initial build strategy

[curmudgeon42]

Hey, I'm new to the Civilization series. I realize that everyone is new to the game, but there are a lot of Civ2 and Civ experts that have some idea on how the game works.

I can play just fine, but I always seem to be expanding slower than the computer in the beginning of the game.

I thought it might help people if you guys could post your initial build strategies (what units to build, when to start on yr first wonder, early city improvements, etc.).

Thanks

 

[Jonathunder]

Build a city pretty quickly--within the first few moves. I've found this is more critical in Civ III than in previous versions. If you don't, a barbarian will come out of nowhere and kill you.

Explore just a little, though, if you can before settling down. Find a spot that can be developed and defended. Don't worry much about resources. Your first city will be around for a long time, and other cities can bring it the resources you need. Plus, most resources don't show up until later in Civ III.

If you encounter other nations, be at peace with them early on. Concentrate on building and expanding.

Build one (not more) military unit per city. That is just enough to keep the barbarians away.

The thing you should build most in the early game is settlers. Start spreading your civilization through a network of cities.

Starting Colosus early can be a very good strategy. It is a very helpful wonder for making a science city. And that is helpful no matter what strategy you choose. I often make my capital city a science city.

Have fun.

 

[Magnus]

capital (first city) exploring unit first, then 2 defenders, then settler, (who is escorted by one of the defenders, then temple then wonder or another settler depending on what I have researched.

other cities (which are already defended) temple, then defender then settler, then other improvement (barracks/walls) then worker pr settler depending on population size..

I build offensive units as needed.

 

[RagingBull]

Haven't you guys been reading the other threads lately?? There are way more effective strategies out there for developing your empire and ensuring late game success. The prevailant strategy seems that a militaristic expansion is the most advantageous. Although i have to agree that finding a city VERY SOON (as in immediately) is very important, i have learned that in almost any level (Chief to Emperor - haven't tried Deity) all the other civs will expand impossibly fast. The only way to curb their eventual domination of your continent and thus securing your own, is to fight them. No way around it. If you take the peaceful route, your empire will end up being intertwined (sphere of influences are all mixed up) and your territory will look like a technic-colored painting.
-Set your tech to 0%. Buy them from your friends... or force them off your enemy when you sue for peace.
-DO NOT build settlers, exception to this is when building a new city at some choke point on the continent will be usefull. One such example is in the World Map, where a city in Central America can bottle neck any South American invaders and serve as the Panama Canal.
-BIG ARMY. Period. That's all you need to know. Build your army up and stack them out side your enemy's city.
-Repeat this until you have taken over the entire contient or a region where you feel comfortable working in.

i have been doing this and have managed to clear out pretty much the entire continent before 1000BC. Although sometimes the computer cheaps like a @#!(^&!@.

 

[Magnus]

I think playing a militaristic civ, your idea makes sense, but I have no problem winning by culture and shrewd trading as well.

 

[curmudgeon42]

Yes, bull. That is one way to win. But I am definitely sure it isn't the ONLY way to win. I would prefer not to get embroiled in war that early. If you can advance quicker than the other civs, and out-culture them, you can destroy them later on, with more powerful units. If you take your route, and you have some bad luck, the entire game is lost. And the reason that the AI expands so fast is why I wanted to know how everyone's initial build worked, because it is SO important.

 

[doink66]

I agree with Bull to a point. In my game I started exploring and expanding with a few cities. When I ran into the Russians I made peace with them and started some minor trading. Before I knew it the Russians were building cities right next to mine.. even deep in my territory between my cities. This seemed very odd for an ally of mine.

Eventually I had to go to war with them just to get rid of their cities that were moving in on my resources. While this was happnening other civs who I made peace with moved into my territory and did the same thing, sprouting 1 population cities all over my damn territory. I wanted to win through culture and trade, but they are forcing me to go to war with them just to get them out of my personal space.

Don't your allies respect your area in the game? Because of the need for resources I am quickly finding out that military conquest seems to be my only option. Anyone else having this problem?

Also how the hell do you absorb an enemy city through culture.. I have 2 12 pop cities with like 1000+ culture on either side of an enemy 1 pop city with no culture and after 20+ turns they are still sitting there breaking up my road network.

 

[Sam_Catchem]

I have to admit I want to try the early blitzkrieg method..I just cannot do it. Maybe I am chicken...wait I know I am early on...just not that bold.

