Info on Next Patch

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by Rohili, Nov 4, 2010.

  1. vra379971

    vra379971 Deity

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    Greg, I sent a PM a couple of weeks back, in regards to integrating Advisers into the ongoing play experience, will that happen in a future patch?
     
  2. PieceOfMind

    PieceOfMind Drill IV Defender Retired Moderator

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    Good question.

    I wonder if 2K Greg would be kind enough to confirm whether no research overflow is by design or something to be changed.
     
  3. phantomkp

    phantomkp Chieftain

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    Its not two conflicting patch notes. Its a game function, with the option to turn it off.

    They are saying that the game should be played with having to strategize what your policies and promotions will be as soon as you get them...not unrealistically save and collect them to pull out of your back pocket like Pokemon cards 100 turns later.

    But they give you the option to NOT play that way, to continue to play a less strategically difficult game people are used to. People like to game the system! :p

    The same with Barbarians. You probably should play with them as a part of gameplay...but they give you the option to turn them off.

    I dont know why you are complaining getting options to turn off features to make the game easier for you to game!

    Sure there is. It gives people who like the more realistic restriction to play the game as it probably should be...AND giving those people who dont like being restricted in their gameplay with rules the option to turn it off.

    Of course both exsisting is a better option than neither.

    There is a point. :)
     
  4. Varanid

    Varanid Warlord

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    w00t. I like saving SPs sometimes--like if I bulb 2 turns before Cristo is complete for instance, or right before I hit industrial era. I don't do prolonged holding back, just because if nothing else Liberty is a decent tree for 3 policies (although meritocracy is getting nerfed?).
     
  5. Zydor

    Zydor Emperor

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    In SP there is no such thing as "gaming the system". A game is there to give the purchaser pleasure, howsoever the purchaser wants to achieve it within the confines of the game as designed. If the game or patches or mods or whatever allows things others would not do, who cares, no one elses business. The later is why the in game map editor was so successful in Civ 4 - if individuals wanted to go nuts with it, why the hell not, its their game time, their cash bought it, and affects no one else.

    What is crucial is such mechanisms that change the game beyond a theoretical designers preferred path, be presented as options or able to be turned off for things like multi-player, HOF et al - for obvious reasons. For everything else - who cares, no one loses by it, and the game purchaser has fun. If certain options is what floats their boat, great, I'll even help launch the boat if it helps maintain game popularity. Its fun that ultimately sells games, howsoever fun is defined by its purchaser, providing any consquencies of that are isolated from others to maintain balance and integrity of the game.

    At times the need to have "Fun" gets drowned in this all conquering need to be seen to be the number 1 et al - the latter is equally dangerous at times. Maintaining that balance of win/fun has traditionally been pretty good in Civ, until the last release, but it looks like the upcoming Patch will go a long way to restoring Fun as a driver.

    Regards
    Zy
     
  6. Txurce

    Txurce Deity

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    More than one mod addresses this. I haven't tried Alpaca's new one, but Thal's Balance mods make farming resources a very worthwhile strategy, even on Immortal.
     
  7. Txurce

    Txurce Deity

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    Greg said this patch focuses on diplomacy and the AI, so I think we'll be lucky if they address that. They have made some balance adjustments in some non-targeted areas, so it's possible.
     
  8. cccv

    cccv King

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    That's what I meant to say, that I don't think they'll be addressing it in this patch. It's definitely a needed change, but they pretty much have to fix everything, so one step at a time... maybe (hopefully) next patch.
     
  9. Louis XXIV

    Louis XXIV Le Roi Soleil

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    My guess is, even if it wasn't intended, it's not something that can be changed without extensive balance testing to ensure that it doesn't mess up the tech tree timing too much. Whether it was by design or by mistake is pretty much irrelevant at this point.
     
  10. marekb

    marekb Warlord

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    2K Greg wrote on 2K forum:
     
  11. PieceOfMind

    PieceOfMind Drill IV Defender Retired Moderator

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    Ok. Thanks for sharing.
     
  12. lschnarch

    lschnarch Emperor

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    About the beaker overflow:
    With the things to be changed, they almost don't have any other chance as to activate beaker overflow *NOW*.
    With all these changes, and since technologies are somehow re-adjusted anyway, they are already considerung cost of technologies and output of cities.

    That's something which they would have to do later again.
    Therefore, since the beaker overflow has only been mentioned as "looking into it" (and from experience I've got an idea about the meaning when 2k phrases it like this) I don't have much hope that there will be any changes in that respective area.

    Seems to me that the developers are actually quite happy with this "brandnew feature, which enhances strategy so much" (taken directly from the "2K guide: Discuss with fans").

