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Input wanted: The Philippines for VP

Discussion in 'Community Patch Project' started by pineappledan, Nov 17, 2019.

  1. pineappledan

    pineappledan Deity

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    Hey all. @TPangolin and I have been discussing how to add Colonialist Legacies' Philippines civ to VP, and I thought I would post here to gather some feedback and design input from people.

    The goal with these VP compatibilities is to fix obvious incompatibilities when moving things from vanilla civ, but also to tweak the civ in a way that brings it up to the power of other CBP civs while keeping fidelity with the original modder's intent, and being respectful to the culture depicted.

    With that out of the way, here is the Philippines civ as it exists in vanilla civ 5.

    And here is what has been discussed/proposed so far:

    The Phillipines - led by Jose Rizal


    UA - Pearl of the Orient
    Your :trade: Trade Routes' Origin City gains 25% of the the Target City’s specific :c5production:Production Progress each turn. :trade:Trade Routes to other Civilizations grant you Open Borders. Units generate :c5culture: Culture in Foreign lands.


    UU - Katipunero (replaces Fusilier):
    Available at Rifling
    625 :c5production: Production cost

    38 :c5strength: CS
    2 :c5moves: Movement
    "Field Works"
    "Secret Society" (Unit is Invisible unless revealed by adjacent enemy units or cities and Ignores Borders)
    "Katipunan" (+25% :c5strength:CS vs units and cities following a different Ideology)​


    UB - Coral Church (replaces Harbor):
    available at Compass
    Can be built anywhere
    350 :c5production: Production Cost

    +2 :c5faith: Faith and +1 :c5gold: Gold
    +5% :c5food:Food
    +1 :c5food: Food to Coast and Ocean
    +1 :c5production: Production to Sea Resources
    +200 City HP
    +10% :c5war: Military Supply Cap from :c5citizen: Population
    20% of the cost of :c5faith:Faith purchases in the city are converted to :c5food: Food and :tourism: Tourism
    when a :trade: Sea Trade Route originating here and targeting another Civ is completed, receive a :tourism: Tourism boost with the civ based on your recent :c5culture: Culture output
    :trade: Sea Trade Routes gain +50% Range and +2 :c5gold: Gold
    Spoiler 4UC Compatibility :

    upload_2019-11-17_18-35-50.png
    UU - Balangay

    Available at Pottery
    :c5production:Production cost scales
    Stops :c5food:Growth in city while under construction
    Requires minimum of 4 :c5citizen:Population in City
    Reduces :c5citizen:Population of City by 1 on construction

    7:c5strength: initial CS
    :c5strength:CS increases by 7:c5strength:CS each era
    4:c5moves:Moves
    Can enter Deep Ocean
    While adjacent to land, can perform a 1-time Barangay action, spawning a Settler/Pioneer/Colonist on a randomly selected adjacent land tile. The Balangay is not expended.​
    upload_2019-11-17_16-53-45.png
    UU - Lantaka (Cannon)
    Available at Gunpowder
    325:c5production: (7.5% cheaper)
    16:c5strength:CS, 31:c5rangedstrength:RCS
    "Siege inaccuracy"
    "Cover I"
    "bonus vs cities" (100)
    "Moves at Half Speed in Enemy Territory"
    "Swivel Gun" When embarked beneath a Naval Unit, provides +50% attack​
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2019
    JamesNinelives, Hinin, Eboq and 2 others like this.
  2. pineappledan