I tend to play it like I did Civ2. Develop Tech, expand and so forth and then go out of the warpath..and later the spypath. I guess it is a hangup..but it seems to be working OK. Although, I am only playing on Warlord til I get a bit more comfortable with how everything works. This is a very different game than Civ2. I wait until the middle age (when I have sizable civ and infrastructure) and then go out with knights and do some hack and slash campaigns and take turf and sue for money and techs or whatever I can get and then repeat. You can get more out of them later..and then when you take a city it is mostly developed. So whether you raze it or take it...the city is very good.

The last time I was a super aggressive was in Civ1 (man..how long ago was that!.) I started sacking cities as soon as I got the chariot. Maybe that strat works now..just not that comfortable doing it. I'd love to hear other people who are aggressive early on. I must admit sometimes you have no choice. They are just too close...I just try to avoid unless it is a necessity.

 

[curmudgeon42]

The culture thing is strange. It must be a highly random formula. I have had cities right next to my own territory that don't come to my side. However, at the same time (same game) I had a city across an ocean that wanted to join me. Very strange. I ended up selling that city back to its original owner for MAD cash, and it came back to me like 20 turns later.

 

[jhigham]

To help figure out 'optimal' build strategies it may be worth watching the AI. Play a few sample games with expansionist civs, and just build scouts to watch them, plus trade maps (if you get to map making) then quit. Here is what I've gathered from this:

1) Build settlers in your first few cities as soon as possible after they hit 3 pop. Watch the build time, and you may want to change production to the settler and produce right after you gain a level.

2) Build your early cities in grassland, you need the growth potential, but then use mines not irrigation (irrigation will build your city too fast, you want to crank out units).

2) I build a defender while I wait for my city to grow to 3, but usually that will suffice in the early game.

I'm not any great expert, so I'm certain there are better strategies, but this usually lets me get started ok. It's my early/mid game that really hurts; I don't keep expanding hard enough (esp since I'm not military oriented) so the other civs beat me on city numbers.

 

[Wardawg]

I don't have any special insight into how to start out, unless you count lessons learned on what NOT to do. Most importantly, I have found that you should Not attempt to wipe out a neighbor first thing, unless you are playing on an island heavy map and you and your neighbor start out on a relatively small island. Trying to wipe out a neighbor first thing on any other kind of map will put you so far behing logistically (city improvements and such) that you will have to be extremely lucky to catch up with the other civs. On a small island this is alright because you can use your relative isolation for defense while you consolidate your new holdings. In my experience, establishing piece and attempting to outgrow your nieghbors is athe best bet. However, be sure to produce enough units to establish an effective border guard so that you're covered in case your neighbor decides to stab you in the back.

 

[Scary Penguin]

I haven't done the math to see if this is optimized, but I've been doing:

1. - warrior (either garrisons an already empty city, or frees the existing garrison unit to accompany other settlers/explore)

2 - settler

3 - granary

3.5 - worker

4 - settler

5 - temple

6 - settler

I use the whip whenever 1 citizen would finish the project, and mix it up a little if the city isn't growing enough to support that many settlers.

 

[Mikeweather]

My strategy goes

1. Found city within 1 or 2 squares of where you start.

2. build 1 or 2 warriors (for exploring, goody huts, use explorers if you have them) depending on how many bonus grassland squares are in your city's radius.

3. build settler, if you do it right you'll get the settler built right as you get enough population points.

4.build temple, cause you city'll revolt real quick without it.

5. by this time your second city should be founded and you should have located the nearest civ. Repeat steps 1-4 till you get a decent fighting force, or till you have a lot of the map explred. Then, if you have warriors, go take a city of the nearest civ with lots of tech/money and sell it back to him. If you have explorers, then just make a bee-line for goody huts and explore as much of the world as possibe. Your world map will be worth a lot if you keep it to yourself for a while.

 

[WonderPup]

Greetings, all. First post here... be kind!

Anyway, I tend to go with a peaceful strategy myself. The discussion on the "pope strategy" in the thread titled "The Perfect Strategy" really helped my early game.

That said, I think it is essential to have the ability to engage in an early war. That doesn't mean you need to do so, but you need the ability to do so.

