INI files: "defend"

Ah. :cool:

I understand now. The factorials are included because it's the probability, and not the mere calculation made by the prog. I see.

I gotta stop ranting about probabilities. Leave that to the experts.
 
FinnMcCool said:
Ah. :cool:

I understand now. The factorials are included because it's the probability, and not the mere calculation made by the prog. I see.

I gotta stop ranting about probabilities. Leave that to the experts.

Ah, there was a time (when i was 17, ie 10 years ago :eek: ) that i had been called "the virtuoso of probability theory". But i am not quite that nowdays...

If i was to actually work out the implications to the formula in the case that there was a variator inside the program, i would first have had to reread prob theory.
 
sorry bout the misunderstanding Varwnos...I assumed there was something I was missing, which is why I apologized ahead of time...I know little to nothing about scientists, I tend to know more about mystic/occult stuffs myself, as science often baffles me...

No offense taken...sorry to snap back like I did...
 
Spacer One said:
I know little to nothing about scientists, I tend to know more about mystic/occult stuffs myself, as science often baffles me...

You should find out about Newton and Leibniz then - Newton was an alchemist and Leibniz a cabbalist!
 
Ugh! Does someone have the good grace to say all those probability things in a way I can understand? I failed my probability test 1 month ago-like the rest of the class-, and we have had less than half the teaching/learning timewe were alotted... :( so I don´t understand most of it.
Anyway, does anyone want me to take it to the professor? He lives one block away from my home and I run into him every now and then, so he´s very easy to find...
 
you would need to do an in depth look at the code to see the actual probability

the basic grasp of the "probability" for this is 11 in 400...but thats a very rough estimate based on my limited testing...it works out to just under 5% chance to work in the right situation...(Varwnos correct me if Im wrong)
 
No way to tell what the probability is by just running tests, unless there is some very strict probability variator (as in the case of the if y different than a after n-1 attempts, then y=a).
You could, however, limit even more the factoes, and see if the probability increases, this tying another factor to its triggering.

You could do this with original HP difference; turn of occurence etc

From what i gather atm you have already seen no trigger the first turn, or if the attacking unit has less HP. You could examine the cases where the defend ini was triggered, and see if there is another set factor there.

Originally probability theory was developed to predict the outcome of games (eg throwing of the dice) and although in reality it is not very good at doing that (since there are physical forces at play there; how you threw the dice) it can predict the purely theoretical outcome for a near-infinite number of times the event takes place.

So having it trigger 10 times in 400 tests, does not mean that the probability is 2,5%. It could have triggered more times, or less. Even if you had run 1 billion tests you would still not have the exact probability (i do not remember, infact, if for so large numbers of tests there is a diagram that predicts the progression of the actual probability in relation to the one which is being falsely witnessed, but i suspect that there is).

Your best bet is to try to examine if there are even more set factors ;)
 
And how do you do that?
 
well to tell you the truth, as I have proved that it does work, my testing is "complete"...all I wanted to see was an explainable reason why it would trigger.

what I see is that a unit that has been damaged/fortified and attacked will "Defend" itself...what the exact reason is, we may never determine. No Matter how many tests I run...since I cant set a unit to be damaged, I have to rely on luck to make the situation occur...what the exact parameters are, is about as easy to figure out as "Why does a unit retreat"...there may be parameters for retreat as well, but they dont matter...

Basically I personally will not be testing anymore, as I have "Proved" the hypothesis (A unit can use its Defend command under "Some" parameters)...I got the aproximate 1 in 40(under the right circumstances) and thats good enough for me :)...I have put FLCs into several units in my current MOD to see if they happen, and without setting up the situation, I havent seen it once...so its Rare...How rare, I may never know...like I said, all I "Know" is that it can happen :)

@Takhisis...you would have to run another several thousand(if not million) tests and log all parameters and results...taking into consideration EVERY variable (terrain, HP of both units, tests on 1/1 and 1/2 and 2/1 and 2/2 etc units...)...many more that I cant think of, but ALOT of variables are present
 
Probably the defend option was meant to act as a no-lose situation for the defending unit (?) so it would be expected that it didnt trigger that often.
On the other hand it would have had been more usefull if the probability that it triggered got enlarged by some techs/buildings/resources etc :)
 
Perhaps that´s why they left it blank in the original ini files... Well, thanks, guys!
 
I'm still going to make use of it with my units, though... This is just too interesting to pass up, not to mention that it will add some more FF-esque style to the FF mod, since limit break attacks are also rare and sort of represent a no-lose scenario (since they always have a 100% chance of hitting an opponent in the FF games).
 
I agree...the defend seems PERFECT for limit breaks...tho Im also sure that Firaxis didnt plan on that use...

@Aaglo, Orthanc and any other Shipmaker reading this...would it be worthwhile to test this for Naval units??? Im willing to test the similar situation for boats...
 
I hate bumping when I posted last but...We forgot about slapping this new discovery on the front page...

Finn, I would like you to do it...but I will if you dont...this is the best thing Ive seen discovered in CIV3 modding in a long time...and should be shared with any unit maker who cares to know...
 
Hey, why not ME? After all, I´m the one who started the thread... but I can sell you a 48% of the rights of DEFEND anim production...
For ships: with the Quinquereme made by, IIRC, aaglo, you could put the anim where it launches the boarding ramp in the DEFEND slot, so it sometimes uses the ramp more than once...
 
Takhisis said:
Hey, why not ME? After all, I´m the one who started the thread... but I can sell you a 48% of the rights of DEFEND anim production...
For ships: with the Quinquereme made by, IIRC, aaglo, you could put the anim where it launches the boarding ramp in the DEFEND slot, so it sometimes uses the ramp more than once...
Not certain who did that animation. It was certainly complex enough to have been one of Aaglo's masterworks. But, in this case I think it was Orthanc??
Either way, certainly a cool enough animation that seeing a few extra times would be good.
 
Well, I'm two animations away from releasing the first unit with a specifically designed DEFEND animation... My Elvaan Marine, who during normal attack sequence, fires two single shots, then a 3-round burst, which repeats ad-infinitum (much like my modern "sniper" units), however, if the DEFEND conditions are met, she'll rock full-auto. :cool:
 
Great...I will run a new set of tests then...and try to get more details on the why part...and at the same time, run some boat tests...

oh and BTW Takh...48%?? for starting the thread? like 60+ is all me...I sat at this *poop*ie laptop watching DaVinci tanks attack for hours, waiting for one of em to turn into a Panzer tank...(sigh) guess the "working man" gets the shaft again...:rolleyes:

I dont care who does it, but Monday Im gonna if noone wants to...this is FRONT PAGE NEWS...like stop the presses stuff...
 
Tell me when you´re gonna post it so I can collect my 35% percent of the winnings.
 
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