Insane Beelines (maybe Russia isn't so bad?)

Huaojozumakurwa

Chieftain
Joined
Oct 26, 2016
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In my latest game, I used Gilga's UU to gain control of my continent and spam it with cities, ICS style. On turn 112 (100 BC), I had 65bpt, 65cpt, 120gpt.

Funnily enough, I also entered Industrial Era on this turn, by beelining Industrialization for Factories.

Even more funny is the fact that you can research Robotics and complete the Mars Habitation module without ever researching Mining and subsequent techs (e.g. Wheel, Construction).

To a somewhat smaller degree, you can Beeline civics as well.

While a bit unrealistic, it opens up a lot of beeline strategies, especially for Science. Have you taken advantage of this approach in any of your games? What Beelines seem attractive to you?

Also, I tried to capitalize on this fact with Russia and was able to get 4bpt and 3cpt per trade route on King difficulty all through to the Modern Era (using beelines of course). I can only imagine what the numbers would be on higher difficulties when AI is more ahead. By focusing on the top part of the tree, you can go for Frigates/Ironclads and completely dominate the coast (or the map if Island Plates), while neglecting Science/Culture building and still have respectable progress. If you make 6 semi-coastal cities, both with Commercial and Harbour districts, you are looking at 15 trade routes with Merchant Republic. That's upwards of 60-80 bpt, 40-60 cpt and of course lots of gold to rush buy workshops and factories.
 
Every time I've tried for science victory, I beelined rocketry and launched satellites and moon missions with dozens of techs remaining. Spearmen are still my best melee units.

But I wouldn't skip mining. (Or lumber mills.)

It's the easy AI that makes this possible. If we needed to defend against aggressive, challenging AI, we'd need the military techs we now skip.
 
I see the AI skipping techs too, advancing straight from classical to renaissance most commonly.

My personal favorite is getting helicopters without flight (old Army joke- Helicopters don't fly, they beat the air into submission).

With the current mechanic increasing district costs based on the number of techs you have you almost have to skip a lot of techs.
 
I beeline constantly in just about every game - the bottom half of the tree rarely sees much action and I skip a lot of civics going straight for feudalism and eventually urbanization too.

Often by the time I'm sending parts into space I'm going back to get things like castles and stuff. But you're not wrong - this makes Russia's U.A. pretty amazing, In one game I was getting 10 science per turn and about 6+ culture per turn from my international trade routes. It was pretty intense.
 
Russia is also excellent for REX. They claim a lot of land.

When placing cities as close as possible, there are no gaps in Russia's borders, and those sweet tiles in the 2nd ring are available immediately, saving a lot of gold.

And if you want a religion, Russia gets a half price holy site that doesn't count toward the district limit.

Russia isn't bad at all. It may be top tier for a peaceful single player game.
 
On that topic, I started in Tundra with Russia near a Natural Wonder; took the Aurora pantheon, managed to get +8 faith Lavra, then doubled to +16 with the policy and then converted to +16bpt with one of the Great Scientists. That was awesome.
 
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On my first game with Russia, I finished the tech tree (all of it) around t350. But, it would have taken another 100+ turns of hitting next to actually get a science win. Had so much faith, over 100 each turn and thousands of faith in the bank. Had so many great people with no place to put them. Obviously I don't know all the game mechanics yet.
 
I find that international trade route are far worse than internal trade routes till you get that last policy card that gives +5 production and + 10 gold from international trade routes.

What are the yields you guys get with Russia beelines in the early, mid and late game from international routes?
 
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There is a card I think called trade confederacy which give +1 science and +1 culture from all international trade routes which give quite a boost to those trade routes.
 
Russia isn't bad at all. It may be top tier for a peaceful single player game.

I've been arguing this since the Let's Play. Or for a conquest game, too.

On my first game with Russia, I finished the tech tree (all of it) around t350. But, it would have taken another 100+ turns of hitting next to actually get a science win. Had so much faith, over 100 each turn and thousands of faith in the bank. Had so many great people with no place to put them.

I think 100 faith per turn is pretty low for Russia. I was hitting that with just 3 or 4 holy sites. Maybe 5.

Try a Theocracy win. You can double up on faith with 2 policy cards, get +7 combat from beliefs, +4 religious combat from another policy card, and buy a unit per turn with faith. I like the +7 on defense, myself. Seems more thematic. Plus you can convert a conquered city right away, and get the +7 boomity quick.

edit: in fact, sometimes I WON'T play as Russia, just because they are so powerful. Sometimes I want more of a challenge.
edit 2: not many civs can get you a 3/2 or 1/4 start. I think sugar/marsh is one of the few non-Russian combos that can get you 5 f/s. I just started a game on the Yeta map with sugar/marsh and tundra wooded deer. Ivory/Truffles/Dyes are great too. Ivory or truffles probably the best start hands down.
 