I have started the habit of creating a slew of warriors right off the bat. You don't need a cultural improvement in your capitol right away, since the capitol itself will serve that purpose. You need something to do before building that first settler, so build 2 warriors, even 3 if you have a city that can produce them and still get the settler out just after the population jump to 3 citizens.

The goal for these initial warriors is to grab nearby goodie huts and determine the location of your second city. The placement of the second city is, in my opinion, the key to getting a good start. You want to find something that has both good production and food and is close enough that you can settle it quickly--preferably 3-4 tiles from the capitol.

The second city should also produce 2-3 warriors. You'll now have 4-6 warriors at your disposal. Send them out in pairs, staggered a square or two off to maximize your map discovery. Your goal here is, in order: Locate and grab goodie huts, locate opponents, and locate prime real estate for expansion.

Why send warriors in pairs? Logistical support. If a goodie hut releases barbarians, you'll have something to fight back with. (The early game seems to only release a single warrior from goodie huts most of the time; I think I've seen more, but usually just one.) This way you can still lose a warrior and not take several turns getting a new warrior in place to do the mapping.

Also, if you run across an enemy city, you can make an assessment of the situation. Odds are, the AI will only have a single warrior in the city. Open up a trade negotiation, get whatever tech and gold you can from him, and invade. 2 warriors on 1 will usually be enough to get the job done. Not only does this give you a free city, but it takes one away from the AI. Instead of a 2-2 tie in cities, you are up 3-1, and that is usually enough to cripple the AI well into the mid-game. He may survive (if you don't take his second city) but will end up behind in the land grab. If you are lucky enough to find his capitol with your initial group of 2-3 warriors, rush the capitol. You'll get the AI to restart elsewhere on the map, and you should end up with a pretty good spread of real estate to work with before meeting another opponent.

Obviously, if you run into an opponent with spearmen already in the city, invading with warriors won't work. But often, you'll find that warriors are the ones holding down the fort. Again, obvioiusly, some of this depends on the geography, and how many/how few opponents are in your way to start the game. If I can't kill an enemy city before they've settled their third city, I'm probably not going to be able to do so. Which comes back to the importance of getting several warriors out into the field early in the game. You don't HAVE to wage war, but you need to discover right away if you have the opportunity.

Beyond that, I usually wait on culture in my second city as well, figuring that I would rather have one more settler out in the field than worry about cultural borders when the second city isn't likely to be on the frontier anyway.

I also set tech to 10%. There seems to be no difference between 10% and 50% in the early game, yet you still can increase gold production while not losing speed in tech. Don't set tech to 0--you still want to get that one extra tech to sell--but set it down to 10.

Every opponent you meet (even the one you are about to kill in 3000 BC!) is a trading partner. Get any tech you can. Pay lump sum cash, then trade that tech back to everyone else you've met. The AI will trade if you don't, so make the cash for yourself. Sell for gold per turn if possible, since it is worth more in the long run, unless you need to make some quick cash to buy a new tech from someone. In that case, sell for lump sum gold. Any opportunity you get to trade for communications, do it. (To this end, it helps to make an early galley or two for the purpose of establishing communications with another continent. Just need to meet one; the rest will trade communications to you.)

Take advantage of the fact you can rushbuild improvements like temples and libraries under despotism by sacrificing population. If you have a good location, your food and population have a good chance of outpacing your ability to keep them happy, so kill two birds with one stone and sacrifice that population point that is about to become unhappy in order to rushbuild that temple. This is another good reason to shoot for the Pyramids early on, since you can rushbuild more and recover faster. (Plus, the Pyramids never expire, the only early Wonder where that is true.)

Once you move to Republic, you'll need the temples in place since military units can't be used against unhappiness. Be sure to get the infrastructure in place. When you switch to Republic, you'll be able to increase science a bit and still make a ton of gold to rushbuild or trade.

I'm convinced that it is very difficult to get ahead in the early game in C3. I've switched to just not wanting to be behind. I've found that once I get into the next age, I've got enough gold and infrastructure in place to start to make my move then. In C2, I often build the fewest number of military units possible, especially early on, but in C3, I think it is more important to get a bunch of units out into the field ASAP. Even if you plan a peaceful strategy, you need to claim goody huts and pick off easy opponents as soon as you can. Goody huts can reveal techs that in turn reveal horses and iron, and that may make a huge difference in the direction you want to expand. You need this information ASAP, unlike C2 where you could get by for a while without certain techs. This is a huge difference between the games.

