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Info on Upcoming Patches from Jon Shafer

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by Pyrkaige, Oct 11, 2010.

  1. dexters

    dexters Gods & Emperors Supporter

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    The 1UPT systems opens up certain AI subroutines that needs to be refined.

    Things like protecting ranged. But having played 6-7 complete games now, the combat AI is no different from the previous Civ AIs, which like to throw everything they have at you in the opening moves of the war and have nothing in reserve.

    The salient difference of course is, they would still have defenders in previous Civ games, which essentially is the equivalent of the HP of the cities in Civ5. But in the previous games, the higher difficulty go you, the more defenders, the (bigger) the HP pool. So that's one possible difficulty adjustment is to increase HP of enemy cities.

    But in all seriousness, when I'm playing from behind, the AI routinely whoops my 'behind'. In one case, Hiawatha was 20 techs ahead of everyone else, I bought out a city state nearby for an invasion to stop his Space Race victory. I landed my invasion force, put my tanks and mech inf infront, had 3 radar artillery behind, backed by generals. Things went ok at first, but 2 turns in, the giant death robot shows up. Needless to say, I knew it was over.
     
  2. Louis XXIV

    Louis XXIV Le Roi Soleil

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    I think I missed this. What happened?
     
  3. anti_strunt

    anti_strunt Warlord

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    Out of curiousity (and ignorance), what are you refering to?

    EDIT: what the heck... Two identical posts on 1:04, what are the odds?
     
  4. SuperJay

    SuperJay Bending Space and Time

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    Indeed... now if only Jon would pull Tom into the Firaxis office for a few days, so Tom could give Jon the lowdown on the problems with Jon's game... maybe we'd get somewhere. :undecide:

    Heck, maybe it's already happened. I'm sure Jon's read the 1UP review. And Jon's responses in that thread have all the hallmarks of PR devspeak; he comes about as close as he can to acknowledging that Civ5 has severe problems and practically apologizes to people for buying the game in the condition it's in.

    I'm just skeptical anytime some dev or PR type says "we're aware of the problems and are working to address them." Elizabeth over at 2K straight up told their PC audience exactly that re: BioShock2, even going so far as to give a rough date for the patches that would supposedly fix those problems... only to renege on the whole thing months later, and effectively announce 'Sorry, those issues aren't getting fixed. Our apologies for any inconvenience this may cause, have a nice day.'

    The content and tone of Jon's posts re: Civ 5and 2K Elizabeth's re: Bioshock2 are a little too close for comfort. But I'm a skeptic - expect the worst and you're often pleasantly surprised. ;)
     
  5. CyberTyrant

    CyberTyrant Emperor

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  6. dexters

    dexters Gods & Emperors Supporter

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    But Civ5 is a PC game. The bioshock issue was essentially 2K dropping PC support to focus on where the sales are, on the consoles.

    100% of Civ5 sales are on PC. We knew patches were going to come. I think if you have reservations about the structural deficiancies of the current profit driven model, i'd worried about the very last patch for the final expansion they release.

    They usually muck it up by failing to patch everything and dropping support. It happened in a bad way with C3C cause Atari simply pulled the plug and it happened to a much lesser extent with BTS. But BTS patching was awesome. Release was 07? Final patch was in 09. I'd be glad for 2 years of post release support.
     
  7. Louis XXIV

    Louis XXIV Le Roi Soleil

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    Didn't post as regularly back then. :dunno:
     
  8. r_rolo1

    r_rolo1 King of myself

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    Ok, lesson of recent CFC history:

    Not so long ago ( 3 years ) , some days before firaxis released patch 3.13 for BtS, alexman ( aka Alex Mantzaris , at the time part of the Firaxis devs team for civ IV ) thinked it was a good idea to come here and post a list of the changes that the patch would do.

    I'll save you from 46 pages of discussion in that thread ( you can find it here if you really want to ) , but if you add the obvious discussion of those changes ( some of them , as usual, were far from consensual and some of the discussion was not as polite as that ) to the fact that people thinked that the patch was iminent ( it took a week or so after that for the patch to come out ), it is obvious that this leaded to a lot of ranting , a lot of it directed to alexman ( like he had the fault for that ). Worse, at a moment, possibly because he was pissed with the flaking he received, he decided to simply clean up the OP with the changes, a thing that obviously did not contributed to calm down things ...

    A really sad story ... and the main reason because the 2k PR people were around here so much before the release of civ V ( since one of the criticisms directed to alexman was that it was not his job to release the patch notes, but of the 2k PR people, that had not appeard in CFC one single time up to that moment ).

    I'm pretty sure that Shafer does not want to risk another episode of that kind ...
     
  9. Catt_Ironheart

    Catt_Ironheart Chieftain

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    Actually that sickens me. Have we come to expect mediocrity, and not only accept it but pay for it, and all the add ons too? I understand bugs, compatibility issues, and even exploits that players find out. Testing should not be when the product is shipped.

    Man I love that game. I actually can't think of a better game. The graphics, the story-line, the options. Morrowind had a bit more to it, but man Oblivion was beautiful. I have always hoped they would make Elder Scrolls Online. I can't imagine Bethesda messing that one up.

    Yes it can! Again I don't understand why a computer game can't be compared to a car. They are both products you buy and expect to be operational. Anyone happen to buy the latest prototype car? Only difference is that if it is a lemon you can sue.


