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Infinity City Sprawl (ICS) Multiplayer Guide [Complete]

Discussion in 'Civ5 - Strategy & Tips' started by Free Gold, Jul 21, 2014.

  1. Free Gold

    Free Gold Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2013
    Messages:
    35
    Hello everyone, it's been roughly a year since I wrote the ICS piety empire guide. I have played a fair bit since that time (about 500 hours or so) and my strategy has been enhanced since then. In general, i'm an ICS player and as such am always looking to developing more comprehensive ICS strategies. For now, i'll use this guide to relay to you all the ICS strategies I use in multiplayer.

    Disclaimer: By no means is this guide made for competitive play. The strategy might or might not work depending on how good your opponents are. I do not play this game competitively. Still, this guide will teach you how to play ICS in public multiplayer games. Use your own judgement and experience to tailor it to your own skill level.

    Now onward to the guide;

    Introduction: What is Infinity City Sprawl?

    Infinity City Sprawl is a strategy which focuses on amassing a large amount of cities to be used in conjunction with either cultural policies or religious beliefs. Faith and production are the two main resources that benefit the most from having a large amount of cities. As such, there are in fact two main ways of playing Infinite City Sprawl. One is by building a production heavy empire, the other is by building a faith heavy one. Furthermore, the opening sequence in itself can differ based on your available resources, as you can get either food heavy or hammer heavy starts. As such, there are in total "4" different ICS builds. Knowing which sprawl to use is the first step in building the best possible empire.

    I would also like to mention that Infinity City Sprawl can sometimes be synonymous with a wide empire (an empire with a lot of cities). For the sake of this guide, I shall use these two terms interchangeably. If one must make a proper distinction between these two, however, it could be argued that a wide empire is simply one with more than 4 cities, whereas an ICS empire is one which settles the maximum number of cities possible with the given number of happiness available (more on this later). Sometimes my play style can be described as "semi-ICS" as I choose to sometimes stop at 10 cities, instead of say 18. I will still refer to this as ICS, however, for simplicity's sake.

    Generally you want to settle as many cities as possible as close to one another as possible. That means putting cities 3 tiles apart. If you put a city more than 3 tiles apart, the reward MUST be worth the extra 1 gold per turn you lose connecting that city to your capital. I.e putting a city on a hill is usually worth it. Putting a city closer to a natural wonder? Totally Worth it. Putting a city 1 tile further just for the sake of having an extra copy of a luxury you already have? To get cows? NOT worth it.

    Game Details:
    Map Size: Tiny and above.
    Game Speed: Quick. (I don't play standard since I don't play Single Player, sorry)
    Game Types: Pangaea/Fractal/Continents/Small Continents. (Anywhere with enough land to settle)

    What are the best CIVs to ICS with?

    Top Tier: Ethiopia, Maya, Poland, Egypt, Arabia, Songhai

    These Six CIVs are top tier ICS contenders due to their versatility or overall strength.
    • Ethiopia can spam Steles for one of the fastest religions in the game.
    • Maya can spam Shrines for massive early game science and faith. The free great person really help their early to mid game out, even at the expense of their late game.
    • Poland can acquire key ICS policies quicker (but still cannot into space)
    • Egypt can spam Burial Tombs for massive happiness and faith.
    • Songhai's temple is a weaker version of Egypt's, but is still good. I'd pick Egypt over Songhai 100 percent of the time, but if Egypt is taken then this still a top tier choice.
    • Arabia can spam Camel Archers/Bazaars and use the absurdly powerful desert folklore in most games.

    All five of these CIVs have something which the other CIV's lack; the ability to be played to the fullest regardless of type of sprawl. Byzantine, for instance, is a civilization that can only be played effectively in delayed sprawl (more on this later), so while it is extremely strong when you get the high food start you need, it is also extremely weak to borderline useless when you don't.

    Mid Tier (Coastal): Byzantium, Indonesia, Japan, Carthage.
    If you wish to build a coastal empire, nothing is better than a CIV with a coastal start bias. With that in mind, if you are indifferent between Coastal or Piety ICS, pick a top tier CIV instead.
    • Byzantium has the added benefit of getting multiple production pantheons
    • Indonesia can snag extra happiness by settling on a different continent/island
    • Japans finishing boat culture + free fishing boats from Samurais, and Carthage free Harbors all help your early game when sprawling on the coast.

    Mid Tier (Piety Empire): Celts, Spain, Shoshone, Russia, Rome, Huns, Siam

    • The Celts can acquire a fast religion, the only problem is that they are too reliant on forests, much like Arabia is to desert. This, coupled with the fact that forests slow down sprawl by hindering settler movement speed, results in them being downgraded. (Arabias deserts actually make sprawling easier, despite being as luck reliant as forests).

    • Spain with One with Nature for early faith is OP, but is far too luck reliant to be considered top tier.
    • Shoshone have great early game expansion but lack the faith engine (aside from turn 30 onward faith ruins) or production to be considered top tier.
    • Russia's extra hammers bonus is amazing at ICS, but the tundra start as well as a lack of a good unique building for ICS makes it a good, but not amazing CIV.
    • Huns: A much better version of Russia for ICS. The extra hammers go nicely with spamming shrines for a quick religion. The lack of a unique building is a downside, however. Still, this is an amazing CIV to play if you want to faceroll somebody.
    • Rome: A bit weak due to a lack of a unique building and the fact that their unique units aren't as good in BNW as they were in earlier expansions. The unique ability, however, gives it some credibility for ICS
    • Siam: A bit reliant on allying a faith city state, but when you do it sure pays off. Do whatever it takes to ally city states. Mid game, the culture you get from your universities also helps out in blazing through the tech tree.

    Bottom Tier: Korea, Persia, Iroqious, Austria, Germany, China

    • Korea's benefit is amazing once you get great person slots in all your cities, problem is that the benefit comes a bit too late. It also requires heavy infrastructure building which might not happen due to invasion. When it works, however, the payoff is HUGE. 10+ cities each working great scientist slots can produce a lot of science per turn.
    • Persia's Satrap Court +2 happiness was to die for back in GnK. Now, due to the lack of tile gold, Bank and Market improvements have fallen in build priority, and with it the Satrap Court. This is still a great building but Persia has very little ways of getting an early great prophet aside from doing the delayed ICS strategy. Much like Korea, the ICS bonus comes far too late.
    • Iroqious would be a wonderful CIV if only forests didn't hinder settler movement. While this problem is less than the Celts (due to forests inside your borders acting as roads), fact of the matter remains that Iroqious have no real way of generating early faith (unlike the Celts) Likewise does this unique building come a bit late, especially in the piety build order. Their unique unit is also pretty worthless aside from undefended cities. A composite bowmen or two would usually spell death for your entire army.
    • Austria's coffee house is nice late game, but that's about it.
    • Germany likewise suffers in Austria's weakness. The Hanse, while being ridiculously strong mid-late game, requires too much infrastructure to build up. This limits Germany's play to delayed ICS. In multiplayer, the Hanse can be completely countered by embargo city states or pillaging your trade routes, so there is that. Still, this is by far one of the strongest low tier civs - I was almost tempted to include it into mid tier.
    • China is a decent CIV, but the only way to play it wide is to do a delayed ICS. You can't just spam out libraries early game, you have better stuff to build. And by the time you do spam them out, you've already gotten the gold from your religion. Still, it's a nice bonus, but once again, it doesn't give you a quick religion.