Sorry for the long winded post. Opinions welcome.

 

[liupang]

But I still find sword a much better option.

With some tweak and build cities close together, build lots of workers and abuse the depotism 's whip , I finally able to expand a good size of cities, no falling too far behind AIs. My best game so far I have 7 cities before 1000BC, all build by myself, and 3 of them are over size 10 And that's on Deity.

But in my first deity game, where I played much less skillful, I easily got 10 cities around same time frame, plus have 2 Great Leaders! My second game, I took out Jap's 10+ cities before 1500BC , it was fo fast that they respawned. . Plus, in those 2 games I am all tech advanced due to my constant torturement of my unfortunate neighbours.


In my current game, my tech lags behind at least 4-5 steps, even I am the scientific persian, and I have the #1 population in the game, also 3-4 libs. Actually, I 've been abandoing the peaceful approach and build up a good size army. I plan to launch the war as long as I enter Monarch, to trigger a much needed Golden age and grab some good wonders(sistines , etc.).

My initial plan is to see how far can I go with a peaceful/scientific approach. As far as I can see, I can make a decent effort, but the tempt to wage a war at certain point just seems undeniable.

I will eventually try an all-out expansion-culture game, with assimilation my only way to get enemy cities, and focus on researching/tech brokering. The downside, though, as O4B once point out, the AIs has a 60% discount on production/sci research in deity. By invest on researching/wonder grabbing you are playing into their advantage.

Militarily though, AI don't have same advantage except for larger size of army due to cheaper production. But that can be easily overcome by human(Me )'s superior tactical maneuver. I hope there is some way in Sci that by carefully planning, you can perform better than computers. Sadly that was not in the design. ( Surely, looking at the Sci. trees, if they tried harder in designing it, they can really make the reasearch tree a tricky one---too bad they didn't. )

 

[Moeniir]

Originally posted by WonderPup
Greetings, all. First post here... be kind!

Great first post! Keep posting!

I also prefer the peaceful strategy, but have had some trouble using the pope strategy due to aggresively expansionist neighbors. I like your early game approach... i tend to start focusing on city improvements too soon, and always end up behind in the land grab. I also like to bypass warriors for spearmen if I get bronze working early, but i think this is slowing down my growth too much. I'll be giving your approach a try soon.

Originally posted by WonderPup
Beyond that, I usually wait on culture in my second city as well, figuring that I would rather have one more settler out in the field than worry about cultural borders when the second city isn't likely to be on the frontier anyway.

Sound reasoning. Like I said, I usually go for improvements too soon.

What's your take on a good civ for this strategy? I like the expansionists... helps to have a scout or two who can cover ground quickly to find far away civs, and it's nice not to worry about barbarians in the goody hut grab. So far with this strat I've tried the English and the Americans. I like both, but with the english I'm always stuck near the russians and germans, not always with happy results

Thanks again for the great post.

 

[knowltok]

I've heard it said that building a warrior and then rushing a granery can get you the fastest (peaceful expansion). You will need to keep the warrior at home when you rush the granery since you create discontent, but a granery in your fist few cities can be key since killing pop for production is a key strategy.:crazyeyes

 

[cph]

In cheiftan and warlord it should not be difficult to keep up with the ai in settlers. Build for all cities defense+settler+?+settlers+?+settlers+...

The '?' depend on the situation and how much food/production you city has. High food/low production cities might jusr push out settler+worker+settler+... while low food/high production can throw in temples, explorers, in between. Don't worry about offensive units until you have about the majority of the cities you want. Then start producing improvements, workers and offense.

At some point, after 5-6 cities, I start using my highest producing city (maybe top 2) to start wonder productions. First is usually the Pyramids (free granaries are nice). Because of this, I don't build granaries at all. I generally don't rush my cities at first b/c I am trying to get settlers out so pop means alot to me. Also, the americans are explorers so I've sent out 4-5 scouts and have generally advanced much higher than the AI in techs by the time I am ready to stop expanding. At this point, I put libraries at top priority so that I can keep up my science.

In my currnt game (Warlord) I am nearly and age ahead. Mainly the other civs are this close to me b/c I had to trade some techs for resources that weren't in my large boundaries.

