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Infantry: The best unit in the game?

eyrei

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Playing as the Romans on a large pangea map on monarch level, I found myself threatened by the French for about the 20th time, and I had finally had enough. They declare war, and then every turn for the next 5, another civ declares war on me until I am fighting every one of the reasonably powerful civs in the game. Germany is caught on my side because of an MPP.

Anyway, I had just discovered replaceable parts, and luckily had rubber already connected to a road. As stacks of cavalry at least 30 deep for 3 of my enemies enter my territory at about the same time, I realize I will have to fight very defensively. I mobilized my economy, and started drafting from every city that I could.

Now, for the point. Before this patch, cavalry would have always retreated when losing to my infantry (which happened more often than not considering the attack/defense ratio. Now, about half of them fought to the death. The true benefit of this, is not that I killed more cavalry, but that my conscript infantry often advanced to elite within a couple of turns. Suddenly I had nearly impervious defenders in my cities, as well as an army of veteran infantry. The AI proceeded to pillage quite a bit of my land, eventually raised on outlying city (which I promptly rebuilt), and generally make me really angry, but for every infantry I lost, they lost about ten cavalry. On the turn I drafted an infantry unit, its first job was to attack a damaged or healthy cavalry, and advance to regular if the cavalry did not retreat. Then, the AI would throw several more cavalry at it, and unless it got really unlucky, it would eventually advance to elite, and might even survive.

Were it not for the inability of cavalry to retreat every time, this game would have been over very quickly. As it is, I am still alive, and playing for a diplomatic victory. I have about 20 elite infantry fortified along my borders, and the other civs have reason to fear me, because I have not forgotten their treachery.
 
Originally posted by eyrei
Now, for the point. Before this patch, cavalry would have always retreated when losing to my infantry (which happened more often than not considering the attack/defense ratio. Now, about half of them fought to the death.
Yes!
More often than not did I have to fight against hordes of horsemen/knights/cavalry sent by the AI in an hopeless effort to take over my cities. Of course, they would always retreat, making this war a pain, since I had to bring fast units quickly to the front to chase the surviving units. Now with the new patch, I just can sit on my chair looking at the AI losing most of its units to my static defenders. :ar15:
Now, what did firaxis come up with? This surely breaks AI's most favourite attack strategy. The dreadful longbowmen capturing my workers? :D

loki
 
I think this was partially intended to make war more bloody, especially in the mid-industrial age. Infantry are the standard unit at this point (if you are without rubber, and a war breaks out, you are screwed). Now, the highest attack values are 6 (infantry and cavalry) and the highest (and very common) defense value is 10! Without the assurance of cavalry retreating, it is almost preferable to commit to trench warfare, WWI style. Cavalry now get mauled by infantry units on offense and defense, which is how it should be. These units ARE from different ages. Retreating from pikemen or even musketmen is quite possible, given the lack of range and inaccuracy of their weapons, and to a lesser degree, the same goes for riflemen. But infantry have very accurate, powerful rifles, that do not have to be reloaded every shot. Horses are fast, but they cannot outrun bullets, especially when infantry could get in several shots before the cavalry made it out of range.
 
Boots, rubber to make gun parts?
 
Just think of how fun it will be when you mechanize.
 
The patch does reduce the effectiveness of calvary, thereby increasing the effectiveness of other units. Therefore before tanks come out infantry are tough to dislodge.

IMO, the reason for the problem is that the AI does not bombard. Humans can wear down defenders with cannons/artillery. I have never seen the AI bring units to "besiege" me. I suspect the reason is that the risk for the AI to lose the cannon units is too high.
 
The difference between offense and defense in civ3 as with civ2 and civ1 in the main is that generally in defending one city meets the offensive power of a civilisation that is why even if at high cost the attacker should win...sheer numbers at one point. When I attack I try to apply my fully weight at one location at a time unless I am certain the opposition is weak to fall by lighter strokes.
 
Originally posted by History_Buff
Just think of how fun it will be when you mechanize.

Don't get me wrong, I do love mechanized infantry, but they have only a slight advantage against tanks (16:18), while infantry have a huge advantage over cavalry (6:10). Also, Infantry are at an advantage far longer than mech. infantry.

Posted by swt1
IMO, the reason for the problem is that the AI does not bombard. Humans can wear down defenders with cannons/artillery. I have never seen the AI bring units to "besiege" me. I suspect the reason is that the risk for the AI to lose the cannon units is too high.

I agree. One of the other reasons I really enjoy fighting in the time of infantry, is that, for this reason, the human has a very distinct advantage over the AI. Cavalry, or infantry can usually take out a defending infantry with one hit point.
 
Thanks God. I'll be sure to stockpile rubber from now on before mounting an offensive.
 
Caverly (sp?) are still quite important though, I feel. Against Infantry they do have a large problem, but used right they can still cause a lot of damage due to their 3 movement points when used in conjunction with tanks. I got into a war with the Egyptians (2nd largest Civ, I was 1st) when I was just starting upgrading from Cav to Tank. Therefore I had a large Cavavly surplus which I could throw away. But instead I tried to use it to good advatage. With the Cav being able to wear down units, it's great to use when a stack of tanks fail on the target. I try to attack at multiple points at the same time in order to a.) Impede an enemy counter attack and b.) try to keep weaken the enemy as fast as possible. However, sometimes I send too little tanks, and what with the tanks usually having to spend one turn getting close to the cities, and the next attacking, if I miscalculate the attack force I am left with 1 Infantry defending with 1 or 2 hitpoints, but with no way to destroy them with tanks. Therefore I just sent one or two Cavarly to the target, and usually that would finish them off. So in a Blitzkreig situation they are actually quite a bit of use.
 
