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Input wanted: The Philippines for VP

Discussion in 'Community Patch Project' started by pineappledan, Nov 17, 2019.

  1. LifeOfBrian

    LifeOfBrian Warlord

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    I'd add to the UA to clarify whether culture bonuses apply to city states, also how much culture (scaling with Era) they yield and that it doesn't apply in enemy lands.
     
  2. pineappledan

    pineappledan Deity

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    Literally no VP UA descriptions give the precise amount of culture, and very few actually say if they scale or not and by how much. It spills over into the 4th line if I take your suggestions, and at that point, the length becomes as much of a hindrance to clarity as the word choice.

    re: if city states count, we haven't decided yet, but it would probably be broken if they did. a city state has no way to force you out.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2019
  3. azum4roll

    azum4roll Prince

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    It's technically possible to build a UNW if target civ tries to build it in multiple cities without finishing.

    Can you build a wonder without having enough policies?
     
  4. pineappledan

    pineappledan Deity

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    Possible if human players were forcing it to happen I suppose. No human or AI is dumb enough to build the same building to near-completion >4 times in >4 different cities, in precisely the cities that Phillipines is targeting with TRs.
    If 5+ cities that you have TRs with, all coming from the same city, were all neck-and-neck in the race, I suppose you would technically be able to finish a wonder without ever putting any hammers into it. Thus, you would be able to complete a wonder without satisfying the minimum policy requirement. I believe the intention is for the UA to ignore tech and policy requirements for the production bonus, and only to consider city placement restrictions. Thus, you should be able to build observatories via TRs with Rationalism civs without adopting Rationalism yourself. @HungryForFood and @TPangolin can perhaps chime in.
     
  5. azum4roll

    azum4roll Prince

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    If you only consider city placement restrictions, won't it be technically possible (well, with human players deliberately triggering) to get a reformation building/St. Basil/Borobudur without having a religion as well?

    There are also Ideology wonders/NW/Corporation buildings to consider.
     
  6. TPangolin

    TPangolin Just the worst person

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    I personally have no issues with illegal buildings being built (other than regarding terrain restrictions). I think it would be a neat way to siphon institutions from others that have gone down alternative paths. That being said, I'm not too familiar with how broken this could be regarding new mechanics I'm not familiar with.
     
  7. Blue Ghost

    Blue Ghost King

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    Building unique units/buildings with that UA sounds cool in theory, but it's hard for me to envision it happening in practice. You have to have four trade routes from a single city to four separate cities in another civ, for the entire duration of the time it takes that civ to build their unique unit/building in all four of those cities. I'd be amazed if you managed to actually pull that off.
     
  8. Viralvoid

    Viralvoid Warlord

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    Hello, Thank you and I really appreciate this. I just have a few comments and suggestions regarding in this Philippines modmod, my new bias civ.
    The UA is very interesting, and I would love to try it.
    Regarding to its unique components, I would like to honestly say that I don't feel the Filipino culture in "Coral Churches" because I personally don't know what it is, but FLAVOR wise, it reflects the Philippines as a religious country on an archipelago. So, I don't have a problem with it.
    ---Since, units from other civ no longer benefits Philippines, the not-to-found a religion strategy is no longer applicable game-wise (but I want to push Philippines as a religious civ, but not as a founder for historical reasons.
    ---Philippines is a very religious country, so I think, following/adopting a new religion could start a WLTKD or other events on a city with Coral Church (reflects "Fiesta" occasions, a religious event that literally means party in Spanish, Fiesta is very popular in the Philippines, and it happens yearly on different churches, so churches will have different patron saints etc)

    For 4UC
    Balangay is very amazing, and it reflects ancient seafaring Filipinos, and it is historically accurate.
    Lantaka is good for a component, but I don't think it is good in flavor because first, it is not a famous Filipino craftsmanship, and it is for aggressive civs (you mentioned earlier that Philippines is a peaceful civ).