    I would be happy to be proven wrong, though.
     
  13. phantomkp

    phantomkp Chieftain

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    Well, it is gaming the system in that, its utilizing an exploit that has been around for a long while.

    Because its been around for a long while, Civ fans see it as a feature rather than an exploit.

    But the concept of saving up promotion points until the last minute in battle, or saving up culture points to sling shot 100 turns after said culture was aquired...its a concept that makes no sense, but exploited by gamers to literally game the system.

    And its an exploit because gamers who choose that path literally ignore the concept of early social policies...when i am positive the concept of a civilization building game is to ensure that civilizations dabble in early social policies before graduating to more advanced ones...not have a civilization producing a large amount of culture, but staying prehistoric for a 1,000 years, and then unload it and suddenly become socially advanced even though they never adopted early social concepts.

    It would be like not having a tech tree, just allow people to stock up on beakers and wait to buy advanced stuff without having to learn early Civ pre reqs if the game so chooses...from a gamer perspective i could see how it would be fun to have either choice...but from a gameplay perspective it doesnt fit the concept of building a real civilization.

    We are basically forced to pick a new tech when we aquire a certain amount of beakers (thats what the pre-reqs basically do)...are you saying we should have the option and NOT be forced to ppick a tech when we have a certain amount of beakers? I should have the choice to load up on beakers and just purchase nukes when im ready? While i understand being able to choose that playstyle could be fun in its own right..it shouldnt be the basic gameplay rules. It makes little sense from a civlization progression/building POV...which is the main view of this game.

    But again, thats why i applaud the idea of making it a hard feature change...you SHOULDNT be able to hold on to promotions and culture points to bypass gameplay and ignore any sense of trying to make the concept of building a civilization grounded in logic and reality. Thats why they are changing the basic gameplay rules so you CANT do that.

    But for those who want to turn off immersion rules...you should be able to turn it off so you can get all the fun and choice you say you have in culure hoarding. Everything should be options.

    Heck, give gamers the option to spend science beakers like gold and purchase techs whenever they can afford it without haveing to adhere to pre reqs. It makes just as much sense gameplay wise as culture point hoarding and slingshotting...so why not give that option for gamers to game the system too! :p

    Right..but thats why its now an option to turn off instead of being part of the Civ ruleset. Im not arguing you shouldnt have the choice to hold off on promotions or SP spending...i just want it to be clear that its basically an exploit. Its purley a gaming the system mechanic. Always has been.
     
  14. PieceOfMind

    PieceOfMind Drill IV Defender Retired Moderator

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    Who or what are you quoting?
     
  15. fed1943

    fed1943 Emperor

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    Looks good.
    We shall see.
     
  16. Luckystrike77

    Luckystrike77 Prince

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    +1 food is a big deal, bigger then ever, excactly because food is scarcer.
     
  17. Louis XXIV

    Louis XXIV Le Roi Soleil

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    They're already going to have to consider re-balancing techs due to allowing easier growth of large cities. This suggests that the first half of the tech tree would stay about the same, but the second half would speed up too much. That being said, I always feel the tree crawls to a halt around that point anyway (the exception being the tech with Mech Inf which is way too easy to get). I think the tech tree changes for this change is minor.

    The tree changes for spillover is much greater. There is an easy, although quite boring way to test it, though. Play two games parallel. Have one with the current rules, one with spillover and a 5-10% increase in tech costs (I'd suggest archipelago to reduce variables from the AI). Then literally reproduce the game move for move and see what the tech disparity is between the two. If they're in the same ballpark, keep the spillover. If it's dramatically different, try to tweak tech costs to make up for that. Overall, the change should take place eventually, if not for this patch.
     
  18. PawelS

    PawelS Ancient Druid

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    You get the same food from a farm after researching Civil Service or Fertilizer (depending if the farm has fresh water or not), so these plots aren't really special. I agree that it's one of the things that should be fixed in a patch, but fortunately there are some mods that already do it.
     
  19. kosak

    kosak Chieftain

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    Thank you for the responses. Glad to see other gamers see resource values as an issue.
     
  20. Abraxis

    Abraxis Emperor

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    For the luxury resources, I find it helps a lot to play with them set to scarce. Grabbing up multiple of the same is then great for trading for other resources, or 9 GPT each on epic. When you're playing on scarce, what you do get is way more valuable as few others will have it as well.
    Arabia is my favorite civ just for the luxury trading.

    As for the food, I'll agree it sucks. I had a game a little while ago where I noticed having cows next to a river after civil service can actually screw you, as for some reason, you're not allowed to build anything other then a pasture there.
     

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