I don't think you can underplay the value of Mech. Infantry before Modern Armor comes out, mainly because they have an advantage against tanks on the offensive and defensive, plus they have an advantage against standard infantry.

The new rules as far as retreating units make artillery infinately more valuable. My 15 field pieces and moderate air force proved decisive in my victory over a much larger Egyptian army of tanks.

I can imagine the same is just exemplafied against Infantry. I can take cities fairly easily if you unload enough ammunition in them... the problem is it is time consuming, and there usually isn't much left of the city worth taking.
 
Originally posted by Greadius
I don't think you can underplay the value of Mech. Infantry before Modern Armor comes out, mainly because they have an advantage against tanks on the offensive and defensive, plus they have an advantage against standard infantry.

The new rules as far as retreating units make artillery infinately more valuable. My 15 field pieces and moderate air force proved decisive in my victory over a much larger Egyptian army of tanks.

I can imagine the same is just exemplafied against Infantry. I can take cities fairly easily if you unload enough ammunition in them... the problem is it is time consuming, and there usually isn't much left of the city worth taking.

This bothers me, too, and thus I don't like to kill a city with artillery when I'm trying to capture it. However, I guess it is realistic... That's why the Germans never invaded London in WW2, though they bombed the crap out of it. If they finally did take London, it would have been a burnt out husk of a city...

War sucks...
- Windwalker
 
The backbone of any army is the foot soldier. They protect the bombard units, they hold the land captured by the fast attack units, they protect the supply lines, they do most of the fighting and they do most of the dying.

Infantry, in particular, are excellent units, and when used carefully can defend against concerted tank attacks. When combined with artillery, they can be very powerful on the attack.

Infantry, "Do or Die"
http://www.crowncity.net/civ3/infantry.htm
 

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Yes I love Infantry. The other aspect that I look forward to having discover Nationalism is when I can start drafting citizens and pumping out 'freebie' infantry in every large city. It doesn't take too long to get 2 or 3 conscript infantry in every city - that should hold'em back while I regroup!

For its initial impact in the game and compared to other units available at that time - yep infantry are very desireable.

Mind you, the same sort of thing can be said when you first build cavalry and you oppononents still only have pikemen!

One of my other favorite turning points is bombers. It greatly increase your chances of taking a nearby city to be able to send out a dozen bombers (especially if they have little chance of being shot down by enemy fighters). This long-range bombardment (even given the probability factors) has been a deciding factor in many of my counter-offensives.
 
Not to forget that Infantry has the same attack value as cavalry. It can make a powerful attacking force if you don't have horses.

loki
 
Infantry cease to amaze me.
i was playing a regent game as the Egyptians on a small map. I was the most powerful and 3 other civs had been eliminated leaving me(egyptians), english and japanese.
The CHinese were eliminated by me really early and Iroqouis who were very weak went sucidal against me and were finished in a few turns. The Russians declared war on the English and were crushed.
Right from when i got knights and realized that the Japanese had no saltpeter i wanted to attack them. But i was discouraged when i saw their samurai wandering about. So i waited some more till i got cavalry.
The Enlgish decided to declare war on me so i sent 2 elite knights to English territory. The captured Leeds and i made peace. I went back to making an army to finish the Japanese.
I had quite alot of cavalry and just was waiting one more turn to get another cavalry in the stack, because the Japanese had riflemen.
And BTW they got nationalism in the 1400's and the whole world progressed about 4 techs in 300 years. There were so many wars.
But then i noticed English cavalry approaching Leeds. i braced myself and they took it easily. I decided to postpone Japn and made a MPP with them. I just got replaceable parts.
I decided to employ a tactic i had heard of before on taking over other continents.
Instead of loading all my galleons with cavalry that had been hanging around for 50 turns i loaded up infantry and a few cavalry and a cavalry army.
We took some English city which i heavily fortified with infantry. The Enlgish let loose all their knights and cavalary on this city. My regulars went to elite and i got another army. I later realized how much the English acctualy sent at this city, when i started seeing some already wounded knights attacking my city(The Japanese had been also fighting alongside with me).
They were getting desperate. After a few more rounds of cavalry i plan to send out my cavalry and raze the empire except save Magellans Voyage and the Pyraimids.

Heres a pic, i hope it works. Sorry for the odd colors(converting to gif screwed it up). As you can see all the infantry there.
 

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What causes fast unit NOT to retreat when they are about to die? Sometimes because they don't have enough movement points left. They are not supposed to be able to retreat vs. fast units. What other reasons?
 
Infantry kicks azz... even tankz loze to em sometimez, but I hav the key to warfare against them, so I kick azz every time, not like j00 r00kz.
 
Originally posted by IronicWarrior19
Infantry kicks azz... even tankz loze to em sometimez, but I hav the key to warfare against them, so I kick azz every time, not like j00 r00kz.

Is Barbara Streisand your mom? Cuz I think your head is about the same size as hers...I may be wrong of course, yours may be bigger...It's just sad it's only air....:rolleyes:

Spec.
 
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