    Everything else: Not suited for ICS.

    Note: Almost all CIVs listed here can be played as a coastal empire. The only reason I listed only 3 is because only those three had the coastal start bias promotion. Russia and the Huns, in specific, are great coastal empires despite not having the coastal bias.

    The Four Types Of ICS:

    As mentioned earlier, there are four main types of ICS that I have come up with. They are as follows:
    • ICS Coastal Empire
    • ICS Piety Empire
    • ICS Coastal Empire (Delayed Sprawl)
    • ICS Piety Empire (Delayed Sprawl)

    You could argue that there "there are only really two", but because the first 80 or so turns play out completely different depending on what strategy you decide to use, I have decided to separate them into four different strategies.

    ICS Coastal Empire -The Production Empire-

    Requirements: Coastal Start and two Hills or equivalent (Salt, hills with forest you can chop, etc) within reach of your capital. Enough room to settle 7-8 cities all on the coast.

    This strategy has one aim; outproduce everybody in the game. Getting 300 hammers by turn 120 is usually your benchmark, although this varies on start. I usually aim for 1000 hammers by turn 200, assuming that the game is still ongoing by then. This strategy achieves this goal through a few primary factors:

    Policies:
    • Maritime Infrastructure (+3 hammers per city)
    • Republic (+1 hammer per city)
    • 5 year plan (+2 hammer per city)
    • Iron Curtain (+25% production to cargo ship yield)
    • Party Leadership (+1 hammer per city)

    Faith Beliefs:
    • God of Craftsman: (+1 production per city of 3 pop)
    • God of Sea (+1 production per fishing boat)
    • Guruship (+2 production if specialist worked)
    • Religious Community (+1% production per believer in city up to 15%)

    Buildings:
    • Workshop
    • Factory
    • Water mill
    • Cargo Ship (can deliver +production to cities if directed from a city with a workshop build)
    Other buildings come too late (nuclear plant *cough*, but could still be used)

    Build Order (Capital)

    1. Monument
    2. Scout
    3. Shrine
    4. Worker
    5. Settler (you should have collective rule by now, if not build a scout to steal city state workers)
    6. Spam Settlers (until you hit -4 or so unhappiness, including the happiness luxuries would give once connected)
    7. Archer/Composite (as needed)
    8. Colosseum
    9. Library
    10. Workshop/Cargo Ship (Send Cargo Ships to other cities for production)
    11. From then on, prioritize Units (enough to keep you safe, or win a war)
    12. Happiness buildings
    13. Science Buildings
    14. Production Buildings (including Cargo Ships)
    15. Food buildings (if you have too much excess happiness)
    16. Gold production buildings
    Wonders should rarely be hard built, as they're usually a waste of production.

    Build Order (Other cities)

    1. Shrine/Monument
    2. Shrine/monument (Shrine if Maya, monument if Ethiopa first. All other Civs, shrine first)
    3. Archer/Composite
    4. Colosseum.
    5. Workshop
    6. Library
    7. From then on, prioritize same thing as in the capital (except cargo ships, these cities tend to take too long to build one early on.)

    Religious Policy Order

    Pantheon: Anything that can speed up your religion. You should be able to get an extra 3 faith or more per turn from your pantheon, if you can't then you should get God of Craftsman or God of the Sea or God-King. I prefer God-King over God of Craftsman, unless I know i'll have an abundance of early game happiness to get my cities to 3 pop.

    Founder Belief: Initiation Rights or Church Property. Initiation Rights is usually better with this strategy, but it might be already taken.

    Follower Beliefs: Religious Community or Padogas. If you have 10+ faith output per turn, get Padogas. Else get religious community first.

    Follower Belief (upgrade): Guruship, Religious Community, Padogas, or Ascetism.


    Cultural Policy Order

    Liberty Opener --> Republic --> Collective Rule --> Citizen ---> Meritocracy ---> Representation (delay for exploration/maritime/Naval)

    Exploration --> Maritime Infrastructure ---> Naval Tradition

    Representation --> Secularism ---> Humanism (Delay for Order, up to Worker Faculties) --> Free Thought (delay for Order, up to Worker Faculties)

    Order: Social Realism --> Hero of the People --> Workers Faculties --> Young Pioneers --> Iron Curtain

    Tech Order

    Pottery --> Animal Husbandry --> Mining --> Luxury Tech --> Bronze Working --> Luxury Tech --> Beeline to Construction --> Writing --> Beeline to
    Workshops ---> Sailing ---> Optics ---> Compass ---> Beeline to Education --> Astronomy ---> Navigation

    Tech order focuses on getting the empire started, amassing huge production as soon as possible from workshops + Cargo ship trade routes from workshops. Then it proceeds to use the high production to build a superior navy.

    Beeline to Industrialization --> Beeline to Public Schools --> Beeline to Chemistry --> Beeline to Public Schools --> Beeline to Refrideration (if fighting naval wars) else beeline to Railroads--> Beeline to Plastics --> Beeline to Railroads (if havn't done so already)

    Mid game tech order focuses more on research. Industrialization is gotten first as it allows for 3 factories -> Order (super important). Key naval and production techs are prioritized, too.

    Beeline to either Nuclear Fission or Nanotechnology. Depends if you want to build a nice capital collection or nuke everything to death. You should easily be able to build 1-2 nukes per turn.

    In general, this build focuses on production and science. A bit more emphasis is placed on science, since more science allows you to build better units, increasing the effective strength of your insanely high production.

    To play properly, try to isolate yourself off. If you're playing on a map which allows for coastal ICS, this shouldn't be too hard. You might have to invade your neighbor early on with a composite bow rush, however. Once you've isolated yourself, keep growing your cities. Once you have Frigades, you should be able to disband most of your army in favor of a navy and proceed to A) win the game by frig rushing everybody. B) keep stalling for more production. By late game, you should have such an absurd production that you can build everything you ever wish for and more than winning should be relatively easy.