    I am happy that they will fix it. Much like I am happy when Audi replaced my ignition coils for a recall. I would have been much happier had I not paid for ignition coil repairs three times prior to the recall ... but that money will come back. So do I get something back for buying a defective game?
     
  10. Louis XXIV

    Louis XXIV Le Roi Soleil

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    r_rolo1, Fair enough. I think I vaguely heard things about that, but that's really all I could say. I know Tech people aren't PR people, but there is a general rule of thumb to not give too much detail too early. It only leads to negative things, to be honest. I realize people want them to give concrete answers, but they only want them to do so until they do so and they're unhappy with the answer. Plus, if something can't be included in that patch, promising to include it is twice as bad.

    Note, that's not the same as engaging the fans. I think having Alexman as a member of the board was a positive thing (in spite of this), and I'm hoping someone will post at CFC when things have calmed down, but, yeah, backlashes like that one are probably more negative than positive.
     
  11. r_rolo1

    r_rolo1 King of myself

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    I was just pointing that, if I were in Jon shoes, based in that really bad experience, I would think twice ( or some times more :p ) before coming here promissing stuff for a patch :p
     
  12. dexters

    dexters Gods & Emperors Supporter

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    Jon posting on Tom Chick's forum is essentially the same as him posting here, since the same info gets repeated.

    I made a post there and basically said we haven't heard from anyone at 2K and or his team since release. Then asked him the questions I would have asked had he posted here.

    I mean, it's not like he was posting the patch notes. It was a general overview of what they were working on, which thankfully are the things a lot of people have issues with.
     
  13. Louis XXIV

    Louis XXIV Le Roi Soleil

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    I would too. But, at some point, I feel it's better PR to get stuff thrown at him in here than to avoid this place entirely.

    That being said, I haven't gotten past the third page yet, so I might completely reevaluate my opinion (back then, I believe I recall glancing at the front page and that's it, so I would have missed all this).
     
  14. SuperJay

    SuperJay Bending Space and Time

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    Right, that's true, and a significant difference between the actual events those posts were related to. It's not so much that I'm afraid that the specific scenarios are identical and will play out the same way, I'm just skeptical when it comes to that sort of statement from people who a vested interest in being somewhat less than honest.

    But like I said, if you read between the lines, Jon's acknowledging the problems. I'm cautiously hopeful that this means they really will follow through.
     
  15. Louis XXIV

    Louis XXIV Le Roi Soleil

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    By the way, if everyone suddenly goes over to the other forum and posts a laundry list of questions, they aren't going to get answered. If the game has as many problems as many people claim, he isn't going to have time to both fix them and answer questions. It might be best to lay off filling that thread with posts for awhile to give him a chance to reply if possible.
     
  16. Lord Parkin

    Lord Parkin aka emperor

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    @rolo: Just acknowledging some of the biggest issues would be nice. ;)

    But yeah, good to know they're hard at work on patching it, anyway. I wouldn't expect anything less from a Civ game. I'm sure they'll get it ironed out in time, but it'll probably take quite a bit of time spread over several patches. :)
     
  17. Novem

    Novem Chieftain

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    I'm truly sorry you feel that way but that's just the way it is in any software development. I've QA'd software for the past 14 years. Bugs happen. Yes you can work hard to have as few as possible but in the end they are going to happen. After playing CIV5 for almost a month now, I can say it has bugs, yes. For some people a lot of bugs. I myself am the victim of the random APPCRASH bug. CIV5 is not the first game that's been released that I've played that has program crashes. It's just the latest.

    Again I'm sorry if you feel this is a "passivity" then again I can't help that, but neither am I going to work myself up into a state over something I can not control. You may say I can control it with my wallet by not buying 2k games but you see I enjoy CIV5 above and beyond the current problems. I can say the same for WoW, City of Heroes, Almost every Valve game, Diablo....well I could go on.

    I accept the fact that game development houses are going to try and fix the issues as soon as they can. It's in their best interests to do so. Some can come up with conspiracy theory after another as to why games are releases as they are but I believe what I believe and you will believe what you believe.
     
  18. dexters

    dexters Gods & Emperors Supporter

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    People have been asking him questions, that's where a lot of the posts came from.

    But yes, I think i have a low chance of getting my questions answered.
     
  19. r_rolo1

    r_rolo1 King of myself

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    Things get far worse with time in there... people were happy with the patch, then started discussing the changes, then noticed that the patch was still not out, started to feel itchy, alexman gave one or two not so PR molded responses and then all goes by the drain completely ( the thread was closed and then reopened/fused with a poll after the patch came out, so a lot of the badmouthing is not even there, but on other threads )

    @LP

    Even that could cause a really bad reaction. The game is still in it's first month and admiting those issues in the charged enviroment this forum has ATM could lead easily to something as bad or worse than happened to alexman. 3 years ago people still had some faith in the devs around here, now, not so much ( hey , no one was asking for heads in that time , but I've seen people asking for Jon's head even today :p )
     
  20. Thoughtful Thug

    Thoughtful Thug Deity

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    Since Take 2 had bought Firaxis games a long time ago, and given their other company 2K to run it, I don't think we ought to hold our breath on seeing another PR attempt by a Firaxis employee. I would say it may be just an impulse move on John Shafer part. Remember: he is on our side, but I am sure 2K is keeping a close eye on him; and pull in the reigns if he ever does that again.
     

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