Innovation challenge

[cabert]

I dunno.
Spearman rush?

already done with shaka, more than once actually.

you can see some details of that game in the major 49 thread, the few elements I gave are in the post 40 on page 2. The game is not yet published, so I can't provide a link to the saves.
Still, I rushed 2 civilizations with impis alone.

Holkans are also spear based and don't require resources.
I guess someone already rushed with them and you may find some tips about it...

I mean, I think that all the strats that are virtually guaranteed to work, regardless of situation, have been voiced...that's why so many players use them to such great effect. Even the 'lesser-known' strats such as Warrior, Knight, or HA assaults have been shown numerous times.

That's just the "what to attack with" part.
Among the tricks I'm still learning, there are
- "what to bulb for a specific result"
- "what to oracle for a specific result"
- "what to get from liberalism for a specific result".

These days I'm bulbing very little, and using a lot of "mausolleum boosted" golden ages, and I'm not a great source of info for the bulb part.

What to oracle ?
I tried some specific strats, with sometimes success, and sometimes not :
- oracling feudalism for a fast conquest (because it allows capitulation!) didn't work well, because the resources I put into the oracle and the techs i needed in this direction didn't help me grow strong and my neighbours didn't feel teh need to capitulate
- oracling construction worked fine in warlords for the hwachas. now in BTS it's not much fun, those troops don't kill anymore
- oracling mathematics for better chopping could be fun, although you have so many techs opened by writing that cost more than maths it's a pity. That's someting i've never done.
- oracling currency is great (ability to build wealth allows infinite rexing IMHO). I don't know why no one never mentions this + it makes CoL cheaper and thus it's a double win strat IMHO. it's a lot easier than civil service and thus is doable on emperor+ with a good start.
other oracling options have been mentioned in various threads, and thus I won't expand (theology for super early religious victory for instance) on them

What to get for free from liberalism?
I'm not a big fan of postponing free speech and free religion, so I'm no big fan of getting the super expensive techs from lib.
However I've done 2 tricks lately for good use :
- I went all the way to lib, with just a few beakers left then teched to scientific method through chemistry. After sci met, I lost quite a number of beakers from the monasteries and the great library, but 1 turn later thanks to lib, I got biology and my farms got so strong I could get scientists everywhere to get my beakers back
- trick 2 is the same, except I traded for astronomy (in fact I stole it from my neighbour with the accumulated EP over 5000 years), and got physics from lib.
Being the first there I got a great scientist that I bulbed for biology (I had another that I had kept for this and bulbed twice giving me the whole tech in the same turn). Since I wanted to go the pysics route, it was very nice .

Other tricks are very often discovered in the HoF section :
- using the initial settler for worker/setler fishing on low levels
- hammer economy
- gifting a city with the AP religion to tokugawa to triger the diplo victory election
...
Those aren't totally new, although the HoF section doesn't seem to get all the attention it should get.

It's a good thread idea, but I guess it's more a sign of the end of the intellectual challenge of cIV.

 

[Hereditary Rule]

I'm sorry everyone but I don't think I am going to be able to host this game. I recently upgraded to Vista and am having some issue with screenshots not saving (never had trouble in XP). I've just spent 2 hours researching on the internet but cannot seem to find the solution.

Maybe when I get this resolved I can post a game but I'm not sure how long it'll take. I'm giving up for now and will work on in some more this weekend.

In the meantime, if any of the posters in this thread want to start a game, please by all means do. I will be an active contributor in lieu of host.

 

[Ghpstage]

I'm sorry everyone but I don't think I am going to be able to host this game. I recently upgraded to Vista and am having some issue with screenshots not saving (never had trouble in XP). I've just spent 2 hours researching on the internet but cannot seem to find the solution.

Maybe when I get this resolved I can post a game but I'm not sure how long it'll take. I'm giving up for now and will work on in some more this weekend.

In the meantime, if any of the posters in this thread want to start a game, please by all means do. I will be an active contributor in lieu of host.

Um have you tried the obvious of using print screen then pasting into Paint?

 

[Terrance888]

Raze Game: NEED: Imperialistic Enemy. Agressive Trait.

Every new city they make, raze it and pocket the money and workers, then declare peace. Rinse and repeat.

got me to Space thatway on the back of thos ottoman dude.

 

[deathturnip]

So glad that this thread served its purpose. Now to test march out further. If you get that march game running, I will definitely shadow, even though Monarch is the limit to my skill.

About the PE, it is a very interesting idea but there are a few problems. Since every city needs to be able to participate in every activity, city specialization will be allot weaker, and you need more buildings in every city now to get maximum effect. It could be a valuable move if you are missing a certain type of city or need a big surge of anything, just convert the flexible cities, but I doubt it will ever be a good replacement for properly specialized powerhouses.

