Information Drought?

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by Eagle Pursuit, Apr 16, 2013.

  1. Menzies

    Menzies Menzies

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    ...and I'll get tired explaining to people that 'theories' is the wrong word.
     
  2. Martinus

    Martinus Emperor

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    I am not sure it is a wrong word - just as theory of evolution or theory of gravity, they are collections of facts and reasoning justifying a certain thesis. And like those two theories, they are pretty much as good as true.
     
  3. Menzies

    Menzies Menzies

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    ...and there we go, the exact reason why it's the wrong word.

    So let's start with what a theory actually is in such a context. A theory is a well tested and substantiated explanation of the natural word that is thoroughly tested and repeatedly confirmed. The nature of theories require that they are predictive and that such predictions are testable, not simply that they are a self consistent explanation. The proper term for an untested proposed explanation would be hypothesis, but this too isn't exactly correct for what we are dealing with, but we'll get back to this.

    Now, many like to throw the word "Law" around, as in "Law of Gravity" in such discussions without actually knowing what it means. In scientific contexts, 'laws' actually come below 'theories'. For example, the 'Law of Universal Gravitation' and the 'General Theory of Relatively'. Laws are merely statements based on repeated observations or experiments and apply in certain conditions. This is probably the best description for what we know about city state colour-type replacement. That is, it should be called 'the Law of City State Colour-Type Replacement', not 'the of City State Colour-Type Replacement', as it is merely a statement based on observation, and not a full well tested explanation with testable (and tested) predictions. All predictions of the Law are built into it's observation, it offers no further or any more general description, it is merely a statement of what we've seen.

    The second key point of course is the colours we saw on that minimap which just happen to be those off the Venetian Flag as on wikipedia. This isn't even a law, it's just an observation, and saying that the best reason for this occurring is that the flag was used as a colour source is merely a conjecture. Based on everything we know about it, it seems correct, but it one thing, and there could be other explanations. At this point in time it would seem the only one, but that doesn't change the point.

    So no, they are not full well tested explanations that are predictive, they are instead as described as above. I would call them, if anything, 'the Law of City State Colour-Type Replacement' and the 'Wikivenetian Colour Conjecture', but calling them "theories" doesn't even make sense in this context. In a very casual entirely non-scientific sense theory can be used to mean just about anything, but in the same way literally can mean both "literally" and "not literally" and to be blunt, if we're going to get into that kind of discussion we may as well call it '\/3n1c3 SWAGYOLO #EUROCENTRISM #LiterallyTheory'.
     
  4. sukritact

    sukritact Artist and Modder

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    @Menzies: There is a colloquial meaning and this isn't a scientific study, does it truly matter in this context? Does it matter when we're in a forum that suggests Giant Spiders (jokingly) as an Australian UU?
     
  5. Menzies

    Menzies Menzies

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    From the previous post.
     
  6. sukritact

    sukritact Artist and Modder

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    In the colloquial sense, it honestly just means a set of thoughts/ideas. We're not scientists, yet some modicum of standardization should be observed, ensuring that everyone comprehends the message. (so that negates the use of "\/3n1c3 SWAGYOLO #EUROCENTRISM #LiterallyTheory"), but everyone else understands the SENSE that "theory" gives off, and as long as that is understood, it's fine. So we use the colloquial sense; a set of thoughts.

    If "\/3n1c3 SWAGYOLO #EUROCENTRISM #LiterallyTheory" were easily understood and comprehensible, then that'd be fine.
     
  7. Menzies

    Menzies Menzies

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    Bugger it, I give in, '\/3n1c3 SWAGYOLO #EUROCENTRISM #LiterallyTheory' it is.

    We could just call it '\/enice #SWAGYOLOTheory' for short?
     
  8. Bonci

    Bonci King

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    This goes directly in my signature :lol:
     
  9. sukritact

    sukritact Artist and Modder

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    :lol:

    Problem is, it's neither easily understandable nor widely used. "The Most Serene Venetian Theory of The Most Serene Venetian Republic of the Most Serene Venetian Venice™" would probably be more readily understandable IMHO, at least that has some precedent on these forums*.

    Edit: with public adoption a la the preceding post, this may no longer be the case....



    *in no way am I promoting this phrase for use by the general public
     
  10. Menzies

    Menzies Menzies

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    I'm sorry, the best I can do is 'The Most Serene Wikivenetian Theory of The Most Serene Venetian Republic of the Most Serene Venetian Venice™ SWAGYOLO #LiterallyTheory™'.
     
  11. sukritact

    sukritact Artist and Modder

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    You should trademark Wikivenetian.

    "The Most Serene Wikivenetian™ Theory of The Most Serene Venetian Republic of the Most Serene Venetian Venice™ SWAGYOLO@MOSTSERENEREPUBLIC #LiterallyMostSereneVenetianTheory™"
     
  12. Menzies

    Menzies Menzies

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    I think we have a winner.
     
  13. Joe Hoofer

    Joe Hoofer Chieftain

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    geez you guys :rotfl:
     
  14. seancolorado

    seancolorado Deity

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    So what are this week's prospects?
     
  15. Aaron90495

    Aaron90495 King

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    I think we'll get some info Monday or Tuesday, as they'd want to get the info out before it's swallowed up by the sea of E3 news.
     
  16. m15a

    m15a Emperor

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    and this is why people don't like talking to scientists. :sad:
    :rolleyes:
     
  17. blackcatatonic

    blackcatatonic Queen of Meme

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    I still say nothing this week and the final double reveal on June 14th.
     
  18. Eagle Pursuit

    Eagle Pursuit Scir-Gerefa

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    I think we could get some new Q&A or a featurette this week. And Zac Minor mentioned that rev3 is doing a tangential video based on what was released last time.

    However, regarding major info releases, I'll go with what blackcatatonic said above.
     
  19. seancolorado

    seancolorado Deity

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    My wishlist for info this week is stuff that sweeps the scattered dust under the rug once and for all:

    -Clarify France (confirm UU, elaborate on Chateau)

    -Clarify Indonesia (confirm continents rules, elaborate on unique luxury resources, reveal how many different kris swordsman upgrades there are total or if it's just three)
     
  20. HemlockMartinis

    HemlockMartinis Chieftain

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    I wish they'd at least tell us if any other civs beyond France have been updated. Confirmation of that alone could last us the week.
     

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