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Instead, post your own list of good-to-evil.

Discussion in 'Fall from Heaven Lore' started by Tricit, Nov 9, 2009.

  1. Tricit

    Tricit Chieftain

    Oct 22, 2009
    Instead of everyone trying to convince everyone else why their measure of good versus evil in FFH is the right one, let's just post our own list and explain away; respect eachother's list and the reasons the way it is. No telling people that their's isn't an adequate list because it doesn't fit FFH. No telling people that their list is horrible because mega violence to counter mega violence is as bad as the mega violence in the first place.

    Just show off your list and explain away. Read away at other people's explanation and their possible knowledge of FFH lore as picked out of the mod.

    I will start with my list. This is my list of leaders, who I think are most good to most evil.

    1. Einion Logos. Leader of the Elohim during direct and a national 1 on 1 confrontation against the Infernals, as explained by Valledia the Even and his pedia entries. He managed to make peace with the infernals. Apparently, the Elohim dominated the Infernals in this war, as the terms of the cease fire were heavily favored for the Elohim. Einion forgave any atrocities conducted by the Infernals in this truce, even the murder of his own wife. They, however, under Einion, seemed to Dominate the Infernals on the battlefield enough to force them to sign a Peace Treaty which denied many demands that should be met before Demons gave any room. This immense compassion yet true retribution, all simultaneously under Einion Logos.

    2. Basium. Perhaps Basium is only -so- good as to make it second on my list because he will go at great lengths to save creation. This, is, however, subject to change; if more about Ethne's actual rule, as well as rule of other leaders, is brought into better light, Basium may very well drop a few levels. We already know Einion led Elohim against the infernals perhaps close to the vigor Basium would. What would the other leaders do? Yes, Basium is maximum anti Hyborem. There are more evil figures in FFH than Hyborem; for example, the goddess which employs Tebryn to destroy the world. Until more is known, Basium will just stay at #2 for me.

    3. Falamar. Falamar... Falamar... Listen to me Falamar. Remember that? Well, Falamar apparently has enough sense to fight for good when asked to. Remember the most important scenarios in FFH2? It was all about Falamar stopping Armageddon. Falamar may have command over a people who would rather be elsewhere, but Falamar knows when he is needed for the greater good. Sure, the Lanun as a whole would be lower, but credit must be given where credit is due! And it's not like your cities were revolting randomly through the scenarios, either!

    4. Varn Gosam. As quoted from the Malakim pedia text: "The only elves the Malakim had seen were the the dark Svartalfar. Yet, when a group of hunters happened across a nearly-dead elven man freezing in the wastes, they took him back to their village and agreed to tend to his injuries rather than kill him." This compassion is impressed and directly reflected onto Varn Gosam. Good that can fight evil while seeing possible rehabilitation in less evil is very good Good indeed.

    5. Sabathiel. He saved a group of people from Hell who would be called, or have already been called (among themselves) the Bannor civilization. Archangel drawn into the mortal realm much like Cassiel, but under different circumstances, Sabathiel is a leader of compassion for those who need it and revenge against only those who truly deserve it.

    6. Capria. She is a leader of Bannor which coincides in a time where Sabathiel remains their protector. She fights along side Donal and Sabathiel against the raging barbarians, and in direct front line combat. Truly one who risks her life for good is good enough for the fifth ranking.

    7. Arendel Phaedra too bad right now she's sitting in a coffin in Faeryl's Ljosalfar capital, or she's be one heck of a good leader. She faught to bring her people back together, and not to rid civilization of the -other elves-. Unfortunately, this landed her where she is today. She probably offered Faeryl equal opportunity even after winning the war, and look what happened! Good thing Faeryl loves her enough to not kill her. SISTER LOVE! As we know, though, the scenarios are not canon yet as some go both ways. We still technically have Arendel out there as a ruler, doing always what is just and good, and always tending properly to creation.

    8. Cardith Lorda dislikes Hyrborium with as just as much passion as Basium... well, perhaps less, but almost, and definitely more than anyone else! He rules few cities, but rules him well he does. A prosperous nation with prosperous people needs protecting from the encroaching evils. Cardith may be the most cunning of all the FFH2 leaders; perhaps more so than Faeryl, or perhaps not, yet again. Anyways, Cardith seems to be about as pissed off by Evil as Basium, but just as concerned with keeping existing civilization in tact as Cassiel.

    9. Ethne the White. I want to put her higher. I mean, just look at her name. It sounds so goody good. Also, she's very goody good beautiful in her picture! Unfortunately, the only actual good we know about Ethne is that she rules over the same nation as Einion, and that she eventually had her palace hedges cut so she could see her city every day. Not much to go off, here.