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Peter's ability shines against more difficult AIs (Emperor and above) but is barely noticeable in lower difficulties since you're usually ahead of the AI in science and culture.
 
Russia's best victory condition is a cultural victory using faith to help out. A religious victory against a more difficult spammy AI becomes less likely.
 
When I said I had 100 FTP that was a guess and was from the first part of the game. I had so much Faith later, there was no issue buying multiple Apostles every turn to combat the enemy religion that tried to come in.
 
Russia's best victory condition is a cultural victory using faith to help out. A religious victory against a more difficult spammy AI becomes less likely.

Right. The point is, Russia can do anything, and do it well. And is nearly the best in every category across the board. The only competition might be for a quick conquest (but Russia can get some truly awesome early output).

And I love it. I absolutely love it. Russia has always been one of my favorite civs to play, and we finally have a Russia that is an absolute monster. TSL is going to be spectacular.

edit 2: which begs the question.... the trade bonus is the weak attribute... but its the leader's. What if we get a second Russian leader? Like Stalin or Lenin. The devs have to be reallly careful with this, or it will get so imbalanced it won't be fun to play.
 
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edit 2: which begs the question.... the trade bonus is the weak attribute... but its the leader's. What if we get a second Russian leader? Like Stalin or Lenin. The devs have to be reallly careful with this, or it will get so imbalanced it won't be fun to play.

Grand Embassy is actually pretty good at higher difficulties. If you trade with Civs ahead of you on science/culture it's a good way of boosting yourself to stay relevant in the science/culture race. At higher difficulties the AI is going to have more tech/culture than you for the first half of the game. You can also focus on building districts like Lavra, Com hub, IZ without feeling desperate to throw down a campus.
 
When I said I had 100 FTP that was a guess and was from the first part of the game. I had so much Faith later, there was no issue buying multiple Apostles every turn to combat the enemy religion that tried to come in.

Your avatar is now wrong. There is no overlap between Budweiser and Dwayne Johnson. Budweiser and slightly overweight middle aged guy, sure. But not Dwayne Johnson.

OT: There's obviously a place for Russia but I would hesitate to rank them among the most powerful civs in the present balance state. Until the AI learns to fight or the present ICS-friendly mechanics are altered (or perhaps both), rush civs like Scythia and Sumeria are going to be optimal for most victory conditions on higher difficulties. Until the unit selling exploit is fixed, Scythia is far and away the best civ in the game with Sumeria beating it out on a limited subset of Domination settings.

Russia's likely to be the hands down best choice for religious victory, of course.
 
I've been arguing this since the Let's Play. Or for a conquest game, too.



I think 100 faith per turn is pretty low for Russia. I was hitting that with just 3 or 4 holy sites. Maybe 5.

Try a Theocracy win. You can double up on faith with 2 policy cards, get +7 combat from beliefs, +4 religious combat from another policy card, and buy a unit per turn with faith. I like the +7 on defense, myself. Seems more thematic. Plus you can convert a conquered city right away, and get the +7 boomity quick.

edit: in fact, sometimes I WON'T play as Russia, just because they are so powerful. Sometimes I want more of a challenge.
edit 2: not many civs can get you a 3/2 or 1/4 start. I think sugar/marsh is one of the few non-Russian combos that can get you 5 f/s. I just started a game on the Yeta map with sugar/marsh and tundra wooded deer. Ivory/Truffles/Dyes are great too. Ivory or truffles probably the best start hands down.


yeah but what level are you playing? all this seems close to impossible in deity...
 
Your avatar is now wrong. There is no overlap between Budweiser and Dwayne Johnson. Budweiser and slightly overweight middle aged guy, sure. But not Dwayne Johnson.

OT: There's obviously a place for Russia but I would hesitate to rank them among the most powerful civs in the present balance state. Until the AI learns to fight or the present ICS-friendly mechanics are altered (or perhaps both), rush civs like Scythia and Sumeria are going to be optimal for most victory conditions on higher difficulties. Until the unit selling exploit is fixed, Scythia is far and away the best civ in the game with Sumeria beating it out on a limited subset of Domination settings.

Russia's likely to be the hands down best choice for religious victory, of course.

Isn't it great that we are all back together again?
 
I find that international trade route are far worse than internal trade routes till you get that last policy card that gives +5 production and + 10 gold from international trade routes
I don't know where you're getting that from. After a certain point you don't really need food and the gold you can get into the midgame can become insane. My current game I'm getting +20 gpt from london, that's production I can put anywhere.
 
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