Info on Next Patch

Rohili

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Greg has posted some early info on the next patch over at the 2K forums. It seems like they will be focusing on AI and diplomacy, which is great news since those are the two areas that I think need the most work. Especially diplomacy - it is unacceptable that the only reason to talk to the AI now is to trade luxuries or sign research agreements very 30 turns.

http://forums.2kgames.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1267383#post1267383

Fingers crossed that the patch will be released within this month!

Edit: Update from Greg: (11/10)
Update 18/10/2010: The first batch of changes are now available! Here they are:

AI
  • Worker AI improvements .
  • Update to tactical AI pillaging code. Additionally, always check to make sure it’s not trying to pillage in an enemy dominance zone.
  • AI victory emphasis improvements (more efficient end-game when focusing on Science and Diplo victories).
  • AI should colonize other continents regularly.
  • AI will emphasize production of an Ocean going explorer unit when the time comes.
  • Adjust Napoleon to make him more likely to go for culture.
  • More aggressive second wave expansion (mostly off shore) after initial empire building and consolidation has occurred.
  • Optimization when finding routes (pathfinder improvement).
  • Multiple tweaks and bug fixes.
  • AI will now build ranged and mobile units more in line with the flavor settings.
  • Multiple defensive AI tweaks.
  • Never use ranged units to provide flanking bonuses. (Added 11/18)
  • Improve AI use of protected bombard attacks (melee in front, ranged in the rear). (Added 11/18)
  • Worker priority adjustments (prioritize pillaged tiles, etc.). (Added 11/18)
  • Further pathfinder optimization. (Added 11/18)

GAMEPLAY
  • Cities heal more quickly.
  • Only allow one upgrade per unit from a goody hut.
  • Science building track adjustments (cost, specialist slots, GP Points, etc). (Added 11/18)
  • Amount of damage caused during naval combat increased. (Added 11/18)
  • Melee horse units combat value lowered, and now receive a penalty when attacking cities. (Added 11/18)
  • Lowered bonuses received from Maritime city-states.(Added 11/18)
  • Removed maintenance from defensive buildings. (Added 11/18)
  • Multiple unit upgrade track adjustments. Most (but not all) units now have a full upgrade path from start to finish. (Added 11/18)
  • Open terrain penalty lowered.(Added 11/18)
  • Policies must be selected the turn they are earned. (Added 11/18)
  • Promotions must be selected the turn they are earned. If it’s as a result of combat, then the beginning of the next turn. (Added 11/18)

UI
  • Tweaked the single-player score list to hide the civs of unmet ai players.
  • Added game option to disable automated workers from removing features. (Added 11/18)

DIPLO
  • AI's attitude towards you is now visible in the diplo screen and diplo drop-down.
  • Added info tooltip for an AI leader's mood. Lists things that are making an AI player happy/upset.
  • New diplo system: Declaration of Friendship (public declaration with diplomatic repercussions).
  • New diplo system: Denounce (public declaration with diplomatic repercussions).
  • New custom leader responses (Serious Expansion Warning, Aggressive Military, Luxury Exchange, Borders Exchange, Gift Request).

MODDING
  • Parent category counts now include counts of child categories.
  • Selecting/deselecting a category now automatically selects/deselects it's children and its parent.
  • Tweaked category name truncation to better fit names.
  • Hide categories w/ no children and a count of 0.
  • Added support for fallback languages (if mod is not translated, fall-back to English so text keys are not showing).

MISC
  • Fixed save format which causes saves to increase the memory footprint of the game drastically when loading frequently over the course of the game.
 

Sonereal

♫We got the guillotine♫
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Diplomacy patch!

I can't wait to see the patch notes. It means we may be able to some some of the hidden things that we haven't seen about the opaque diplomacy.
 

Dark_Jedi06

"Deus ex Machina."
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Hopefully it's more then a patch, hopefully it's a complete overhaul.

Bring back diplomacy modifiers and the ability to have friends!
 

gunter

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Not to be pessimistic guys but all of us know the AI dramatic state, I think a patch even if dedicated to the AI can't switch the lead into gold.

So we should expect tiny improvements here and there but the DNA will be the same.

Told that I think that we should flood Firaxis with suggestions now, before it is too late.
 
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Not to be pessimistic guys but all of us know the AI dramatic state, I think a patch even if dedicated to the AI can't switch the lead into gold.

So we should expect tiny improvements here and there but the DNA will be the same.

Told that I think that we should flood Firaxis with suggestions now, before it is too late.

What about the game's design is unchangeable and prevents the AI from improving to a level you find suitable?

(i.e. What AI problems do you think cannot be fixed with a patch by the developer?)
 

gunter

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What about the game's design is unchangeable and prevents the AI from improving to a level you find suitable?

(i.e. What AI problems do you think cannot be fixed with a patch by the developer?)

DNA issue.