Higher than warlord I've found that if you don't build a nice size army as you build settlers than you will face many demands early in the game. If you don't concede to these demands then you will be faced with war.

So in these levels and early good size military is important. If you still want to play peaceful the just build plenty of defensive units and let them grind their teeth down on your spearmen/pikemen. They will sue for peace if they loose their entire army.

Also, here is a key, BUILD CITIES IN DESERTS AND TUNDRAS. If you want the resource that occur there later in the game (oil) you need to have cities there early in the game or the AI will take it.

Also build near mountains, hills, jungles and forest. Don't knock down all the forest or ou may lose rubber.

 

[DavesWorld]

I'll chime in and say I also prefer not to do the early-military thing. Its fun, but it *guarantees* the game will take three or four times as long; and my CivIII games already average 10-15 hours for a full game. Even playing as obsessively as I do that often means two or three evenings of play.

I also prefer to be a builder, with powerful cities; I have found you often just can't build up properly *and* crank out units. Its hard to be in a useful government while in Conquest mode; Demo/Rep have WarWeariness and Monarchy has corruption and bad commerce generation.

For building, the point is the PopPoints; have them on the board working for you with buildings multiplying their efforts. Ensure they're always working developed squares, with mines/irrigation/roads. Ensure you're not growing a city unable to grow (i.e., no Aquaduct/Hospital, or a lack of happy buildings to keep the new PopPoints in check). Workers are *critical* to the Builder strategy; have them fixing your lands. When you get Railroads you'll probably need to add more Workers to finish the RRing on your lands.

 

[xenzat]

My main focus in the early game is getting warriors out to explore for many reasons:

1) I can send the settlers to regions I know have serious resources that will jump start my cities.
2) My warriors can make contact with other villages, getting either a science, military unit (to do more exploring) or even a settler...
3) Meeting other barbarians and killing them for sometimes 25 gold or 50 gold and in the process, making an elite out of the warrior
4) Meeting the rival AI's early in the game is good because they often want to trade sciences, and I just do counter proposals and give them cash from the dead barbarians instead of my science.

Now, you're probably thinking, how the hell do you do that with a unit that only moves a single square at a time?
Well, here's the trick, take it to the mountain! The warrior travelling from hilltop to hilltop can survey an incredible amount of space.

During your exploration, your initial worker needs to get to work. His initial moves and roadbuilding can also have a significant effect on the long term. I think that it is worth the effort to build a road to a luxury, even if it's in the mountain... But if there are no luxuries in plain sight, then the worker should focus his work on plains so that he can build roads faster.

Usually, I build the road in spaces previously explored by one of my exploring warriors. My first city builds three warriors: the first two go and explore, the third stays behind to guard the city. If my city is at population 4 after the third warrior is built, then I build my first settler, otherwise I recall the worker to increase the city's production.

The first settler get's no escort because by the time he's off to build a city, one of my exploring warriors is one his way back, to pass through and he'll take on any wandering barbarians. The second city will first build a 1-warrior, 2-temple or barrack and the worker should already be working on a road for the third city. If the second city grows rapidly because of the choice location and the mines and road already in place then after the city improvement, both the capital and the second city should be ready for settler production.

If I've met an AI already and he's not to far, then I would get the two settlers to go near the AI's border to settle there, for two reasons:
1) I'm creating a border with the AI and chances are he'll start expanding in the other direction, so I'll be able to settle the rest of the spare space at your leisure.
2) Later in the game, I can build palace in those bordering cities and chances are, the AI's bordering cities will want to join me.

After I've established four cities, there isn't another city established without a warrior or archer for immediate security and city happiness. I try to build as many wonders as possible too. The first two wonders are usually built in my capital city, after I build a second worker... The second city may also build two wonders... But it's not impossible to get more than half of the wonders completed.

My general rule is, until the date is 0 A.D. I try to expand aggressively, after 0 A.D. I need to work at seriously improving the city, roads, irrigation, mining, the works.

I don't worry too much about the time it takes to research new sciences because most of the time, I can just buy them and they're not expensive at the beginning of the game. Once I notice the AI has no more sciences for me to buy, then I pay more attention to sciences I pick. But I only start accelarating research when I'm in the middle ages.

Anyway, I feel I'm telling my life story here so I'll stop... Go ahead and give a try, see what happens. This usually get's me off to a good start, sometimes a great start!

Good luck
Xenzat