    pineappledan Deity

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    notes:
    UA:
    Culture from foreign units
    • How the culture from foreign units works has yet to be determined. The vanilla version only grants :c5culture: culture for units that are not at war and have open borders (ie. missionaries, envoys, and trade units do not grant culture).
    • Currently set at 2:c5culture: culture per unit, scaling with Era. Units are counted at the beginning of each turn (ie. units are counted once per turn, as opposed to each time they move)
    • I am considering opening this up to include all foreign units, including barbarians and civs you are at war with. Easier to describe, and not powerful enough that you could abide an invading force camped around your cities. This reflects that the Philippine's melting pot of cultures hasn't always been peaceful or smooth.
    Cargo ships and stuff
    • TPangolin and I went back and forth over who should get bonuses for movement on TRs, under what conditions, etc. etc. We still haven't settled on anything, but I think we both agree that if a movement bonus for TRs were to be implemented, we would want it to be shared with other civs somehow.
    • We also talked about giving Philippines some mechanic that increases its unit trade cap, but couldn't agree on a specific mechanic
      • 1 free TR for every unique landmass you settle (hard to calculate and really variable for archipelago maps)
      • 1 free TR for every X CS allies. (What happens when your alliance decays and you have maxed your TRs? Do we want Phillipines to be a focused diplo civ?)
      • A free TR is sent to any foreign city that targets a city with a Coral Church (that could potentially mean doubling your TRs)
      • 1 free TR for every X cities you control. (Kinda lazy, but it would get the job done.)
    Katipunero:
    • the UU is completely unchanged from the original civ right now. I think that's probably okay
    • I don't really understand how the katipunan promotion is applied right now? Adopting an ideology puts a dummy building in all your cities, and it appears that building will give any UNITCOMBAT_GUN unit trained in that city the katipunero promotion. So I need to test this civ and see if a WWI rifleman gets the promotion too.
    Coral Church:
    • In keeping with other VP unique buildings, the coral church can be constructed in all cities, including non-coastal ones
    • I added +5%:c5food: base food, so each additional sea resource multiplies that initial bonus
    Balangay
    • Not quite sure if it is possible to scale the unit correctly in the current system. I'm not sure how the cost scaling is applied, if it is tied to the found action, the settler unit class, or what. The rest should be doable though
    • Should be an interesting hybrid unit. Functionally a naval settler unit that can island hop like Polynesia and defend itself early on. The era scaling keeps the unit as a relevant military threat until Renaissance. After that, the unit can at least function as a settler that can defend itself
    • The unit model was imported from civ 4 by BouncyMischa, and used in LastSword's Brunei civ, but I didn't much care for his icon, so I made my own. If someone would like to take a swing at an icon for the Balangay, I'd be happy to have the help.
    Lantaka
    • This last military unit slot is the big question mark. TPangolin and I can't decide on what should go here. The low-hanging fruit is a lantaka because the unit icon and a suitable unit model already exist.
    • I was considering a second boat UU here, but if the Balangay can stay relevant for several eras then maybe that's good enough. The unit's embarked ability also makes it a hybrid land/sea unit.
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2019
    JamesNinelives likes this.
  3. LifeOfBrian

    LifeOfBrian Warlord

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    I think the UA is quite weak compared to the vast majority of VP civs. Early on in the game I have little need for open borders, so having them before Civil services represents only a very small advantage. Extra movement on Sea routes represents only a very niche benefit. As for culture from foreign units, that benefit is very unpredictable and hard to base your gameplan upon. Plus in my VP games I usually get a very small number of foreign units in my territory even with open borders, so I don't think the bonus would be anything special until later in the game.

    Katipunero comes very late and isn't particularly interesting and becomes strong only upon Ideologies. Plus 1 movement is not as useful on home soil compared to in enemy territory (i.e. Musketeers).

    Faith from Coral Church isn't that useful at that time of the game, especially only +2 faith. I'd replace it or increase the faith significantly. Does the 5% increase appear with each sea resource or each different sea resource?

    Does Balangay keep the strength scaling upon upgrade? Is the settler function also kept on upgrade? When does Balangay become obsolete? Can you "game it" so that you build one before the Pioneer tech for cheap and then later use it for a Pioneer?

    Lantaka is also a late UU and its main difference is for naval attacks, for which the Phillipines don't seem particularly better equiped than an average civ. If Lantaka were to remain, I'd replace Katipunero with a Renaissance unique naval unit.