    My other suggestion (but I don't think this is possible)

    1. Bahay Kubo (Nipa Huts) or Barangays - can only be built on flatland with nearby water. This is a terrain-dependent UI that is strong early in the game, but becomes weaker and less competitive, until it becomes obselete. It is almost the same as normal farms. Can be built on forests, jungles and marshes.

    Terrain-Dependent Characteristics:
    ----- +1 food and +1 culture
    ----- +2 food if built on freshwater
    ----- +1 gold on every adjacent coastlands
    ----- +1 production for every adjacent Bahay Kubo or if near the city

    Technology:
    Limited bonuses from technologies, will become obselete on Agribusiness

    Rationale and Historical basis:
    Bahay Kubo (Nipa Huts) are houses made from bamboos, nipa, anahaw and other plant materials. These are small villages/settlements of indigenous Filipinos (some still exists during the Spanish era,or until today)

    First, this is multicultural and reflects lots of ethnical cultures in the Philippines, we have our Tagalogs ("taga ilog" which means those who live on the riverside), Kapampangan, (Pampang means bay/coast), Ilokano (Lukong which means flatland, or lo'ok which means bay/coast), and Maranaos which literally means people of the lake.
    Second, the +1 production for every adjacent bahay kubo reflects "Bayanihan Spirit" (Bayan means nation, city, town, or community) a famous Filipino trait/custom that literally means "being on a bayan", a feeling of helping each other as a community.
    Third, at Fertilizer technology, is it possible to automatically destroy all Bahay Kubo, and provides instant yield food and culture on the nearest city or at the capital (as it reflects Filipinos from provinces moving on cities, especially in Manila, which causes overpopulation and unhappiness) then replace it with farms?.

    2. La Solidaridad - Available at Printing Press
    Replaces Writer's Guild - this is a group of Filipino writers against Spain, Jose Rizal is a member of this organization
    Provides a free GWriter and instant culture, and provides Great Writer Points everytime a unit is killed/destroyed, (works 3 times).
    Provides instant science when a great writer is expended
    Gain erudite promotions on units built in the city (Erudite, gain exp faster and provides science when a unit killed an enemy unit)
     
  9. HeathcliffWarriors

    HeathcliffWarriors King

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    Rome already has a much stronger UA involving UNWs and such. Perhaps with the exception of religious/ideology NWs (and even then, it's extremely unlikely) I don't see the issue, personally.
     
  10. pineappledan

    pineappledan Deity

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    the point is to make it very hard to almost impossible, yes. A fun trick, but hard enough to happen maybe only once per game, if that.

    Rome’s unique stealing is somewhat balanced by the cities always being conquered, 3rd-string cities, but I’m guessing the Filipinos would get them in the capital most often, so it has to be much harder to do.
    Each civ has an obsoleting military unit slot and a non-obsoleting civilian slot. An appropriate unit model and icons existed for the lantaka, requiring only minimal retexturing. I also wanted the slot to go to something pre-colonial, since the Katipunero is taking the other military slot.
    If you can find me an appropriate tile model then I would consider it. The limiter is always art assets, since I don't have those skills.
    A bonus on kills? Didn't you just say that a military-focus wasn't befitting the Philippines? That would also combine with the Coral church to make both civilian buildings from the Spanish Colonial period, and I would prefer to avoid that.

    Both of your suggestions would probably take the Balangay's slot, especially the Bahay Kubo (it would be weird to have both Balangays and Barangays in the game :p)
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2019
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  11. Viralvoid

    Viralvoid Warlord

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    I see, I thought that Balangay and Lantaka are both UU.
    For the Barangay suggestion, I think that we can use Kampong's artwork, I really wanted to help in the artworks but I'm failing in medschool, so I have to focus.

    Anyway, regarding to the Civ Design, I realized that the Philippines has a potentially powerful religious game, especially when he founds a religion. Sending trade routes provides forced open borders, and that helps in spreading religion via missionaries without worrying about attrition, which will also provides culture because they were in the foreign land. I just hope that we can't just faith buy missionaries then station them on foreign lands for culture.