    Early game, you want to get your basic units out (worker/scout) and then spam settlers from your capital like a madman. Settle as many coastal tiles as you can. You shouldn't bother settling inland tiles unless they happen to be too enticing to pass up (2+ luxuries, or a natural wonder). Build an archer army if you have to take out a person nearby, then the demand tribute function from city states to get gold to upgrade your archers to composites. If you don't have to invade, just focus on building infrastructure. Keep spamming cities until you hit -5 or so unhappiness, in which case you should stop and build infrastructure/units in capital. Start building settlers once you fix your unhappiness problem, either through road network happiness from liberty, padogas, mercantile city state, other luxuries you found that you can settle, etc. Generally you want to build 3 cargo ships 10 turns before you get your workshop. Then send them to capital. Once you build workshop in capital, you can immediately get 26 extra production from the cargo ships. That's ALOT of production early game. Whenever you get another cargoship, connect it to another city for more production.

    Mid to late game you want to keep enough units to keep yourself safe, but not too many that it causes you to go bankrupt. Keep an eye on demographics. You generally want to aim for top 3 in military units. Beware of upgrade rushes, however! Outdated units count for little in demographics, so if someone upgrades their entire army of cannons into artillery, they'd be going from "50,000" to "90,000" on demographics in a turn. Eventually your cities will hit critical load where they've built all the things they need to build so only building units are left. Use this time to amass a large standing army.

    Late game is when it's the easiest to win. Using a great scientist bulb to Nanotechnology is a quick way of finishing the game. With 600+ production, you can spam out two to three XCOMs per turn which will arrive with overnight delivery on the enemy's capital. At this point you could probably declare war on everybody on the map seeing as you already have a large standing army/navy as well as enough production for XCOM capital stealing.

    ICS Piety Empire -The Cheesing Empire-

    I feel that the term "cheesing" is the proper term that can be used to describe what this playstyle is all about. You sacrifice science and gold all in favor of the holy lord. Faith, not gold, is the currency in this empire and with reformation beliefs, you decide what to buy. This build is as versatile as it is annoying to deal with for the enemy. Your production keeps aggressors at bay. Your cities aren't worth taking and quite frankly there is just too many of them to deal with. Yet as long as the cities remain in your empire, you're getting massive benefit due to faith.

    These are this strategies key policies, buildings, and beliefs:

    Policies:
    • Collective Rule
    • Piety Opener
    • Organized Religion
    • Mandate of Heaven
    • Reformation

    Faith Beliefs:
    • God-King (+1 to faith, culture, food, gold, production in capital)
    • Pilgrimage (if you think you can spread it)
    • Mosque
    • Padogas
    • Cathedral
    • Monestary

    Buildings:
    • Shrine (+1 faith per city)
    • Padoga (+2 faith, culture, happiness per city)
    • Mosque (+3 faith, +2 culture, +1 happiness per city)
    • Monestary (+2 culture, faith per city)
    • Cathedral (+1 happiness, +1 culture, +2 faith per city)

    The piety empire hinges on reformation beliefs, namely Heathen Conversion, Jesuit Education, Sacred Sites, and To the Glory of God, to bring you to victory.

    Reformation Beliefs and their Uses

    Heathen Conversion:

    At first glance this policy looks underwhelming. "Why would I get this just to convert a barbarian warrior in a camp?" you might ask. The answer is that it can do a WHOLE lot more if played right. First of all, you can station a missionary two tiles away from a barb camp and convert any unit that spawns in barb camps to your side. Barbarians tend to spawn better units as the era progress, so you'll be getting a "modern" army for free! Raging barbarians? Even better. Free Units every turn. 5 barbarian camps? Might as well be 5 cities. Cities that produce units. Need a navy? Sail a missionary to a secluded barbarian island. Upgrade all the free boats they give you. The possibilities are endless.

    BUT WAIT! There's more! Ever wish you could take over every single city on the map and annex it? I know you have. Only problem is the unhappiness problem. With Heathen Conversion, your unhappiness problem turns into a unit factory! Once you hit -10 unhappiness, "rebels' spawn in your borders once every 2-5 turns. These rebels happen to be barbarians. Simply by moving a missionary into position, you convert those pesky rebels into hard working military units! Be warned, even though you are getting free units, you still have to pay gold for their upkeep. Also going beyond -10 unhappiness gives little to no added benefit. Barbarians still spawn at the same rate and in the same numbers. But each unhappiness reduces the combat effectiveness of your army. As such, its generally advised to keep yourself at -10 or as close to -10 unhappiness as possible when doing this strategy. Still, I've gone as high as -60 and had little issue. Free units every turn is just that good for a domination victory.

    Jesuit Education:

    Probably the only thing better than free units is free universities. And public schools. And research labs. Jesuit Education with 100 faith per turn might as well read "free universities, public schools, and research labs in all your cities upon researching the required tech". This belief allows you to buy science buildings (aside from libraries) with faith. It's 100 faith for a university, 210 faith for a public school, 320 faith for a research lab. This is a comparatively low amount when you have 10+ cities. Assuming you have shrines + padogas in each city, you're already generating +1 from shrines +1 from piety (shrines get +1), +2 from padogas = 4 faith per turn. That's 40 faith per turn already! Add in Mosques for another 30, or monestaries/cathedrals for another 20. Then factor in any unique building faith bonuses, such as Mayas +1 from shrines or Ethiopas +2 from monuments. Or perhaps Arabias desert folklore for another 20. Getting 100 faith per turn becomes incredibly easy.

    In essence, you save up faith and spawn great prophets. You plant them for more faith until you hit the research tech. Then you buy all the research buildings in all your cities for 1000 to 3200 faith. Once you hit industrial you stop spawning great prophets so you can save the required faith amount for the moment you hit the research techs. The moment you do, you just mass buy all the research buildings.

    Best part about this is the fact that with 10 cities, each working great scientist slots, you can generate a MASSIVE amount of great scientists over the course of the game. Turn 150 or so you begin spawning a great scientist every 5 or so turns. Then once you hit either Public Schools or Research Labs, you can wait 8 turns and then bulb all your great scientists at once. Getting 8000 beakers per scientist can easily put you at any late game tech you want *cough* XCOMs *cough*. Likewise does this strategy allow you to generate science even if all your cities are building units for war. You buy buildings with faith, not gold, so even if you're not building anything productive, all your cities still get maxed science buildings.

    Sacred Sites:

    This belief is by far the essence of cheese. Likewise is it the only way to actually win a culture victory in multiplayer (nobody is going to trade you great works of art). +2 tourism per building purchased with faith quickly gets out of hand when you have 15 cities with two buildings each. That's 60 tourism per turn! On turn 90! People simply won't have the defensive culture up to counter this. Only problem is meeting all the CIVs by then.

    On Pangaea/Fractal/Oval maps, you can use 2-3 scouts to find all the CIVs by the time you get Sacred Sites, so it shouldn't be a problem. The only way to make this strategy work on continent type maps, however, is using Maya. You can beeline to Theology and get a great admiral fairly early on. Then just sail the admiral away, avoiding coastal tiles as much as possible (barbarians autokill admiral, but can't sail ocean tiles). Once you meet everybody, you can spread your tourism to them.

