Informational Poll: FA Proposal regarding the war with Persia

[eyrei]

This is an informational poll regarding FA actions taken in the wake of the Persian/Babylonian alliance. Feel free to continue to discuss here, and if enough people don't like a particular aspect, I may remove it.

The actions to be taken if the poll result is a "Yes" are:

1. Sign a RoP and military alliance against Persia with the Greeks for ivory, 1gpt and our WM.

2. Sign a military alliance against Persia with France for 13gpt.

3. Sell China dyes for 21 gpt.

4. After 3 turns, end our alliances with the English and Americans against the babs. Follow this with a gift of incense to the English.

5. Gift incense to the Iroquois.

6. Sell the Americans gems for 10gpt.

7. After our alliances against the Babs have been cancelled, sign a peace treaty.

Note that the possibility of trade deals with Russia is being dealt with in a separate poll by the trade department.

 

[donsig]

Can't trade also handle the selling of our dyes and gems?

 

[eyrei]

Since the discussion was in the same thread as the rest of this proposal, and there weren't any arguments against these trades, I included them here. The trades with the Russians needed to polled separately anyway...

 

[Immortal]

donsig: I discussed with Eyrei the trades in question, I am alright with them, they are included in my trade discussion as well.

 

[donsig]

Originally posted by donsig
Can't trade also handle the selling of our dyes and gems?

I brought this up because when we have a poll like this one (and I do know it is informational) that has many parts it is quite possible that some will not even vote since there may be some aspects they object to. It is much wiser to poll things seperately unless it must be done as a package deal. I realize that FA has made many proposals that do have to be taken as an all or nothing proposal. I even think that parts of this proposal are such a package deal. i just don't think that selling luxuries is part of the package.

 

[eyrei]

Originally posted by donsig


I brought this up because when we have a poll like this one (and I do know it is informational) that has many parts it is quite possible that some will not even vote since there may be some aspects they object to. It is much wiser to poll things seperately unless it must be done as a package deal. I realize that FA has made many proposals that do have to be taken as an all or nothing proposal. I even think that parts of this proposal are such a package deal. i just don't think that selling luxuries is part of the package.

I have no desire to post 7 polls every time someone declares war on us...

Like I said, if there is something you disagree with, post it, and if a lot of people disagree with it, I will give it appropriate weight when making my decision.

 

[donsig]

Originally posted by eyrei

I have no desire to post 7 polls every time someone declares war on us...

Like I said, if there is something you disagree with, post it, and if a lot of people disagree with it, I will give it appropriate weight when making my decision.

I'm not suggesting you post seven polls every time someone declares war on us. As I said before, if you're proposing a package deal then by all means poll it together. But leave other items out of the poll.

Since you've told me to post my disagreements. I will do so.

1. Sign a RoP and military alliance against Persia with the Greeks for ivory, 1gpt and our WM.

I see no point in getting the Greeks killed off because Babylon got Persia to declare war on us. We do not need to distract the Greeks from us. We still despite two wars have yet to see a Persian unit. We can probably get 25gpt by selling that ivory. Since we still have spearman to upgrade I'd say we need the gold more.

2. Sign a military alliance against Persia with France for 13gpt.

I see no point in getting France killed either.

3. Sell China dyes for 21 gpt.
6. Sell the Americans gems for 10gpt.


Not bad trades but they should be handled by the trade dept.

4. After 3 turns, end our alliances with the English and Americans against the babs. Follow this with a gift of incense to the English.

Also not bad but we should also give them military tradition.

7. After our alliances against the Babs have been cancelled, sign a peace treaty.

We should keep fighting Babylon until they give us a tech. Even then we might want to continue the war in an effort to generate a great leader.

 

[Octavian X]

I will agree with the deals posted. I've always though it better to keep friends than make enemies. Besides, I find it much more comforting knowing someone far, far, away is getting killed, rather than us.

 

[donsig]

Originally posted by Octavian X
I will agree with the deals posted. I've always though it better to keep friends than make enemies. Besides, I find it much more comforting knowing someone far, far, away is getting killed, rather than us.

The more that get killed by Xerxes, the stronger Persia becomes...

 

[FortyJ]

Right... I'm not so sure I'd feel that great about Persia kicking the stuffing out of Greece or France (or God forbid, Greece and France) right now.

Persia is frighteningly powerful. I don't think we should be so cavalier about providing them with new enemies to conquer. We may wish to abandon the phony Persian war theory for a bit and hold off until we can actually bring some military might of our own into the equation.

 

[eyrei]

I am fairly sure that Persia's army is somewhat antiquated right now, consisting of a horde of immortals. At least that is how they usually end up in most of my games. Anyway, though their army is huge, France and Greece are technologically advanced civs, with strong economies. The Persians aren't going to encounter ancient and early medieval units when fighting them, like they did against the Romans and Zulus, but rather riflemen and cavalry.

 

[Cyc]

@ eyrei. Although I'm unsure how the Greeks and French stack up agianst the Persians Militarily, or how they would handle a combined war with the Persians, I do like parts of your proposal. I AM unsure of your exact reasonings for each step of your proposal. One of the things I enjoyed about reading your prior prosals was the detail and reasoning you used in explaining the motives behind the proposal. I don't see that here. I understand how you meant this to be a poll/discussion thread, but i really wanted more out of your first post.

 

[FortyJ]

Good points Eyrei. Persia should (hopefully) encounter a better fight with France and Greece due to the newer units in play, but I wonder what possible benefit we could get out of starting another 20 turns of war against Persia when we are currently debating ending the war against Babylon in 3 turns.

Shouldn't we consider giving peace a chance for three turns, and if Persia raises the stakes, then we go hunting for allies? Once we force peace with Babylon, thereby breaking their alliance with Persia, I imagine that Persia will be willing to entertain peace gestures too.

 

[eyrei]

Cyc, the reasons for these actions were included in the discussion thread, which I just realized I forgot to provide a link for...here it is.

FortyJ, I don't want to risk the possibility of a domino war by giving Persia a chance to pull in civs like France and Greece on their side. Since we don't have to worry about war weariness, it really doesn't matter how long we are at war with the Persians, as long as we are not losing.

 

[Feodor Ardent]

I am fairly sure that Persia's army is somewhat antiquated right now, consisting of a horde of immortals. At least that is how they usually end up in most of my games. Anyway, though their army is huge, France and Greece are technologically advanced civs, with strong economies. The Persians aren't going to encounter ancient and early medieval units when fighting them, like they did against the Romans and Zulus, but rather riflemen and cavalry.

Could the FA possibly draft a cav or an Envoy to go south from Leningrado and have a look around?

FortyJ, I don't want to risk the possibility of a domino war by giving Persia a chance to pull in civs like France and Greece on their side. Since we don't have to worry about war weariness, it really doesn't matter how long we are at war with the Persians, as long as we are not losing.

This is a key point. We need to come to some sort of diplomatic arrangement with these people to make sure they don't get bought off by the other side.