    My other suggestion for Coral Church is: the availability at Theology because they were technically churches, and can be bought with faith. This will help this Civ to give a more religious flavor even though it was not originally intended.
     
  12. pineappledan

    pineappledan Deity

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    Balangay doesn't obsolete, and they carry a settler, so I'm considering them a civilian slot.

    Maybe it should just be military units? Then you have to balance the unit maintenance and unit :c5war:military supply against your :c5culture:culture gain. Using civilian units means you can pretty much convert :c5gold:gold into :c5culture:culture, and then just expend/delete them if you are short on cash.

    There's the Kampong Ayer from Brunei, maybe that's appropriate. Just for the art assets, not what it actually does.

    Would people rather a Barangay/Bahay Kubo coastal village improvement over the Balangay?

    my personal vote is to stick with the balangay, assuming I can get it working. I like the unit model and the icon I made, and I’ve already put a bit of time into it at this point
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2019
  13. Guynemer

    Guynemer Prince

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    I kinda like the current Barangay, feels more unique. That Kampong Ayer is neat, with the bonus gold from adjacent sea routes, but I like uniques to really stand out.
     
  14. pineappledan

    pineappledan Deity

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    My other idea for the balangay was this:
    Stagnates production growth. Can be expended in or adjacent to one of your cities for a large amount of :c5food: and a small amount of :c5production::c5culture:, scaling with era.

    essentially a second set of ersatz internal TRs that you control directly to transfer resources between cities.
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2019
  15. Guynemer

    Guynemer Prince

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    Stagnates production, or growth?
     
  16. pineappledan

    pineappledan Deity

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    growth. fixed. It would certainly make the Barangay fit more neatly into being a definite civilian unit but, as TPang an others have pointed, it would not really do anything interesting, since it's basically an internal TR at that point, and settling new cities is more in-line with the real history of the Balangay. Furthermore, keeping it as the original proposal gives Philippines a way to escape/flourish in their own TSL instead of being trapped on a small island chain they can't leave.
     
  17. Guynemer

    Guynemer Prince

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    My preference would absolutely be for the original proposal, FWIW.
     
  18. Viralvoid

    Viralvoid Warlord

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    I think that the original design for Balangay is better and more accurate. Giving Balangays the ability to also cross other civs' tile without open borders could provide them new purpose when exploring like providing early culture even without trade routes.

    My problem with Balangay is that, I'm only going to build them 6 to 8 times, depending how many cities I want to found. Technically, Balangay obseletes at the later phase of the game. It's like a Polynesian settler with a trireme escort, but happens earlier. Is the +7 CS on era advance retained after upgrading this unit into a caravel?
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2019
  19. pineappledan

    pineappledan Deity

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    It is not. UnitCombatEra scaling is specific to the unit in question. At 7 per era, however, you have a military naval melee unit a full era before anyone else does (albeit with a :c5strength:CS of 7).
    In classical, they match a trireme at 14:c5strength:, but can outmaneuver them because they can enter deep ocean.
    In medieval, at 21:c5strength: they are slipping behind a caravel's 25:c5strength:, but they still reach this combat potential a tech level before caravels are unlocked, so there is a window in early medieval where they are the biggest bull by a good margin.
    By Renaissance, they have the same :c5strength:CS as a frigate, so they will only take 3 hits from a corvette, and the matchups become worse and worse from there.
    At that point, however, the Balangay gives era-appropriate settlers based on your current tech level, so they are delivering pioneers/colonists to far-off lands without as much need for an escort.

    Also, keep in mind that the Balangay is not expended, so after it has delivered its settler, it can continue to be used as a military unit.
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2019
  20. ofmiciv5

    ofmiciv5 Warlord

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    As a Filipino myself, I DONT WANT the additional UU/UB be warlike units. Overall, my country should be designed for religion, tourism and trade.
     
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