    This is an "all-in" strategy, however. If you don't win cultural victory by turn 150, you're probably going to lose. Your science is going to be in shambles because of your 15 cities and lack of population. As such, you should only attempt this strategy when you know you can find every CIV in time for Sacred Relics, and have enough happiness to found 15 cities. (this usually requires luxury trading/allying city states)

    Still, it is possible to win even if your initial cultural push fails. Using Autocracy's futurism (+250 tourism per great artist/musician/writer spawned) in conjunction with delayed building of Guilds until you have futurism researched, you can tourism nuke all the civs on the map for 750 tourism every 10, 14, 16, 20 turns..(time it takes to generate a set of great people). You can also use great musicians to further nuke any stragglers.

    Likewise you can dip into order for a 67 percent tourism modifier. You can use the fact that you have dominant culture with more CIVs to force them to adopt Order. You can also just plain out invade any cultural stragglers and win a pseudo-cultural victory.

    Another thing you can abuse to your advantage is your 6-10 holy sites that are going to be spawned throughout the game. Place them all around one city then build an airport/hotel in that city. That city in itself should generate 20-40 tourism.

    To the Glory of God:

    This policy no longer adds to great person counter, making it a REALLY STRONG belief. Use Great Writers to max out the order track, and you have yourself an unstoppable empire. Then use great engineers to build key wonders, great scientists to further advance in the track, and great artists to always be in a golden age. A really great belief, overall.

    Another strategy one might use is to use Freedom's "New Deal" (Adds +4 to each great person tile) and plant all your great people. You would then use Freedom's Civil Society and Universal Sufferage (specialists consume half food/half happiness) to build a really TALL really WIDE empire with a massive amount of high yielding tiles. This is probably the best use of this belief. It's fun having 10 20 population cities when everybody else has only 3.

    Build Order (Capital)

    1. Monument
    2. Shrine
    3. Scout
    4. Worker
    5. Scout
    6. Settler (Start spamming settlers, keep spamming until you hit -5 or so unhappiness. With this strategy you want to make sure that you end up at 0 happiness the moment padogas become available. Stay at 0 happiness until all cities grow to their maximum size. If you get back to 4 happiness, build another settler)
    7. Archer/composite (build as needed, sometimes in between Settlers)
    8. Colleseum
    9. Units to maintain standing army (Order of Priority: 1)
    10. Happiness Buildings (order of priority: 2)
    11. Science Buildings (order of priority: 3)
    12. Production Buildings (Order of Priority: 4)
    13. Gold Production Buildings (Order of Priority: 5)
    14. Food Buildings (Order of Priority: 6...build if you need food to grow to maximum happiness)

    Build Order (Other Cities)
    1. Shrine
    2. Monument (except for ethiopia..monument first for them)
    3. Archer/Composite (build as needed)
    4. Colleseum
    5. Units to maintain standing army (Order of Priority: 1)
    6. Happiness Buildings (order of priority: 2)
    7. Science Buildings (order of priority: 3)
    8. Production Buildings (Order of Priority: 4)
    9. Gold Production Buildings (Order of Priority: 5)
    10. Food Buildings (Order of Priority: 6...build if you need food to grow to maximum happiness)

    Building order is relatively the same for all your cities. Emphasis on faith, not dying to your enemies, growing your cities to their maximum allotted size (more on this later). Less emphasis on production compared to coastal empire. (you're using faith to get most of the stuff you need.)

    Religious Build Order

    Unlike the coastal empire, you're going to be using your faith as a resource (much in the same way you would hammers), so a build order for faith is in needed.

    1. Great Prophet (Creates your first religion. Get Padogas asap.
    2. Padoga (one in each city)
    3. Great Prophet (Enhances religion. Pick Mosque/Cathedral/Monestary in order of importance. If going for Sacred Relics, pick Monestary more highly (it's 20 faith cheaper)
    4. Mosque/Cathedral/Monestary in all your cities
    5. Any science buildings with Jesuit Education. A few missionaries with Heathen Conversion. Great Peoples with To the Glory of God

    Religious Policy Order

    Pantheon: I usually take To the Glory of God. Gets your religion faster and helps your early sprawl (due to the production). If you have access to more faith, however, get that pantheon instead. (desert folklore, +1 faith from copper, etc.)

    Founder Belief: Initiation Rights or Church Property. Initiation Rights is still better.

    Follower Beliefs: Padogas. If you can't get them, get Mosques. If you can't get Mosques, get Cathedrals.

    Follower Belief (upgrade): Mosques, Cathedrals, Monestaries. You need the culture from these buildings almost as much as you need the happiness. Which is why we don't get Ascetism. +1 happiness is nothing compared to +1 happiness, +3 faith, and +2 culture which mosque delivers. In general, you want both buildings as well, since it allows for 100+ faith per turn to cheese with reformation beliefs)

    OUT OF ROOM
     
  2. danaphanous

    danaphanous religious fanatic

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2013
    Messages:
    1,501
    Interesting, this strat does overcome some of the problems with ICS. I too like to make many cities, just because it's more fun but I haven't been diligent enough to nerf my capital and keep it low pop, so I always end up not getting as many cities as I intended. I just feel NC is going to waste if I don't.

    Question: where is the Piety empire guide? I assume the only difference is you don't need coast and spam religious buildings with your superior faith, but it looks unfinished. It would mesh even better with asceticism as building a shrine gives +1 faith and happiness for only requisite 3-pop.

    Question: if you aren't carthage would you recommend road-building to connect your cities on the coast or just wait until harbors as they are so low pop they won't yield a lot of gold anyway? From a protection standpoint and moving workers quickly, having roads would help, but they'd become less useful when you switched to pure navy.

    Also, you neglect to mention how valuable CS's are in bringing in loads of early happiness. I would think another way of playing this would be to emphasize early gold and do CS quests to earn their luxuries instead of threatening them. Maritime CS are kinda useless until you are ready to grow all your 3-pop cities later-game, however, military CS, cultural CS, faith CS, and mercantile CS are all good. Any CS with 1-2 new luxes could enable that many more cities. A mercantile CS alone often gives you 2 new luxes (due to their unique ones) and +3 happiness for being friends/allies for a total of +11 happiness. On huge that's the happiness for 2 free new 3-pop cities even if the area has no new luxes and you don't build circus or colosseum. You could use initiation Rites to rake in the early gold as your religion spreads through your dozen or so tiny cities. Buy a CS and do some quests, then make more cities for more gold. I would add tithes to the list too. Especially if you have a powerful faith. Spamming some missionaries and spreading your religion into a couple neutral AI's early often yields far more gold than initiation rites, as their cities and your cities grow over time. All that extra gold can be used to continue to support a few earlier CS allies as well and go wider than would otherwise be possible. I can often play a tithes/piety game like I opened patronage I have so much extra gold floating around by T200.
     
