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Infantry/artillery now require oil?

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by funkymunky, Apr 16, 2019.

  1. historix69

    historix69 Chieftain

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    Oil is usually not required to build units but to move units. The Germans in WW2 had 150 or so divisions in the east, but hardly enough fuel for all. Most units were not motorized and walked by foot, using horse waggons for supplies. They often used trains (-> coal) to move armies. The 1942 summer offensive did target sowjet oil fields, not Moscow, while most of the front did not move much.
    The only nations with an abundance of oil in WW2 were the USA and Great Britain, controlling most of the known and not destroyed global oil reserves.

    If your neighbours have oil and you don't, conquer it or trade for it.
     
    glider1 and Infixo like this.
  2. criZp

    criZp Warlord

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    "just conquer it with your inferior units bro xD"
     
  3. S1AL

    S1AL Chieftain

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    I'm one of those people who finds it more annoying that Iron becomes obsolete than that everything requires oil... but everything requiring oil is also insane. Resource distribution is awful. Reveal locations are awful. Niter being a strategic resource is hilariously ahistorical and awful. Planes requiring aluminum for maintenance is just... what, they eat Alumin-o's as part of this complete breakfast?
     
  4. historix69

    historix69 Chieftain

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    Prior to WW1 global niter deposits were mostly controlled by the british. The germans invented https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haber_process which allowed them to synthesize ammonia. Otherwise the Entente would have probably won WW1 in 1914-15 when german army's ammo supplies were depleted.

    In the game this could be realized by having an industrial building which supplies the nation with niter, making niter resources on the map less relevant.


    If you lack oil and have an abundance of coal, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal_liquefaction might be a solution. Turn part of your coal into oil.

    If your neighbours have oil and you don't, try to conquer it BEFORE the age of world wars (WW1 / WW2) or try to win peacefully.
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2019
  5. Abaxial

    Abaxial Chieftain

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    There's oil and oil. Civ VI oil is petroleum. If you want to oil your rifle, you don't use petrol. As historix said above, even in WW2, infantry were still basically footsloggers. There is a reason why mechanised infantry are a different breed.

    And again, the problem is not so much that it is unrealistic as bad from a gameplay point of view. It means infantry might as well not exist.

    The infantry upgrade path was much better in Civ V.
     
    TheMeInTeam and Trav'ling Canuck like this.
  6. stealth_nsk

    stealth_nsk Warlord

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    Iron is required for RailRoads, it's not obsolete.
     
  7. NukeAJS

    NukeAJS Chieftain

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    I don't see why infantry require oil. Maybe a one time use like how things are for iron/horses/niter, but the oil upkeep causes me to either keep them as muskets or delete them. Too many units require oil and there's typically too little on a map to justify upgrading to infantry.
     
  8. Pietato

    Pietato Warlord

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    You also get hit with a negative Diplomatic Favour as soon as you as start using upkeep units.
     
  9. Slip de Garcon

    Slip de Garcon Chieftain

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    That's what's the oddest thing here.

    Clearly rifles require oil.

    Bazookas and those little machine pistols AT crews use to defend do not.

    Yup, makes sense...
     
    Trav'ling Canuck likes this.
  10. officially4h

    officially4h Chieftain

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    Why dont infantry try missiles.
     
    Trav'ling Canuck likes this.
  11. S1AL

    S1AL Chieftain

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    Let me clarify: Niter as a strategic resource prior to industrial-scale warfare is... odd, and inaccurate. There are lots and lots of ways to synthesize the various components of gunpowder. Obviously the circa 9th Century Chinese did not have access to the Chilean Niter mine.

    Heck, if we wanted some historically-accurate sources: sewers.

    Most of the upgrade paths in V made more sense. But the comparison of tanks to infantry is the single best point.

    I'm also annoyed by how few sources of oil there are on a normal civ map, relative to how many (historically exploitable) sources exist IRL. And the spawn restrictions make no sense.

    I like the idea of strategic resources as a rate-limiter for warfare, but the implementation could have used a lot of work. And decreasing the spawn quantity in Gathering Storm (several strategics were reduced) has me all kinds of confuzzled.
     
    Trav'ling Canuck likes this.
  12. L4Psha

    L4Psha Chieftain

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    I think about oil requirement as for oil needed for supply and logistics of an infantry. Trucks, trains on places and for supply from center are all consume oil and for artillery it especially true because of amount of ammunition it consumes.
     
    DutchJob and acluewithout like this.
  13. criZp

    criZp Warlord

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    Riddle me this, how come these units don't have improved mobility if they are motorised as you suggest?

    You got me curious. How do you turn sewer into gunpowder, especially using centuries old methods?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2019
    Pietato likes this.
  14. Bibor

    Bibor Doomsday Machine

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    TLDR: there should be another tech segment between "Modern" and "Atomic", otherwise we're stuck with infantry and artillery costing oil.

    Infantry was just infantry. Basically the same thing as crossbowmen, except the armor was cheaper and the weapon was stronger.
    Mechanized infantry is, well, mechanized. Trucks, APVs. Basically mounted crossbowmen, again with less armor.

    In Civ6, Infantry doubles for WWI and WW2 infantry, while mechanized infantry is basically modern infantry. This is a nonsense that carries over in every iteration of Civ game except Civ5.
    However, Civ5 also proved that it's somewhat redundant to have both in the game, as by the end, tech gets discovered so quickly, technological advances that would previously take centuries were done in decades or even years.

    Pretty much the same thing happens with artillery.
     
  15. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    efflorescence.. bury your waste and water it.
     
  16. Patine

    Patine Warlord

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    Looks like WW2 calibre armies are just not possible now. Not enough oil to go around...
     
  17. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    It’s not that bad as long as you use cards and have some size and grow when feeling ‘well enough’.

    However they have pushed this game to be hugely luck based now. It was bad enough before, where finding the right 3 CS before anyone be else gives a big lead but finding yourself with 3 iron/niter/oil resources is a game changer
     
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  18. Pietato

    Pietato Warlord

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    In my latest Huge Continents map with abundant resources, there are ZERO water sources of oil. There are also only two sources of uranium on my massive continent.

    Actually, now that we have the search feature, we can post how much resources are on our maps.
     
  19. Abaxial

    Abaxial Chieftain

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    Actually, horses were more important for transport! Or trains, and they used coal, not oil.
     
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  20. Bibor

    Bibor Doomsday Machine

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    The simple solution, for a future expansion perhaps, is to have resources pool into a new value called "supply" that then gets spent on units per turn.
    For example Iron and horse could add 2 supply per turn, niter 4, while oil 10 or something like that. They can keep the requirements for some units (aircraft, ships), don't care.

    The alternative would be to have 3 key techs lift resource requirements for older units, like when you reach mech. infantry, regular infantry stops having an oil requirement.

    Entering the modern era with only machine guns as the only unit you can produce w/o resource is really dumb game design, no other more politically correct word comes to mind.
     
    Elhoim likes this.

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