 

[pigswill]

One potential drawback of using march is that you miss out on two diffferent promotions e.g. CR2 which significantly affects your initial combat odds which increases the chance of a unit dying before it has a chance to heal.

edit: iirc melee/gunpowder units upgraded to mech inf automatically get free march though that is pretty late in the game.

 

[Zack]

One potential drawback of using march is that you miss out on two diffferent promotions e.g. CR2 which significantly affects your initial combat odds which increases the chance of a unit dying before it has a chance to heal.

Gunpowder units can't get CR unless they are upgraded IIRC.

 

[Cookie Crumbs]

I'm playing Boudica of Ethiopia (Emperor, Epic, Standard) for some insane Oromo Warriors right now. I bulbed my way to Liberalism to grab Gunpowder with it, then switched to Vassalage/Theocracy to pump out C3 Oromos that are 1 EXP from gaining March. I used a mixture of spies and catapults/trebs to strip defense, although you'd probably want spies because waiting 2-3 turns to remove defenses because of castles defeats half the purpose of March, although it still means you can take your siege and wounded units and head off to the next city with no delay (after garrisoning the latest conquest).

 

[PieceOfMind]

If you were using the first two promotions for Drill 3 and 4 instead you probably wouldn't need march. Especially if you're combining them with some collateral from trebs etc. they'd rarely take a scratch from combat anyway. Having an extra combat promo on a D4 unit is pretty significant - you effectively multiply that +10% by all the new added first strikes, and I'd reckon that having D4/C1 already at 5XP means you'll absolutely rocket through the xp. You'd be at C3 by 12xp and march by 19xp anyway. THough march at 19xp would be pretty pointless by then I admit, but I would usually dare to say march on drill is not necessary.

 

[Kerran]

I'm sorry everyone but I don't think I am going to be able to host this game. I recently upgraded to Vista and am having some issue with screenshots not saving (never had trouble in XP). I've just spent 2 hours researching on the internet but cannot seem to find the solution.

Maybe when I get this resolved I can post a game but I'm not sure how long it'll take. I'm giving up for now and will work on in some more this weekend.

In the meantime, if any of the posters in this thread want to start a game, please by all means do. I will be an active contributor in lieu of host.

Are you playing in window or full-screen mode? I'm running Vista too, and screenshots work perfectly in full-screen mode but not at all in window mode

 

[troytheface]

having posted a game and played around with the notion confrimed the suspician that one can take any set of circumstances and post screenshots about it with a win.

(reloading- scoping out the map etc) - in other words a posted game means absolutely nothing in so far as truth or workability.

walkthroughs with favorable settings are even more laughable.

 

[Grey2ham]

Multiplayer strategy requires much more originality. Especially against people you usually play.
I always play with my housemate (Prince/Monarch 16 Civs Standard size Epic speed). I'm usually a war mongerer. We're very much evenly matched.
Last 2 wins (no losses inbetween)
Amphibious assault from transport and destroyers with rifleman/cannons to destroy his WS/OU 2xholy shrine city.
He lost over 500gold and 300research for razing one-city. Effectively eliminating him. He was ahead in tech, but left one city relatively unguarded that the AI wouldn't have attacked. My fleet took 10 turns to sneak around his LOS. (comp would have gone straight for it)

2nd Win:
Culture. He never saw it coming. He had tech lead, better military, better economy. He got complacent, he never could work out why my research was so pants. Even when i was 72 turns for physics (100% culture).

In general: Finding ways to screw him is the most fun I've had with Civ 4 ever. It makes me do weird things. Espionage becomes way more important. I need to know what he's doing. In single player I'm not so fussed.

 

[madscientist]

One concept that has not been really explored much and I sort of discovered this doign teh Current RPC.

Colonies.

What are the benefits and disadvantages of spawning new colonies either from settled areas or conquering civilization and spawning off a new colony rather than accepting capitulation.

Some of my Comments, feel free to run with them (or ignore them!)

MAP: Works best on an Archeopolego type map although some of those big/small or medium/small maps may be OK

Benefits:
Permanent friends (unless you are a ruthless, despotic overlord)
Alot less Maintence
AP, UN votes
Foreign open border trade route yields
Extra Happiness (never quite realized this benefit until I found +8 happy on the current RPC)
Trading for lone resources someone else has (again, in the RPC I traded for a leaders lone Coal resource)
One less military front to defend.
You control someone elses research who is friendly to help you

Disadvantages
Less Land (land is power after all)
Diplomacy is tricky as free leaders may HATE your Ally.
Some Allies may not be exactly sociable (Isabella, Shaka)

Reasons to Spawn Colonies from conquered lands rather than Capitulation
Happiness rather than "we Yearn to Join our Homeland"
No need to station part of your army to defend it.
Some leaders are great Military Spammers.
It takes a LONG time for a conquered vassal to like you compared with a new colony.

Just some ideas here.