  3. Free Gold

    Free Gold Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2013
    Messages:
    35
    Cultural Policy Order

    Regular Early Game Build
    1. Liberty Opener
    2. Republic
    3. Collective Rule
    4. Piety Opener
    5. Mandate Of Heaven
    6. Organized Religion
    7. Citizenship
    8. Meritocracy
    9. Religious Tolerance
    10. Reformation

    Sacred Relics Early Game Build
    1. Liberty Opener
    2. Republic
    3. Collective Rule
    4. Piety Opener
    5. Mandate Of Heaven
    6. Organized Religion
    7. Religious Tolerance
    8. Reformation
    9. Citizenship
    10. Meritocracy

    Generally you want to get road happiness bonus before your reformation belief, as you need time for all cities to finish building Padogas/Mosques. The only exception to this is when going for Sacred Relics, as the sooner you can get it the better. As such, there are two varying early game culture tracks.

    Regular Mid to Late Game Build

    1. Representation
    2. Rationalism
    3. Secularism
    4. Workers Faculties (Order)
    5. Humanism
    6. Free Thought
    Sacred Sites Mid to Late Game Build
    1. Representation
    2. Theocracy
    3. Aesthetics
    4. Cultural Centers
    5. Fine Arts
    6. Flourishing of the Arts
    7. Cultural Exchange
    8. Artistic Genius
    9. [Futurism from Autocracy can be gotten as a free social policy whenever. If you get order, prioritize the tourism policies, first.]

    Tech Order (Regular)

    1. Pottery
    2. Animal Husbandry
    3. Mining
    4. Luxury Tech
    5. Bronze Working
    6. Luxury Tech
    7. Beeline to Construction
    8. Writing
    9. Beeline to Machinery
    10. Beeline to Education
    11. Beeline to Industrialization
    12. Beeline to Scientific Theory
    13. Beeline to Plastics
    14. Beeline to Nanotechnology
    Science technologies are researched first, with industrialism (for Order via 3 factories) and strong units being the exception. It is imperative to spam science buildings either through Jesuit Education or hard building as to not fall behind. Nanotechnology is most easily reached through the use of great scientists en masse.

    Tech Order (Sacred Relics)
    1. Pottery
    2. Animal Husbandry
    3. Mining
    4. Luxury Tech
    5. Bronze Working
    6. Luxury Tech
    7. Beeline to Construction
    8. Writing
    9. Beeline to Machinery
    10. Beeline to Education
    11. Beeline to Astronomy
    12. Beeline to Industrialization
    13. Beeline to Refridgeration
    14. Beeline to Radar
    15. Beeline to Internet

    To play this build effectively, get Padogas as soon as possible and spam them in every single city. Micromanage your cities population (more on this below) for the most added benefit. Once all your cities have Padogas, get a second faith/culture generation building. Spam that in every city. Once you get road networks + meritocracy, consider what you need more; more cities or higher population cities. Generally if you're going for sacred relics, the answer is always more cities. But if going for Jesuit Education, i'd consider using the extra 10-12 happiness from road networks to grow your key science cities population out instead.

    Micromanagement

    To get full value out of these two strategies, you have to micromanage your cities population. This section will be a short one and will cover the main aspects of empire management.

    Micromanagement comes in three forms. Micromanaging your workers, micromanaging your cities worked tiles, and micromanaging your cities population.

    Micromanaging Workers

    Micromanaging workers means leaving them off automate. Putting workers on automate can be temping considering you have so much land and so many cities to improve. This, however, is a pitfall as often the workers don't work what they should. Your priority for workers is as follow

    1. Connect Luxury Resources
    2. Connect Strategic Resources
    3. Improve Production
    4. Build Key Road Networks (only if going to war or you have the meritocracy policy or you have the connecting city at 3 population or higher)
    5. Build forts (very rarely)

    Workers cost early game gold, so getting the most out of your workers is essential. Likewise should you micromanage your workers to build road networks that connect the most cities with as little amount of tiles as possible.

    Micromanaging Empire's Population

    You should only settle cities so long as you have the global happiness (happiness from wonders, luxuries, meritocracy road networks, etc) to sustain them. For instance, if you you're at 4 happiness you should settle a city. If you're at 0 happiness, you should only settle a city if that city would give you access you a luxury resource you don't already have. If you're at 0 happiness, but have luxuries you have yet to connect, count those luxuries as part of your happiness. i.e - if you have 3 unconnected luxuries and are at 0 happiness, then you have effectively 12 happiness. As each city adds -3 happiness (1 from population, 2 from base), you can effectively settle 4 cities.

    Once you get road networks and meritocracy, you get +1 happiness from each city. Use this happiness either to settle more cities (1 extra city for each 3 road networks) or grow your existing cities. Same thing applies for city states/traded luxuries/Notre Dame, etc.

    The second part of micromanaging empire's population is to manage each cities individual population. This is especially true in early game when you're restricted by the amount of luxury resources/happiness you can attain. You generally want to use the [] AVOID GROWTH function in all your cities, only allowing them to grow once they have the happiness to sustain themselves. As a rule of thumb you want your happiness building to cover the Local unhappiness from the first population. After that, you want 1 population for every local happiness. In short, you want your cities population to EQUAL the local happiness available due to buildings. Your global happiness should be used to build the empire more cities.

    Local Happiness Buildings:
    • Colleseum (+2)
    • Circus (+2)
    • Stone Works (+1)
    • Burial Tomb (+2)
    • Satrap Court (+2)
    • Ceiledil Hall (+3)
    • Zoo (+2)
    • Stadium (+2)

    Example: A city with a Circus, Colleseum, and Stone works has 5 local happiness. City should be allowed to grow until its Population equals Local Happiness (from buildings). Total local happiness available is +2 +2 +1 =5. Therefore city should grow to 5 and then be put to avoid growth.

    Still, at some point you should stop building cities. This usually happens when building an extra city would be stretching your empire too wide (into enemy territory). After you decide to stop expanding, use your global happiness as local happiness and allow key cities to grow. This is usually your capital and cities with good production/science bonuses (jungle cities, hill cities) followed by your gold cities.

    Micromanaging City Worked Tiles

    The next thing you should micromanage is what each citizen works in each city. Wide empires in general have way more available land to work, and way more citizens to work that land. Therefore, it is imperative that each citizen gets the most value per turn. You want to manually assign each citizen to the best possible tile. Since your cities are overlapped, you want to juggle your food and production around in each city to best suit that cities needs.

    A city that is currently under [*]Avoid Growth should only be working the bare minimum of food tiles to avoid starvation. You should therefore double click any good production tiles currently worked by cities not under [*] Avoid Growth and use it for that city.

    Likewise, a city which is not under [*] Growth should steal any good gold/food tiles from cities under [x] Avoid Growth

    Another micromanaging tip that should be employed is keeping every tile locked and having the focus be on production. That way, whenever a city experiences population growth, it produces extra hammers immediately by working a hill tile as opposed to a grassland tile. This benefit adds up early game. With 10 cities growing from 1 population to 2, you'd be losing out on 10-30 hammers if you didn't do this trick! That's a whole archer! And seeing as most of your cities are going to grow to 4 population early game, you'd be losing out on 200 or so production if you didn't micromanage with production focus.