    All in all, the bonuses mostly come online late(r) in the game and aren't that strong or synergetic. Most of your other work (4UC etc.) is really good, but unfortunately I don't find this particular modmod/civ appealing.
     
  4. pineappledan

    pineappledan Deity

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    One decent source of early game culture is barbarians. trade units also count.
    Did you see my comment about raising the TR cap via some mechanic? Maybe you have an idea on that?
    That +1 move in friendly is yet more reason I see the civ being one that tries to coax another civ into a war on their own turf. I agree, it's not an incredibly powerful UU, but I don't necessarily think it should be, given the civ isn't really a domination civ.
    The 2 faith is definitely there only for flavor. It's a church. In fact the UA gives incentive NOT to found, since missionaries in your territory would give you culture
    The 5% food is for each resource, 2 fish count as 2 resources.
    No, unit strength scaling is tied to the unit. If you upgrade a Balangay to a caravel it will lose CS scaling and its unique unit action. Balangay does not obsolete, but it can upgrade into a caravel.
    Yes you can game it.
    Philippines has an ancient, medieval, renaissance, and an industrial unique component. I'm rather elated with the spread of technologies.
    If you have some insight to make the units i've proposed work by strengthening their proposals then that would certainly make my life easier. Any Filipino watercraft is going to be medieval or earlier, and almost all of them are outriggers, for which there is currently no model in civ 5, meaning I would have to learn to make custom unit models in blender :(
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2019
  5. LifeOfBrian

    LifeOfBrian Warlord

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    Thanks for the reply.

    Hmm, the thing is that with barbarians in your territories you're usually trying to get rid of them ASAP as to not lose yields, TRs etc., so bonus from that would be very small, especially compared to the loss of yields from their attacking your cities. So I'd be much more interested in increasing the TR cap, that would make it extremely flexible in how to approach the game. If it's too hard to balance or code otherwise, I'd go with 1 or 2 extra TR with each era (or only certain era), kind of like Poland's UA. Not very creative, but it gets the job done. Like you mentioned before, it gets hard to balance around other triggers (even through the number of owned cities might be difficult, because you might lose a city, you might expand tremendously and then you need to introduce a cap on the UA etc.).

    You say the civ isn't really a domination civ. What kind of civ is it? How do you imagine it being played, what are some main playstyles behind it, the synergy, flexibilty? Because with most VP civs I can see a "theme" or an overall strategy (or a few main ones) and the Phillipines should be the same. For example if the UA benefits from the number of foreign units in its territory, then you could perhaps tweak the components so that it would increase the amount&time of units in territory, for example by removing the foreign missionary decay, by giving foreign friendly units +5hp heal per turn, by giving the UB a border growth bonus (more territory, more chance of a unit being in your territory). You could go the India route of giving a UA advantage that also is (potentially) a disadvantage, for example setting up a mechanic that opens your borders to the AI if they have an embassy in your capital etc. You could also tweak the Coral Church to spawn (at least) one sea resource near the city upon construction.

    Balangay being gamey makes it very human friendly which might be a problem balance-wise? But yes, very interesting concept that will be very friendly on ocean/island-heavy maps.

    I'll think about them, I understand the limits/problems with having to create new models.

    All in all it's great that you'll be offering a new civ to the Community! I'll think about it more (have to do some research on the Phillipines :)) and will post in the future.
     
    JamesNinelives and Omen of Peace like this.
  6. TPangolin

    TPangolin Just the worst person

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    I apologise in advance for my lack of knowledge surrounding VP mechanics and playstyles. In any case though, I thought I'd provide some of my thoughts regarding the potential direction that the Philippines could take as a civ.

