp. civs twice. Besides, this is definitive enough:
Besides, this is definitive enough:MAS
Deity
Wow, this thread is overflowing with miss-information
To set the record straight:
When you plop a city on top of a bonus grassland, the bonus shield will not appear until the city is size 7. (hence the confusion, its just the bonus grass shield (doesn't work for plains though)
Industrious civs get 2 extra shields in metropolises (size 13)
In vanilla Industrious workers work 2 times as fast. (and I'm talking about the turns it take to mine/irrigate/road a tile)
In C3C Industrious workers work 1.5 times as fast.
The rules for completing structures are the same for industrious civs, this is not Civ4, where some features double the production speed of some structures.
In civ3 some traits halves the cost of some structures. (the outcome is almost the same, I know) Example: For a religious civ, a temple cost 30 shields instead of 60.
The industrious trait doesn't have cheaper buildings though.
Agricultural civs get cheaper aquaducts.
To set the record straight:
When you plop a city on top of a bonus grassland, the bonus shield will not appear until the city is size 7. (hence the confusion, its just the bonus grass shield (doesn't work for plains though)
Industrious civs get 2 extra shields in metropolises (size 13)
In vanilla Industrious workers work 2 times as fast. (and I'm talking about the turns it take to mine/irrigate/road a tile)
In C3C Industrious workers work 1.5 times as fast.
The rules for completing structures are the same for industrious civs, this is not Civ4, where some features double the production speed of some structures.
In civ3 some traits halves the cost of some structures. (the outcome is almost the same, I know) Example: For a religious civ, a temple cost 30 shields instead of 60.
The industrious trait doesn't have cheaper buildings though.
Agricultural civs get cheaper aquaducts.
So Expansionist civs get scouts and better results of goody hut. That's not much of an advantage!
1. You get a free scout and get to build scouts.
Well scouts have the same movement as horseman. So why not build horseman. They can be built really early.
2. You get to build explorers
Well you could just as well build cavs. They are good offenders and are formidable on defence.
3. You get better results from a goody hut.
That is the only sort-of good thing with expansionist civs. But you won't see to many goody huts anyway so that doesn't really matter.
Well, expansionist civs are clearly the worst for me. No cheaper building s, no free techs, no quicker chances of being an elite, no free anarchy turns. And the list just goes on. A scout and better results from a goody hut, well it sounds like a pretty bad trait.
1. You get a free scout and get to build scouts.
Well scouts have the same movement as horseman. So why not build horseman. They can be built really early.
2. You get to build explorers
Well you could just as well build cavs. They are good offenders and are formidable on defence.
3. You get better results from a goody hut.
That is the only sort-of good thing with expansionist civs. But you won't see to many goody huts anyway so that doesn't really matter.
Well, expansionist civs are clearly the worst for me. No cheaper building s, no free techs, no quicker chances of being an elite, no free anarchy turns. And the list just goes on. A scout and better results from a goody hut, well it sounds like a pretty bad trait.
1. Scouts are cheaper than horsemen or chariots and do not require resources. Also, AI civs will never tell you to remove or declare on account of a scout.
2. Same with scouts vs. horses, but everyone can build explorers, not just expansionists.
3. This can be pretty powerful, depending on what you get. Check out some of the HOF space race and diplomatic games with the Russians to see what I mean.
The expansionist trait can be very strong or almost useless--it all depends on what you get from the huts. It is worthless on Sid, where the best you can get from a hut is gold or maps. Also, keep in mind that expansionist civs start out with pottery and can thus build granaries right away. True, agricultural civs start with it as well (irrrelevant if you're playing vanilla or PTW, of course), but it's a point in the expansionist trait's favor nonetheless. Every trait has its uses.
MAS
Deity
I admit, I'm not thrilled by the expansionist trait, but its not as bad as you put it.
Remember the exponential growth factor: When you increase your power in an early turn, you can use that power to increase you power even more the turn after that.
The earlier you can get an advantage, the more turns before the end of the game you have to multiply that advantage.
So at the end of the game, the advantages you gained very early are usually the biggest factor in your total power.
One of the first things I often do when I play an expansionist civ, to maximize the benefit of the expansionist trait, is build 2 more scouts after my starting scout, and send them in different directions.
This is not just to pop goody huts, but more importantly, to make contact with all the other civs as fast as possible.
The more civ you know that know a tech, the cheaper that tech is for you.
The other civ likely do not have contact with each other yet, so it should be easy to trade all of their starting tech, and even the first tech they researched for only the 2 tech you started with.
Then you start popping huts and get the more expansive non-starter tech from them.
The expansionist trait is only really bad when you are stuck on an island.
It is at its most powerful on pangaea maps.
As for the goody huts: The biggest advantage expansionist civs get here is that they are guarantied to not pop barbarians from them, even if you use a non-scout unit to pop the hut.
At higher difficulty levels, early barbs can be a real pain, so much even most people even avoid popping huts at the higher levels.