    ICS COASTAL EMPIRE -THE DELAYED SPRAWL-

    Requirements:

    A food heavy start on the coast. Examples of a food heavy start include; 3+ sea resources, bananas, grassland, flood plains, cows. A start is either food heavy or production heavy. Sometimes it has equal amounts of both, in which case you have the luxury of deciding which one to use based on other criteria (i.e how close your neighbor is).

    One of the hardest part about ICS on the coast is that you often get 4 fish starts with no hills nearby. Such a start does not fulfill the high base hammer requirement of regular ICS. Likewise does your lack of science early game lead to a slow progression of key techs and disallows you to hit medieval era fast enough for exploration + mercantalism. This strategy aims to combat that by using a delayed sprawl tactic.

    A delayed sprawl, simply put, is an One City Challenge (OCC) into Infinity City Sprawl transition strategy. It favors building a big capital early on until you get National College (NC) + oracle, and only then transitioning into city spam. Your capital will have all the food/hammers/road connections it needs to spam out 1-2 turn settlers, so while this sprawl starts out later, it quickly manages to catch up to regular ICS. This build is not without downsides, however.

    By delaying your settling by a good 30 turns, you're allowing others to grab key foward cities. As such, I do not recommend using this build when you spawn too close to an enemy capital.

    Delayed sprawl also leaves little room for early game aggression. There won't be any composite bowmen rushes from you as you simply have better things to build. As such, this strategy is best employed when you start in relative isolation and have no incentive to spam cities early on. Likewise does this strategy favor high food starts over high production starts. If you spawn in a spot with little to no hammers to build early settlers with, Delayed ICS is your go to build.

    Another situation which might occasionally occur is that you spawn in a spot which hinders your settlers movements. This might mean on the wrong side of a river system, in a jungle or a forest heavy start, or a start with many hills outside your capital. In these starts, it's actually better to do a delayed Infinity City Sprawl for the sole reason that with a 10 population capital you can afford to connect road networks to 1 population cities. A 10 population city connected to a city 3 tiles apart results in a net loss of 1.4 gold. You can connect 2 cities using only 4 roads if you settle them 3 tiles apart, using a Y formation (see http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=438745 for proper Y placement). Connecting two 1 population cities to the capital using only 4 tiles of road yields -.8 gold per turn. This amount turns positive to .2 gold per turn once each city hits 2 population.

    Since you can afford to build roads early on, you can effectively pre-build the roads before your settlers move out. This stops any jungle/hill/forest from getting in the way of your sprawl! Also, since this build focuses on a quick liberty finish, you have meritocracy available much sooner so each city only nets -3 unhappiness.

    In short, delayed ICS allows for a quick early game science lead which transitions into a strong mid-game empire. This build also allows for incredibly strong early game Crossbow (or Camel Archers!) rushes when everybody only has composites.
    Key Policies, Beliefs, and Buildings
    Policies:
    • *** Libety Finisher *** This is key in this build. It is how you get your religion.
    • Maritime Infrastructure (+3 hammers per city)
    • Republic (+1 hammer per city)
    • 5 year plan (+2 hammer per city)
    • Iron Curtain (+25% production to cargo ship yield)
    • Party Leadership (+1 hammer per city)

    Faith Beliefs:
    • Desert Folklore (+1 faith from desert tiles)
    • Tear of gods (+2 faith from pearls/gems)
    • God-King (+1 culture, faith, gold, food, production in capital)
    • Sacred Path (+1 culture from Jungle)
    • God of the Open Sky (+1 culture from pastures)
    • God of Festivities (+1 faith/culture from wine)
    • Oral Tradition (+1 culture from pastures)
    • God of Sea (+1 production per fishing boat)
    • Guruship (+2 production if specialist worked)
    • Religious Community (+1% production per believer in city up to 15%)

    Buildings:
    • Workshop
    • Factory
    • Water mill
    • Cargo Ship (can deliver +production to cities if directed from a city with a workshop build)

    Early culture is KEY for this build. The sooner you can get your liberty finisher for a great prophet spawn, the sooner you can get your religion. For that reason, extra emphasis is placed on culture generating pantheons.

    Build Order (Capital)

    1. Scout
    2. Monument
    3. Shrine
    4. Granary
    5. Library
    6. Scout
    7. Worker
    8. National College
    9. Oracle (If didnt get, Writing Guild)
    10. Settler Spam (as usual, until you run out of effective global happiness)
    11. Colosseum
    12. Composite Bowmen (4-8, usually upgrade them to Crossbowmen early on for a rush)
    13. Workshop
    14. Cargo Ship (as many as you can get)
    15. Any Additional Units (Priority 1)
    16. Science Buildings (Priority 2)
    17. Production buildings (Priority 3)
    18. Gold Buildings (Priority 4)
    19. Food Buildings (Priority 5)

    Build Order (other cities)

    1. Monument
    2. Colosseum
    3. Library
    4. Composite Bowmen (4-8 total in empire, usually upgrade them to Crossbowmen early on for a rush)
    5. Workshop
    6. Any Additional Units (Priority 1)
    7. Science Buildings (Priority 2)
    8. Production buildings (Priority 3)
    9. Gold Buildings (Priority 4)
    10. Food Buildings (Priority 5)

    Unlike the other builds, delayed ICS goes for a national college into oracle. The oracle is there to allow for a liberty finish on turn 55 or so, for a great prophet spawn. Not getting Oracle will delay your religion to turn 65 or so. Less if you managed to get a culture pantheon.

    Early on you want to grow your capital out as much as possible, farming food tiles over improving luxuries. Then you want to chop forests/improve hills to speed on construction of NC/Oracle. Then maximize settler production and build roads to your cities ASAP.

    Your other cities do not build shrines, you have no use for them. You get your religion from Great Prophet spawning from liberty, and have no use for faith aside from that. Although if you want your religion upgrade relatively fast, you could build 1-2 shrines in some cities. Other ways of getting a prophet is befriending a faith city state, building Hagia Sophia (its a low priority wonder for most people), or using your pantheon faith.

    Religious Policy Order

    Pantheon: God-King is usually good, but sometimes there are better policies. Generally for this strategy you want to prioritize either a good faith pantheon (Tear of Gods/Desert Folklore) for an early religion, or culture (for an early liberty finisher for a great prophet). Follower of the Gods for a quick science boost past turn 55 can also work wonders.

    Founder Belief: Church property** or initiation rights. Church property is really good with this build and is far superior to initiation rights. You can spam out composites and then use the 600 or so gold you get from religion spreading to your cities to mass upgrade those composites into crossbowmen.