We know how the AI behave during everything it does, from conducting a war to moving units, from moving naval units to air ones, the total lack of AI usage of nukes etc etc..

The game devs only used massive cheats to increase the game difficulty of levels and, again, we all know how the AI behaves within diplomacy.

So, if the only way found by devs to increase the AI power is cheating what do you expect from improving the AI via the next patch ?

Obviously devs can't improve diplomacy like they did for everything in the game therefore allowing the AI massive diplo bonus therefore the DNA can't be changed because devs can't imagine how to set up a decent AI at all, diplo included.

Simple, flat and scaring at the same time.
 
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DNA issue.

We know how the AI behave during everything it does, from conducting a war to moving units, from moving naval units to air ones, the total lack of AI usage of nukes etc etc..

The game devs only used massive cheats to increase the game difficulty of levels and, again, we all know how the AI behaves within diplomacy.

So, if the only way found by devs to increase the AI power is cheating what do you expect from improving the AI via the next patch ?

Obviously devs can't improve diplomacy like they did for everything in the game therefore allowing the AI massive diplo bonus therefore the DNA can't be changed because devs can't imagine how to set up a decent AI at all, diplo included.

Simple, flat and scaring at the same time.

You keep saying "DNA issue" in regards to a piece of software and you think you are conveying useful information.

AIs in many games "cheat", oftentimes it's the only way they can remain competitive. The AI cheated in Civ IV, and in Civ III. And your last point isn't obvious at all, it's pure speculation and I'm having trouble actually understanding your sentence. What I've gathered from it is that you think "The devs can't improve diplomacy because the devs can't improve diplmacy", pretty circular...

Could you point to some specific examples of AI problems that can't be fixed with updates? What are some "DNA issues"?
 

gunter

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That's not a problem if you can't understand me, the AI IS a problem instead.

Don't worry mate, you will picture what I mean when the next patch will be released.
 

Sonereal

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Could you point to some specific examples of AI problems that can't be fixed with updates? What are some "DNA issues"?

What are DNA issues in the first place? :confused:

We're talking about a piece of software, not....life.

Saying "the AI is a problem instead" doesn't mean anything. It's just a random phrase that has absolutely no weight because it doesn't say why the AI is a problem.
 
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That's not a problem if you can't understand me, the AI IS a problem instead.

Don't worry mate, you will picture what I mean when the next patch will be released.

I agree that the AI has problems.

Your point was that the problems are inherent to the "DNA" of the game. First of all, I don't get what you mean by DNA. Second, why can't these problems be fixed via updates?

Lastly, it doesn't end the argument in your favor just by saying "wait and see to see that I am right".

EDIT: Kinda becoming clear you don't really know what you are talking about. :(
EDIT2: Don't even know how many times I've answered a direct question like "What do you mean by your statement x?" only to have a reply that says "Not my problem you don't understand, learn english"... so pathetic
 

gunter

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Who want to understand me already did it or will do soon.

In my country as DNA we refer to the " core " of a structure, beside the biologic meaning of that word.

I didn't want to be on the right side of the discussion, I just told which is my opinion and just stated that you should reserve the right to think at this post after the the next patch will be released.

Is it so diffucult thinking on 3 dimensions considering also the time within ideas ?

I think it's easy
 
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Who want to understand me already did it or will do soon.

In my country as DNS we refer to the " core " of a structure, beside the biologic meaning of that word.

I didn't want to be on the right side of the discussion, I just told which is my opinion and just stated that you should reserve the right to think at this post after the the next patch will be released.

Is it so diffucult thinking on 3 dimensions considering also the time within ideas ?

I think it's easy

Listen, instead of getting more and more esoteric and vague with each post, why don't you just give me an example of a problem that is inherent to the "core of the structure" in Civilization V and one that you feel cannot be addressed/fixed with a software update?
 

Sonereal

♫We got the guillotine♫
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Who want to understand me already did it or will do soon.

No....I really don't think they will or do.

In my country as DNA we refer to the " core " of a structure, beside the biologic meaning of that word.

Ok?

I didn't want to be on the right side of the discussion, I just told which is my opinion and just stated that you should reserve the right to think at this post after the the next patch will be released.

Except you stated your opinion as a fact. :rolleyes:

Is it so diffucult thinking on 3 dimensions considering also the time within ideas ?

Wait. What does thinking in terms of width, length, and depth have to do with anything?

I think it's easy

It is.

It just has nothing to do with anything.
 

Ankh

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gunter

you make no sense whatsoever!

Back on topic,

I doubt the patch will make the AI godlike, but hopefully we will be able to interact with the AI a bit more then renewing trade every 30 turn.

I want to be able to threat the AI
I want to be able to bribe the AI to like me
I want to tell him to lay of that attack against a city state or I will DOW
I want to be able to coexist with a neighbour peacefully

There's a lot you can to with diplomacy with a patch, It will improve but I would not expect some kind of miracle.
 
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