    The underpinning thematic of the civ is that of a national identity borne from a multicultural melting pot. As it stands I believe the concept of encouraging foreign movement within your borders is a rather unique one, and I feel like to get the greatest usage out of such an ability, that one should be openly encouraged to forward-settle their opponents, to establish diplomatic and trade relationships. For what it's worth, all units that are diplomatically friendly would gain the movement bonus, which would serve (hopefully) to further encourage movement to your borders. I do think that there needs to be a greater incentive for encouraging such a playstyle.

    The first initial draft of the Civ back when I theorised it, was the ability to construct the unique components of other Civ you've developed diplo relations with. Whilst I'm not certain that this should make a come-back, I think that there could be potential merit in the concept of 'tracing' units/institutions from other cultures.

    I am also happy to redesign the Katipunero, and Coral Church attributes as they're not entirely synergistic.

    With all that being said, here are a few thoughts for a potential redesign:

    Unique Ability: Pearl of the Orient
    Naval Trade Routes grant Open Borders, and Cities will passively gain Production towards foreign Units on or adjacent to their borders. Gain additional Culture from Naval Trade Routes for every Social Policy the other Civ has adopted that you have not.

    UU:
    Katipunero
    Replaces the Rifleman.
    Weaker, but gains invisibility unless adjacent to an enemy unit or City.
    +25% Combat Strength against Civs with different Ideologies.

    UB:
    Coral Church
    Replaces Harbour.
    +x% Increased Trade Route range, and +1 Faith on every Sea Resource for every Naval Trade Route sent to or from this City.
    Reduced Production cost for Buildings in this City, if they are present in other Cities connected via Naval Trade Route.

    UU2:
    Balangay
    Unchanged from as suggested in the OP

    UU3:
    Lantaka
    Replaces the Cannon.
    When on the same tile as a Naval Unit, Cargo Ships within 3 tiles cannot be plundered.
    When on the same tile as a Trade Route, provides additional movement to all Friendly civs along the Trade Route.​

    All in all the intention with the ideas within this redesign is to provide an incentive to get close to your opponents, as well as providing defensive capabilities in the case of hostility.

    Also of note - Katipuneros being invisible is representative of them being a revolutionary secret society.

    I haven't really considered balance in the design as of yet, mainly due to an attempt to establish some core thematics and ideas.
     
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  7. pineappledan

    pineappledan Deity

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    Thanks for weighing in, @TPangolin. For ease of understanding, anything that is underlined in a unit/building description is different from the base building. It helps contextualize what a normal harbor does vs what the Coral church does in addition to that.

    That's a good question that TPang is definitely more equipped to answer. Regarding a specific victory type I would see the civ most geared towards, I kinda see the civ being a cultural civ with a diplo victory as a secondary possibility. If we add extra TRs via some mechanic that suits both of those playstyles well. The free and earlier open borders adds that % tourism bonus earlier than other civs, and their :c5culture:culture from other civs' units in their territory adds an extra source of cultural defense.
    That's so easy and useful it might actually work. The main drawback is that Venice does the exact thing by unlocking TRs by simply researching techs.

    what about free TR slots on completion of policy branches though? That’s 3 free ones in a normal game, maybe we could add a 4th with opening an ideology? That combines better with the free culture from foreign units too
    The :c5culture: from foreign units in your borders is the thing I'm most interested in preserving from the original design. I only want to make it scale on era and open it up to more possible units, since the original design was very restrictive. The original civ limited culture only to civs that have open borders with you, so you didn't get any culture until you had unlocked open borders, and units that ignored borders (trade units and missionaries) didn't give you anything. If you give a small amount of :c5culture: each turn for literally any unowned unit inside your borders, you could get a small trickle of culture from barbarians and trade routes to make this part of the UA relevant even in the ultra-early game, but not so good that you would not actively fight off barbarians near your cities.

    VP gives :c5culture: culture on TRs as a base ability in the manner you describe. My compatibility for your Tlingit civ increases the amount of :c5science:/:c5culture: you get from international TRs by a % amount.
    I think this would be a big improvement over the current Kaputinero design. The secret society angle is a great fit.
    The computations for these abilities would be very intense, and could noticeably slow down turns.