    Follower Beliefs: Religious Community for production is key.
    Follower Belief (upgrade): Guruship, Swords into Plowshares. Padogas/Mosques if you have spare religion due to pantheon.


    Cultural Policy Order

    1. Liberty Opener
    2. Citizenship (free worker first)
    3. Republic
    4. Collective Rule
    5. Representation (this first if not building oracle, else Meritocracy before)
    6. Meritocracy

    7. Exploration Opener
    8. Maritime Infrastructure
    9. Naval Tradition

    10. Rationalism Opener
    11. Secularism
    12. Humanism (Delay for Order, up to Worker Faculties)
    13. Free Thought (delay for Order, up to Worker Faculties)
    14. Social Realism
    15. Hero of the People
    16. Workers Faculties
    17. Young Pioneers
    18. Iron Curtain

    Tech Order

    • Pottery
    • **Sailing (Only if sea resource heavy start)
    • **Optics (Only is sea resource heavy start)
    • Writing
    • Calendar
    • Philosophy
    • Beeline to Machinery
    • Beeline to Education
    • Beeline to Industrialism
    • Beeline to Public Schools
    • Beeline to Plastics
    • Beeline to Nanotechnology

    This build effectively delays sprawling by going for national college. By doing so, you get an extremely high early game science output, a lot of gold from faith spreading, a nice and stable build up, as well as a strong capital. The only problem with this build lies in its weakness to early game rush. As such, avoid doing it when you think you're going to get rushed. This start also relies on having a lot of food to work with. If you spawn in a plain with no wheat, you probably shouldn't go delayed ICS. After the initial expansion, delayed ICS converges with normal ICS and you proceed as normal throughout the game.

    ICS Piety Empire - Delayed Sprawl​

    Requirements:

    A food heavy start with room to expand. Examples of a food heavy start include; 3+ sea resources, bananas, grassland, flood plains, cows. A start is either food heavy or production heavy. Sometimes it has equal amounts of both, in which case you have the luxury of deciding which one to use based on other criteria (i.e how close your neighbor is).

    Key Policies, Beliefs, and Buildings
    Policies:
    • *** Libety Finisher *** This is key in this build. It is how you get your religion.
    • Piety Opener
    • Mandate Of Heaven
    • Organized Religion
    • Reformation

    Faith Beliefs:
    • Desert Folklore (+1 faith from desert tiles)
    • Tear of gods (+2 faith from pearls/gems)
    • God-King (+1 culture, faith, gold, food, production in capital)
    • Sacred Path (+1 culture from Jungle)
    • God of the Open Sky (+1 culture from pastures)
    • God of Festivities (+1 faith/culture from wine)
    • Oral Tradition (+1 culture from pastures)
    • God of Sea (+1 production per fishing boat)
    • All faith buildings

    Buildings:
    • Padoga
    • Cathedral
    • Mosque
    • Monestary

    Early culture is KEY for this build. The sooner you can get your liberty finisher for a great prophet spawn, the sooner you can get your religion. For that reason, extra emphasis is placed on culture generating pantheons.

    Build Order (Capital)

    1. Scout
    2. Monument
    3. Shrine
    4. Granary
    5. Library
    6. Scout
    7. Worker
    8. National College
    9. Oracle (If didnt get, Writing Guild)
    10. Settler Spam (as usual, until you run out of effective global happiness)
    11. Colosseum
    12. Composite Bowmen (4-8, usually upgrade them to Crossbowmen early on for a rush)
    13. Workshop
    14. Cargo Ship/Caravans (as many as you can get)
    15. Any Additional Units (Priority 1)
    16. Science Buildings (Priority 2)
    17. Production buildings (Priority 3)
    18. Gold Buildings (Priority 4)
    19. Food Buildings (Priority 5)

    Build Order (other cities)

    1. Shrine
    2. Monument
    3. Colosseum
    4. Library
    5. Composite Bowmen (4-8 total in empire, usually upgrade them to Crossbowmen early on for a rush)
    6. Workshop
    7. Any Additional Units (Priority 1)
    8. Science Buildings (Priority 2)
    9. Production buildings (Priority 3)
    10. Gold Buildings (Priority 4)
    11. Food Buildings (Priority 5)

    Unlike the other builds, delayed ICS goes for a national college into oracle. The oracle is there to allow for a liberty finish on turn 55 or so, for a great prophet spawn. Not getting Oracle will delay your religion to turn 65 or so. Less if you managed to get a culture pantheon.

    Early on you want to grow your capital out as much as possible, farming food tiles over improving luxuries. Then you want to chop forests/improve hills to speed on construction of NC/Oracle. Then maximize settler production and build roads to your cities ASAP.

    Unlike the coastal delayed, delayed ICS Piety empire builds shrines. You need the faith asap for padogas.

    Religious Policy Order

    Pantheon: God-King is usually good, but sometimes there are better policies. Generally for this strategy you want to prioritize either a good faith pantheon (Tear of Gods/Desert Folklore) for an early religion, or culture (for an early liberty finisher for a great prophet). Follower of the Gods for a quick science boost past turn 55 can also work wonders.

    Founder Belief: Church property** or initiation rights. Church property is really good with this build and is far superior to initiation rights. You can spam out composites and then use the 600 or so gold you get from religion spreading to your cities to mass upgrade those composites into crossbowmen.

    Follower Beliefs: Padogas
    Follower Belief (upgrade): Mosques, Cathedrals, Monestaries


    Cultural Policy Order

    1. Liberty Opener
    2. Citizenship (free worker first)
    3. Republic
    4. Collective Rule
    5. Representation (this first if not building oracle, else Meritocracy before)
    6. Meritocracy

    7. Piety Opener
    8. Organized Religion
    9. Mandate
    10. Religious Tolerance
    11. Reformation
    12. Theocracy (don't get it if you have rationalism already opened up)
    13. Rationalism Opener
    14. Secularism
    15. Humanism (Delay for Order, up to Worker Faculties)
    16. Free Thought (delay for Order, up to Worker Faculties)
    17. Social Realism
    18. Hero of the People
    19. Workers Faculties
    20. Young Pioneers
    21. Iron Curtain

    Tech Order

    • Pottery
    • Writing
    • Calendar
    • Philosophy
    • Beeline to Machinery
    • Beeline to Education
    • Beeline to Industrialism
    • Beeline to Public Schools
    • Beeline to Plastics
    • Beeline to Nanotechnology

    Delayed Piety empire cannot use Sacred Relics to their full effect as the initial set-up takes far too long. As such, delayed ICS Piety is limited to the other reformation beliefs. As such, I did not include a Sacred relic building track, as it only works in standard builds.

    The build itself plays out like an OCC until you hit Oracle. From there on, you play like a standard ICS empire (found above).

    Conclusion​


    Hope you all enjoyed this guide! The wall of text is a bit uneasy on the eyes due to lack of pictures, but it's still manageable I suppose due to the spacing I put in. In all, ICS is an incredible strategy once you get the hang of it and is extremely fun to pull off. Have fun!
     