    10. Garrim Gyr. I only put Garrim before Beeri because he fights a more evil concept; the end of creation. Garrim is probably the reason why the Luchuirp see Sheaim as an enemy, while the same for Beeri in relation to the Balseraphs. Garrim's pedia entry discribes how he fought against what seemed to be Sheaim troops who were previously his apprentices and peers.

    11. Cassiel. I was just about to put Beeri at the end of the list of good leaders, but I went into the neutral section before I made any mistakes. Cassiel wants creation to thrive, but fails to see the reasons as to actively fight against evil. Because there are those who will take the battle to Evil, Cassiel has the option to be neutral. Needless to say, if it were just Cassiel and Evil, Cassiel would have to fight for all of Creation. Kind of sad to see so much altruism become so useless! I agree with Cassiel, unfortunately, the Sheaim and Infernals do not!

    12. Beeri Bawl. Poor poor Beerie. Two neutral leaders I did place before him! I'm glad he's not real, or he'd be rather disappointed being so low for a supposedly good leader. He does fight evil, yes; but it's out of revenge. Maybe some of it is to prevent what happened to him from happening to others, but the Balseraphs are medicore evil at best. They don't feed on the souls of others to maintain themselves. They aren't trying to bring about Armageddon. They just love a good joke, even if it's at the expense of another! Beeri was even released by Perpentach, the main man himself!

    13. Thessa. Although not exactly an adamant defender of the whole of creation itself, she is an active protector of nature to the best of her abilities. Thessa would likely be much much higher on the list if she wasn't so busy dealing with the Svartalfar. She has less opportunity to show how good she really can be, as Arendel seems to take all the goody spotlight. Thessa seems more like a silent wise witch who will seem vague at first, but wise an hour after you left her.

    These people are not spectular in any Evil or Good fashion. I put them in this order.

    14. Arturus Thorne - Probably just honorable
    15. Valledia the Even - Quite neutral
    16. Amelanchier - Ruthless of the Ljosafar, but for the right cause.
    17. Sandalphon - Probably once killed a guy just to kill a guy in his quest for knowledge. Probably won't do it again, though.
    18. Decius - A regular joe.
    19. Dain the Caswallan - A bit too selfrighteous when it comes to dark magic.
    20. Kandros Fir - ugly
    21. Rhoanna - She's probably killed people for the loot, but less than.
    22. Tasunke - He's probably killed way too many people just for loot.
    23. Keelyn - A spoiled brat. She fools around more so with animals than human pets.

    Okay, now we we've reached the part of my list where I would begin calling them evil again.
    23. Mahala. He just really loves the loot and tries to help one of the less dramatic angels to resist against The One.

    24. Hannah the Irin. A true witch. She isn't really trying to destroy people, but she loves taking things that aren't hers and slaughtering those who get in her way. She is an adamant follower of Octopus Overlords, a religion known to turn good people away from good. Demon spawning and through ritual sacrifice make Hannah the Irin quite an evil witch indeed.

    25. Auric Ulvin. He doesn't follow rules of his kind, but isn't really -that- evil. He just wants to show off his big wintery powers is all! Too bad he doesn't care how much this hurts everybody else.

    26. Tebryn Arbandi. Perhaps you're surprised I didn't put Tebryn as more evil. It is true he means to destroy creation, but only to save himself; although it will probably mean his ultimate damnation when The One comes in to fix everything. He could have been good if he had declined, stayed in Hell for his sins, and repented there to The One. When The One comes to fix creation, he could have been saved maybe. The fact he didn't take this path... or the fact that he did something to land him in Hell in the first place, obviously makes him evil... I just wouldn't say he is more Evil than I put him, because it isn't his will to end creation. It's his will to not go back to Hell.

    27. Perpentach. He plays with people like we go onto Adultswim.com and play with sadist browser video games. Enough said.

    28. Faeryl Viconia Truly a deceptive individual. They want their way. They can be a peaceful ally, theoretically. The time will come when they ask for a trade or demand you share resources. It's only fair, right? The land is for everyone. Under a facade, they will pretend to take your rejections with grace. One diplomatic mistake with the Svartalfar, however, will land you at war with them. Everything must go their way, and if it doesn't it's your head.

    29. Charadon a friend of the Barbarians and leader of the Doveillo. He seems to abuse his barbarian relationships to achieve more sinister goals, while raiding people in between! It's about as evil as a regular type of person can get! Unfortunately for Charadon, FFH is full of more than just regular people!

    30. Flauros is less evil than Alexis for a few reasons. Also, Flauros seems to take a more imperial approach to handling the Calabim nation. He loves to keep his people in check with the Pillar of Chains... which seems bad until you look deeper beneath Alexis' facade.

    31. Jonas Endain. The barbarians. They come for your city. You plea to not die... but you die anyways. Why do they do it? They don't feel the need to answer your questions. It's all in the name of Bhall. Go F yourself and die. Your city is OURS now. But he's spiritual and not aggressive, so...