By the way FutureHermit, if this thread continues to be popular perhaps you can ask a moderator to Stickie it so it does not fall off the board.

 

[Iranon]

There are some more benefits

- they get 2 instant military units per city
- foreign trade under Mercantilism
- they get those delicious AI bonuses on higher levels
- they upgrade units cheaply... feed them for fun and profit

 

[madscientist]

There are some more benefits


- foreign trade under Mercantilism

I never realized this one. THAT is a big advantage if you have enough colonies.

 

[PieceOfMind]

This will probably be considered an exploit by most because it takes advantage of a game mechanic the player is not "meant" to know about.

I'm going to mention it here because I don't think I've seen it mentioned on the forums by anyone other than myself, let alone advocated by other players.

On Prince and lower difficulties you are given what are called "barb free wins". At Prince you get 1, and for every step in difficulty lower you get 1 more free win. Let's say this is the starting value of the barb_free_win counter. Whenever you win a battle (whether attacking or defending) with a barbarian or animal, the counter reduces by 1 until it reaches 0.

The hidden mechanic here is that until that counter reaches 0 combat resolution is being fudged. No matter what defensive bonuses or promotions or unit types are involved, the barbarian or animal's odds for each combat rounds are reduced to no more than 10% and hence your own odds for each round to no less than 90%. This means if you use your free wins for incredibly difficult battles, you can rack up the maximum amount of xp (10 for barbs) from a single battle for as many units as you have barb free wins. For example, launch your unpromoted warrior at a barb axeman standing on a forest. The game will report your winning odds as very bad but in fact your odds are really good (probably around at least 95% to 99%).

Since you usually want to obtain a 10XP unit fairly quickly for the Heroic Epic, this is a cheesy quick way to do it. The drawback is that you would have to be careful to not waste the free win/s on early easy battles (defending against wolves for example). This might mean you'd have to sacrifice some early scouting or at least limit it.

This trick, of course, does not apply to Monarch or any higher difficulties because there are no longer any free wins given to the player.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

It's hard to get any XP on high levels when barb spawns are completely locked out by warriors .

 

[cabert]

This will probably be considered an exploit by most because it takes advantage of a game mechanic the player is not "meant" to know about.

I'm going to mention it here because I don't think I've seen it mentioned on the forums by anyone other than myself, let alone advocated by other players.

On Prince and lower difficulties you are given what are called "barb free wins". At Prince you get 1, and for every step in difficulty lower you get 1 more free win. Let's say this is the starting value of the barb_free_win counter. Whenever you win a battle (whether attacking or defending) with a barbarian or animal, the counter reduces by 1 until it reaches 0.

The hidden mechanic here is that until that counter reaches 0 combat resolution is being fudged. No matter what defensive bonuses or promotions or unit types are involved, the barbarian or animal's odds for each combat rounds are reduced to no more than 10% and hence your own odds for each round to no less than 90%. This means if you use your free wins for incredibly difficult battles, you can rack up the maximum amount of xp (10 for barbs) from a single battle for as many units as you have barb free wins. For example, launch your unpromoted warrior at a barb axeman standing on a forest. The game will report your winning odds as very bad but in fact your odds are really good (probably around at least 95% to 99%).

Since you usually want to obtain a 10XP unit fairly quickly for the Heroic Epic, this is a cheesy quick way to do it. The drawback is that you would have to be careful to not waste the free win/s on early easy battles (defending against wolves for example). This might mean you'd have to sacrifice some early scouting or at least limit it.

This trick, of course, does not apply to Monarch or any higher difficulties because there are no longer any free wins given to the player.

I already mentionned this trick a few years ago (I'm getting old!) because the first time I played FfH I killed orthus (uberaxeman) with some miserable unit who had less than 1% odds. In FfH XPs for barbs are limited to 100, and I got something like 70 for just this one fight .

In unmodded cIV, the use can be to get your initial warrior to woodsman 3 in just 2 fights, but the lost exploration is too much for me.

 

[PieceOfMind]

Ha, so in FFH it's even more ridiculous. Did they remove the barb free wins then? I must never have seen your post, cabert.

There might be strategies for increasing early scouting. For example, it may be enough to settle for a warrior as first scout and hope to find a wooded bear to attack. Also, before a short time no animals will appear so you can use that brief time to scout the nearby area (along a river maybe) first.

I'd never lower scouting efforts if huts were turned on though.

It would be possible to take advantage of the barb free wins if your unit was injured too, probably resulting in more xp. However to get a unit injured so early probably requires a battle with an AI (since the barb free wins usually leave your unit uninjured). Also, the more injured your unit becomes the less likely you are to win the barb free battle. The odds of losing could rise above 10% fairly easily.

 

[cabert]

I didn't post specifically about the orthus thing, but I checked the free barb thing, and posted about it in a thread about what changes with difficulty levels.

It was not even close to a strategy to milk the xps from it, so nothing lost really.