    5 to 15%:c5food:food in every city is very powerful; if this building is buildable in all cities, I think it's a pretty good one.
    Some other ideas:
    - Can be bought with :c5faith:Faith
    -Could add some more HP to the city (base harbours already add some) contributing to city defense. If the civ gets :c5culture: for foreign units, one way of using that is to goad other civs into attacking you. - Their UB giving you big meaty cities could be a way of slowing down enemy civs while still reaping some culture off them.
    - Could give 15% of the :c5faith:Faith cost of Faith purchases as :tourism:Tourism and :c5food:Food in the city, increasing that Cultural victory leaning.
    - the civopedia text mentions education, so maybe a bit of science?
    We Civ 6 now. The cargo ship pillage immunity seems fitting enough, if a bit computationally intense.
    I kinda like my idea with adding a combat bonus to a stacked military unit though.... What if it gave +100% vs cities to a stacked naval unit? You can essentially convert them into a naval siege unit.

    FWIW I think those bonuses get a bit unwieldly. A combat bonus of some sort to a stacked unit fits the unit well thematically and isn’t too hard to describe or have the AI use

    Still, hard to think of what carrots you can give to other civs to ensure you have a constant supply of units entering your territory.
    • There's the obvious one of positioning and gold investment, so that your civ is attractive for foreign :trade:TRs.
    • You can give them late :c5faith:faith bonuses and reductions to :c5unhappy:unhappiness from religious unrest in your cities, so that you encourage more missionaries to come into your empire.
    • You can poke civs into invading you, and if you are confident in being able to hold them off, you could get tons of free :c5culture:culture by tying down their army in your land.
    Other than that, I can't think of what sort of carrot you could give the AI that they would be incentivized to enter foreign territory willy-nilly. I think it's okay though, as long as the civ has other parts of their UA that are more dependable.
    You have to be careful about who you give open borders to in VP though, because Morocco can pillage TRs without declaring war. This means that, while Open borders are beneficial to the Philippines, they need to be able to shut their borders down if a civ can use it against them. I think that means either DoFs or Embassies are the best bet. DoFs will be better for the AI, because if a AI Phillipines becomes friends with Morocco, and then Morocco proceeds to pillage all the Filipino TRs, then that negatively affects opinion, and Phillipines will revoke friendship.

    Pouakai's Garamantes civ already does the bonus movement on TRs with your empire thing. Maybe we should shelf that?

    There's other things which would take some rooting around in the DLL to accomplish, but are also possible:
    TRs could give vision.
    TRs could move at double speed.

    UA: Pearl of the Orient
    Declarations of Friendship also grant Open Borders. Foreign units within your borders provide :c5culture:Culture. When you complete a Policy Tree, Gain an extra :trade:Trade Route.
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2019
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  8. andersw

    andersw King

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    As modmod or as standard VP?
     
  9. pineappledan

    pineappledan Deity

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  10. Guynemer

    Guynemer Prince

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    Initial impressions: the UA feels very niche and overly reliant on the AI in regards to culture; opening it up to other units would be welcome. Would it be possible to add a complementary bonus to your own units being present inside the territory of other civs? Science or gold, maybe; tourism feels like it would pigeonhole them too much into CV. The movement along trade routes is interesting, but also feels underpowered. Extra TRs would make it better (maybe a TR for every city with a WW? every religious milestone?), and maybe giving the movement bonus on land routes too.

    The unique fusilier is good; extra movement is always welcome, and that combat bonus is powerful. I assume those promotions stay on promotion?

    I like the unique harbor. That extra food could get crazy in resource-heavy coastal cities.

    For me, the true standouts are the 3/4 stuff: the Balangay is very unique. Should be able to hold its own in the early ages, plus the settler--terrific. The unique cannon is an interesting concept, a pseudo GA that you can hard build, and also do sieges with.