  4. Free Gold

    Free Gold Chieftain

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    I share the sentiment on "NC" going to waste, which is why I made the delayed sprawl tactic. I'll write it up after this reply.

    The Piety empire guide can be found here. http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=501527. This guide a bit outdated, however. I'm writing up a fresh one for this guide as we speak.

    I have a love-hate relationship with early road networks. Generally though, I tend to avoid building roads unless I absolutely have to until they can pay for themselves. In the coastal empire, you're going to be building harbors and using ships as your main defense line, so having a road network is not necessary unless you're going to war. If you are, then just have a road going out from your capital to your forward cities - that should be enough.

    Thank you for pointing out the city states! Generally though, I don't have enough gold lying around until my religion spreads. So while you do say "emphasize early gold", I don't know how to reliably get it aside from bullying city states. Once your religion spreads however, allying city statse (especially mercantile ones) is something you should aim for.

    Tithe is something i'd consider getting in single player. In multiplayer it just doesn't do anything. I'd rather have +2 gold for every city that I know im going to get as opposed to a possible +10 for enemy cities which I might not. You have 10 cities with 1 population. 2 gold per turn per city is 20 gold, whereas if you get tithe you'd only get .5 gold per city!
     
  5. Rbtucker

    Rbtucker Chieftain

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    You don't think China would work with the Paper Maker (+2 gold vs -1 gold) and the Chu Ku Nu?
     
  6. Tabarnak

    Tabarnak Cut your lousy hairs!

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    Tested the ics strategy lately and here are my thoughts:

    It's hard to have enough space for at least 12 cities. However, it's not that difficult to build a massive army to take few more. But on low sea level maps you might be able to settle enough by yourself.

    I start with Pottery-Mining-Masonry
    Capital BO: monument-scout-shrine-granary-Pyramids
    Policies: Liberty until free settler

    For religion i suggest 2 prophets in a row to make sure to have 2 faith buildings to spam. Unless you play Byzantium.

    Rush settlers until you reach Philosophy. Build Oracle.
    Build order in these cities should be Monument-Shrine-Temple-Units

    After free settler from Liberty you go for Reformation (Sacred Sites). After Oracle keep building cities until you can't. Try to reach 100 fpt before the turn 80 and 50 tpt before turn 100. Don't build roads. Chop forests and improve hammer tiles after connecting ressources.

    Maybe finish Liberty if possible to get a free musician? If not you can always use forces to slow down opponents.

    The idea is to win before the turn 120, time where a civ can truly cut your civ like a knife in butter (your tech rate will be damn slow).
     
  7. Rbtucker

    Rbtucker Chieftain

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    Interesting. It was about turn 120 my research begins to dwarf the tall cities, but I do grab the Jesuit belief.
     
  8. salocin097

    salocin097 Warlord

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    Where would you rate China for ICS? With the paper maker and the potential to spam Chu Ku Nu
     
  9. Free Gold

    Free Gold Chieftain

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    China is a low tier ICS civ. Cho Ku Nu's are great, but you're pretty much forced to do delayed ICS and go the national college route. Not to say that this is bad, but if for whatever reason you want to play wide from the get go, China is suboptimal in that regard.
     
  10. salocin097

    salocin097 Warlord

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    Also, in this guide are you basically saying you need high food or hammers to ICS?
     
  11. Free Gold

    Free Gold Chieftain

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    High hammer start for ICS, high food start for delayed ICS
     
  12. salocin097

    salocin097 Warlord

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    Would you be able to make a video? Are there any general benchmarks? Such as Piety around x turns. Pumping settlers at x. Also, if I do Jesuit education ICS? Am I going for science? I did a game with friends. I ended up with a pretty delayed ICS so when I got university my cities were pretty small. How big should they be to even out on the 5%?
     
  13. Free Gold

    Free Gold Chieftain

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    No, I won't make any videos, sorry. There are some general benchmarks. Usually I aim for universities turn 110-120 or so, Public schools, research labs 180, nanotech (with great scientist bulb) 189.

    Generally you start pumping out settlers turn 27 or so. That's when you get the 50 percent reduction to their cost. Alternatively, it's around turn 60 or so with delayed ICS.

    With Jesuit Education you are going for science, but your science is going to be delayed towards the start unless you used delayed ICS and got national college.

    Generally speaking, your cities should be about 4-6 population by the time you get universities. If you sprawl right, you should be able to get a city to 2 population the moment you get padogas, 4 population if you get colloseums, 5 mosques. Avoid growth is key here, as well as not sprawling past your happiness limits. (generally want to be close to 0 happiness.)

    You won't have 20 pop cities, but you will have high over-all population spread out amount multiple cities. Key to achieving that is micromanagement. If you don't micromanage and as a result have 1 pop cities, you simply won't have any early game science.
     
  14. BlackWizard

    BlackWizard King

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    I'm not sure why you recommend God King pantheon when doing ICS. Almost everything else should give more benefits when building 10+ cities or even 20
     
  15. salocin097

    salocin097 Warlord

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    I think it's just for the faith and culture. Early on that extra bit helps
     
  16. Free Gold

    Free Gold Chieftain

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    God-King gives a decent early game hammer boost as well as some science/faith. There are better pantheons, but at the very least, the extra hammer can snowball into more settlers faster. It's one of those "get it if you don't have anything better" pantheons.
     
  17. BlackWizard

    BlackWizard King

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    If you get your pantheon super early like on turn 5 with celts or otherwise early you wont no what resources are near you. Choosing "randomly" some other pantheon should almost always be better choice. Like 1 happines from cities on river even if you dont see lot of rivers yet etc.

    I choose God King usually only when going OCC or if I'm not going to found religion. But if you aim to found religion with 10-20 cities God King is usually poorest choice.
     
  18. Haxxtastic

    Haxxtastic Chieftain

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    Tried this to practice for game with friends tomorrow, (Coastal start, continents, standard, deity)war declared on me turn 51, obliterated turn 59, are the AI wise to it or something? (I've only ever beaten Deity with 1 city, trying the other extreme)

    EDIT: Tried again, war declared on 71, wiped me out

    EDIT: Third try, turn 191, had a nice sized army (about 35 units between frigates and land) Denmark declared on me, got overwhelmed and decimated, took my capital in 3 turns flat (he was a full era ahead of me in science)

    EDIT: Just had a pretty successful game with Dido, decently fun but seems really impractical, I'll mess around with it some more though, beats the usual
     
  19. BluuKing

    BluuKing Chieftain

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    Hello, I've recently began using ICS in my civil games, I'd like to try your Coastal guide but I only run God's and Kings. Do you think your strategy would still work? Thank you.
     
  20. Vitruvius

    Vitruvius King

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    Messages:
    862
    Just had a Carthage game too. They really work well with exploration. Free harbors = free 1 happiness immediately.
     

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