    32. Sheelba She is a barbarian, but very aggressive.

    33. Alexis. Her favorite civic, Aristocracy. So what? It's not that evil of a civic! Oh wait, but she is the one who invented Vampirism and created an entire industry out of it. At the center of this Vampiric industry is the soul forge. How much more evil can you get? I mean, just look at the name of that building. soul forge...

    34. Os-Gabell. I havn't decided if Os-Gabell is actually this evil or not. The simple facts are this. She's only been alive through 4 ages and is already too bored to live anymore. She seriously must be one of two things. Actually Evil and her whole "bored of creation" reason is a facade, therefore this position is correctly given at number 34... or... She is immensely stupid. Too stupid to figure out new fun things to do. In which case we all need to help her find out how to commit suicide so she stops making babies. She made Alexis, and that didn't turn out too well.

    35. Hyborem. He is the ruler of Hell invited by some a-hole to come and corrupt all of creation to the point of Armageddon. Truly the most evil of all the leaders in the game. There are obviously more evil figures in the existance of FFH2, though.
  2. Lone Wolf

    Lone Wolf Chieftain

    Dec 4, 2006
    She is also prominent in Wages of Sin, where she
    Spoiler :
    builds the Mercurian Gate (an act condemned by Einion), leads her nation in the fight against the Infernals, Sheaim and Calabim, and gets assassinated by the Sidar assasins in the end.
    See the Elohim text for the scenario.

    Where are you getting tat idea from? It's Valledia who's the more shady of the two.

    Mahala is a she.

    I doubt Os-Gabella will desire to have more children anymore.
  3. Tricit

    Tricit Chieftain

    Oct 22, 2009
    Self righteous does not equal shadey. He is selfrighteous in his disdain for it. I don't know of any lore stating the darker arts are inherently evil, just those that use them do so because the magic fit their goals better. This isn't Star Wars.

    Yes, I remember this. I would actually put her lower than Einion for this act. To both save creation while preserving existing life seems more 'Good' if it can be done, and Einion seems to have the both resource and command ability to do so. Calling the Mercurians in I feel is more of a last resort.

    So she is... oopse!

    If I go by my own assessment, It would be hard to know if she will hold onto those sentiments.
  4. Lone Wolf

    Lone Wolf Chieftain

    Dec 4, 2006
    Well, necromancy experiments often involve pretty unpleasant stuff.

    Entropy, lore-wise, is pretty directly connected to evil, since Agares is the god of it. Game-wise, anyone regardless of alignment may use it (though Good people will slightly dislike you for it), but a mage who practices Death or Entropy magic always becomes a mane of Hyborem upon death.

    And it's ironic that Einion is your #1 and Basium #2. These two don't like each other much.
  5. MagisterCultuum

    MagisterCultuum Great Sage

    Feb 14, 2007
    Kael's head
    Os-Gabella has never had any children, or any sex for that matter. She is a virgin, who is strongly repelled by the idea of sex because the gods tried to make her submit to mating with Nemed and then shortly afterwards Aeron tried to rape her to force her to bear him demigod children. The One last entered Creation in order to prevent Aeron from raping her. (The gods, at Nemed's request, were also violating a direct order from The One when they gave her the immortality that she has come to despise. The One really sides with her more than any of the gods.)

    Os-Gabella kidnapped and adopted Alexis and Flauros during the 6th generation of man, which I assume was probably still in the early part of the Age of Dragons. Alexis became terrified of the prospect of dying, as everyone in the Bair of Lacuna except she as her younger brother were immortal. Os-Gabella took her to witness death in Erebus, to convince her it was nothing to fear. (I do not think she had become suicidal yet, but showing death to Alexis may have made her a little jealous of mortal rest), but it didn't really work. Alexis, without her adopted mother's knowledge of permission, experimented by killing a man on her own, but was disappointed to see no soul leave for the afterlife. She then studied up on Ceridwen's most secret tomes and found runes she could use to trap the soul to investigate it, used the runes in her murder of Lanthis (an Acolyte of Lugus), and after perhaps hours of torture allowed to soul to escape into her and consumed it. The ritual allowed her to steal his remaining strength and longevity to add to her own, but also incurred a curse from Lugus to compensate for her clearly conscious. The abilities and curse carried on to those with whom she shared the ritual, creating the vampires.

    Alexis and Flauros's actions constituted service to Aeron, whom they began to worship. I believe that on account of the attempted rape Os-Gabella hates Aeron more than anyone, and was outraged by her children's betrayal. I believe that is is the pain of this betrayal that drives her attempts at suicide/the total destruction of creation. She disowned them long ago and banished them from the Bair. She will not adopt any more children for fear that Aeron will claim them as his too.

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