    The one thing I wonder about is that it doesn't really seem coherent; no single aspect really feeds in to anything else, except arguably the Balangay getting to choice settling spots early thanks to TRs (or the cannon getting to your fleet). Maybe the fusiliers, due to the increased culture from units in your territory getting you to ideology faster? I feel like I'm reaching. Each single unique aspect is quite powerful in and of itself, other than the original proposed UA.
     
  11. pineappledan

    pineappledan Deity

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    Pearl of the Orient:
    Declarations of Friendship also grant Open Borders. When at peace, foreign units in your territory and your units in foreign territory grant :c5culture:Culture. When you complete a Policy Tree, Gain an extra :trade:Trade Route.


    UU - Katipunero (replaces Fusilier):
    Available at Rifling
    625 :c5production: Production cost

    38 :c5strength: CS
    2 :c5moves: Movement
    "Field Works"
    "Secret Society" (Unit is invisible until revealed by an adjacent unit or city.)
    "Katipunan" (+25% :c5strength:CS vs units following a different ideology)


    UB - Coral Church (replaces Harbor):
    available at Compass
    Can be built anywhere
    350 :c5production: Production Cost

    +2 :c5faith: Faith and +1 :c5gold: Gold
    +5% :c5food:Food
    +1 :c5food: Food to Coast and Ocean
    +1 :c5production: Production to Sea Resources
    +200 City HP
    +10% :c5war: Military Supply Cap from :c5citizen: Population
    when a :trade: Sea Trade Route originating here and targeting another Civ is completed, receive a :tourism: Tourism boost with the civ based on your recent :c5culture: Culture output
    :trade: Sea Trade Routes gain +50% Range and +2 :c5gold: Gold
    Gain 10% of the Cost of any :c5faith: Faith Purchase as :c5food:Food and :tourism:Tourism in this City.

    Enhanced synergies:
    • Katipunero can sit in foreign territory undetected, collecting culture
    • Coral church gets 5%:c5food: food as a base, but isn't dependent on coast for its boosts anymore (can be built anywhere, and the civ doesn't otherwise have a massive benefit for that much growth)
    • :tourism:Tourism instant boost, enhanced by the civ's natural bonuses towards Open Borders and :trade:Trade Route connections to other civs
    • Civ only gets bonuses from friendly civs, emphasizing the peaceful play aspect to the civ, and doing away with the most obvious way to farm :c5culture:culture: baiting a weaker civ into war.
    • The ability to generate :c5culture:culture by stationing units in foreign lands means you control more of your own UA's power. You will be pressured to station units outside of useful, defensive positions, making a surprise DoW from a neighbour risky.
    Thoughts?
     
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  12. Guynemer

    Guynemer Prince

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    Definitely more synergy. One thing about the UA as currently phrased: does "when at peace" mean at peace with ALL civs, or only at peace with the civ that has units in your territory/having units in other civ's territory? The secret society promotion is interesting, but it doesn't really have all that much synergy with the UA if you have to be at peace with the civ where your units are stationed; if you are at peace, why the need for them to be hidden?

    The new coral church is better in some respects (less dependant on resources, more dependent on player choice), but it definitely gives the civ a hard slant to CV.
     
  13. pineappledan

    pineappledan Deity

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    OP updated with the latest iteration of the Philippines design.

    the UA has been heavily reworked to put more control strictly in the player's hands. You can send trade routes to a civ to force open their borders, then send your units to their land to gain culture.

    The production stealing includes the production of wonders, processes, and unique buildings/units.
    • If you have a TR with a Roman city and the Roman city builds 4 Legionnaires, a legionnaire will be constructed in your origin city.
      • Production towards units/buildings is specific to the unit/building type, not the unit/building class, so production towards a Roman legionnaire in a target city will not contribute production towards a swordsman being built in your origin city
    • If you have 4 TRs with 4 different Roman cities and those 4 roman cities each build a Colosseum, then your origin will get a Colosseum (replacing an existing Arena, if present).
    • Processes worked by target cities will simply give 1/4 the yields instantly in your origin city.
    • Projects behave the same as units/buildings
    • You can target multiple civs' cities with TRs all from the same origin city, and if they are all racing you to the same wonder, their production towards that wonder stacks additively with your own production.
      • This is very hard to pull off unless you also have vision via spies/diplomats in those cities, but can serve as a potent method of winning crucial wonder races.
    • This bonus also works for internal TRs, allowing you to send many internal TRs to a single, high production city in your empire, allowing all your smaller cities to benefit from the concentration of :c5production: in that city. This can serve as a very effective method of coordinating infrastructure works in your empire, but is limited by your number of TRs.
    Overall, the special ability's full capabilities will require some difficult choices by the player:
    • To gain the unique infrastructure and unit bonuses from another civ, you will have to overinvest in :trade:TRs to that civ, sending :trade:TRs to less optimal cities and foregoing trade bonuses with other civilizations
    • The full potential of you :c5production:unique production siphoning is wasted on buildings you have already created in that city, and uniques that will remain at 25-75% complete, but never finished (can never steal a Unique national wonder for this reason)
    • You cannot use the special ability to complete illegal buildings and units. ie, building a lighthouse/trireme in the target city won't contribute to anything if the origin city is not coastal.
    • Your ability to steal uniques is limited greatly by trade unit range and the total number of :trade:TRs on empire. It will be effectively impossible to grab a unique building until you have unlocked 4 Trade slots.
    • By focusing on internal trade, you are giving up a lot of :c5culture: culture generation potential with foreign units, and the trade route :tourism:tourism modifier that your forced Open Borders ability effectively doubles.
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2019
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  14. Guynemer

    Guynemer Prince

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    Now THAT is a truly unique UA! If I understand correctly, the production bonus triggers when the target city is on its way to producing something, and it doesn't necessarily have to complete it? Otherwise, I'm not sure how that applies to getting a bonus to wonders.
     
  15. pineappledan

    pineappledan Deity

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    The bonus is applied every turn, not when the unit/building is completed. Otherwise processes wouldn't do anything because they never finish.

    So, if your city and a target city are both trying to complete Hanging Gardens, 25% of their :c5production:production also contributes towards your own progress
     
  16. Guynemer

    Guynemer Prince

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    oh, duh. Yeah, that makes sense, I was being a dumb-dumb. I'd be interested in giving this a spin.
     
  17. LifeOfBrian

    LifeOfBrian Warlord

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    Very interesting UA, I'm already thinking of various ways of exploiting/maximizing it :D
     
  18. HeathcliffWarriors

    HeathcliffWarriors Prince

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    This wording is unclear, when I first read it I understood it to mean, that, for instance, if the target city was constructing a Granary, as long as the trade route persisted and the production choice was a Granary, the origin city would have a +25% Prod modifier towards building a Granary.

    But reading the comments it seems to be in instant yield form, which is more useful. :)

    Still, maybe worth clarifying.
     
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  19. pineappledan

    pineappledan Deity

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    Yeah, they full on get 1 hammer for every 4 hammers towards whatever the target city builds every turn, but it’s hard to communicate that both succinctly, and without implying that the Philippines is STEALING production

    UA - Pearl of the Orient
    The Origin city of you :trade: Trade Routes gain 25% of the the Target City’s :c5production:Production Progress each turn. :trade:Trade Routes to other Civilizations grant you Open Borders. Units generate :c5culture: Culture in Foreign lands.

    better?
     
  20. HeathcliffWarriors

    HeathcliffWarriors Prince

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    I can appreciate the difficulty :)

    This wording is a bit more clear (typos aside), but it doesn't communicate what the Production is contributed towards; I could see someone getting confused and thinking 1/4 of the target city's Hammers towards a Granary would be put towards the Library they're currently building.
     

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