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Interesting Civilization Discriptions...

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by Mangas, Oct 13, 2010.

  1. kaltorak

    kaltorak Emperor

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    Sadly I agree that china will be the next superpower. And I say sadly because part of their success is that they work like slaves. In spain all shops are being replaced by chinese, because they work 16 hours a day, 7 days a week. If the future of the world is like that, I don't want it.

    Not even mentioning how china is acting on behalf of the peace noble price

    About the game description, I think it does china justice. They've been and are so important.
     
  2. pi-r8

    pi-r8 Luddite

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    In terms of absolute power the USA is still rising, but in terms of power relative to the rest of the world our peak was definitely the years right after WW2. The USA was basically the only modern economy which hadn't been completely devastated by that war, so there was just no one who could compete with us at all.
     
  3. gornard

    gornard Chieftain

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    It's easy to think of china as a continuous entity, but china has changed character as much as those states in Mesopotamia or india. Rulers often look for a sense of historical continuity (excluding communists) so the rhetoric always suggests that their nation has been around forever, the reality is a bit different.

    Americans generally have longer working hours than europeans, but during their time as world super power that didn't effect us. So i think your safe.

    If china becomes the next dominant power, it won't be the same character as the united states. Up until now they have been relatively isolationist, except when it comes to farm land and mineral rights. As the economy grows you'll see the backbone of their economy: the manufacturing sector, continue to shrink relatively and a growing middle class will eventually impinge on the governments strangle hold on civil and economic rights. This is a country that has only had property rights for number of years, and still relies heavily on a system of favors and patronage to get ahead in the business world, as a result most of their private investment is abroad (especially in the united states).
     
  4. Tee Kay

    Tee Kay Justice guaranteed

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    Yawn... all these Fall of America predictions. They're so old... :coffee:
     
  5. Fortunately the Chinese are moving towards democracy, and I mean real solid democracy like the US before the New Deal.

    Hopefully the US will turn around before it falls unfortunately the terrorists would have to make us really angry, preferably not genocidally angry, I'd rather not attribute genocide to the US.:(

    Europe is done for. Demographic death nuff' said, And I'm sure the Chinese really wouldn't mind owning siberia.:mischief:

    Are we depressed yet?:mischief:

    On topic: I would like to apologize in advance to all the young Earthers, but Yellow river civilization traces back to 7000 B.C. So define Chinese civilization.

    I agree with the poster who commented about the moon. Stupid NASA.:mad:
    But they don't have to try any more. Now their new mission is to reach out to Muslim communities.:rolleyes:
     
  6. Bibor

    Bibor Doomsday Machine

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    Nah, America will not fall so easily. Although China also had its number of large conflicts, the US already worked out most of the "usual conflicts" of the modern age, to mention slavery, racism, freedom of speech and religion, emancipation, south vs. north etc. in which China is around 200 years behind the US in that matter.

    The only real two big things that the US still needs to do is to stop acting like a bully in puberty and to stop sucking up to customers. I like american art and manufactured products. I really do. Because they come from a lot of experience, creativity and lots and lots of hard work. What I don't like about them is that they are novadays made out of fear (rather than pride) and that they are always being offered at a point of a gun.

    Sometimes manufacturers (and other skilled labor for that matter) must take a stand and not allow for their own efforts (and efforts of their ancestors) to be taken away by a horde of morons with credit cards.
     
  7. kaltorak

    kaltorak Emperor

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    Moving towards democracy? They just banned a norweegian (?) cyrcus from china because the noble price was given to somebody they don't like. And thats what I remember, they are doing more things like that
     
  8. Really it's not so much that we are acting like a bully. We are acting like the teacher who will not do any thing about the bully. Bullies don't apologize to the Chinese about securing our own border. We should either A) let the rest of the world alone for the most part, or B) Continue to interfere and do so effectively and in the right places. Either we shouldn't tell you what to do, or we should tell you what not to do and give you reason to obey. Russia invades Georgia, "Well Mr. Putin in three days if you have not left two squadrons of F-16s will go into combat, three days after that will throw in an infantry brigade, then armor." Iran threatens Israel with nuclear weapons, oh and I'madinnerjacket holds a false election despite the rage of his people, well the US army would fix that real fast. Nth Korea threatens South Korea, well I'd like to invade but Seoul would get flattened.

    I'm not suggesting we do these things but I am suggesting we either be the citizen or the bad cop, 'cause the good cop routine 'aint workin'.


    Let me 'splain. Their POLITICAL OFFICERS are writing theses on why they should become a democracy, Communists regimes don't last forever and eventually this one will come down.
     
  9. falconne

    falconne meep

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    If we use the Bronze Age as the delimiter between pre-history and civilization, then:
    Indus valley civilization started (estimated): 3300BC
    Xia Dynasty started (estimated): 2100BC

    While Indo-Europeans didn't arrive in the subcontinent till the Iron Age in 1500BC, you can't say the Indus culture weren't Indian any more than you could say Anglo-Saxons weren't English until the Normans arrived.

    In the old world, much of early civilization knowledge seemed to have spread out of the fertile crescent and China was simply too far away for the Bronze Age to arrive before around 2000BC. From the Iron Age onwards they started to outpace pretty much every other culture. It all depends on when you start looking.
     
  10. gornard

    gornard Chieftain

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    too late. Not that that is unusual, it unfortunantly seems like a right of passage for most world powers at some point in their history.

    It seems like a demographic shift combined with a loosening on the top that makes it seem like theres a gradual shift to a more representative china. Its not inevitable though, all they need is the next party leader to order a turn around or play the nationalism card (invading Taiwan for example). China could remain an authoritarian single party country for another 50 years or we could see multiple parties in 10.
     
  11. Tee Kay

    Tee Kay Justice guaranteed

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    Don't bet on it.

    Too late.

    Demographics isn't everything. And Russia is on the rise. It's doing much better than China on the per-capita basis.


    Yes, it's Chinese civilization in a form that is unrecognizable to modern China.

    lolwut?
     
  12. Bibor

    Bibor Doomsday Machine

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    Democracy is a form of government that works only if the voting population is both educated and willing to resolve issues by voting (instead of shooting somebody). Slapping a "here be democracy" sticker on a country won't do it much good if these criteria are not met.

    If today you'd introduce a multi-party democracy in China it would be the beginning of World War 3, because all the neofascist and radical slum would crawl out of the gutter and start talking sweet to the general public.
     
  13. Bibor

    Bibor Doomsday Machine

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    Terrorism:

    A man in a red suit comes to you with guns blazing.
    A man in a blue suit approaches and offers you guns to shoot the red guy.

    ... 10 years later ...
    A man in a blue suit comes to you with guns blazing.
    A man in a red suit approaches and offers you guns to shoot the blue guy.

    ... 30 years later ...

    Your country is ruined, most of your kin is dead, your whole world is war. All you learned to trust is your own faith, your will to live and your will to fight.

    Like you wouldn't rather work, raise children and build something that won't be destroyed by *someone* two years later.

    And then they call you a terrorist. Or a diaperhead.

    You know, you really have to be ******** to beat a dog every day for 20 years and then "shoot the rabid beast" because it bit someone.
     
  14. gornard

    gornard Chieftain

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    Why do you think china would be full of neofacists and radicals? and why do you think they would cause a world war? There are plenty of educated countries with fringe parties, but they usually don't gain any purchase without some form of social pressure or friction. There are belligerent and probably xenophobic elements in china but that doesn't mean they will gain government if they went democratic. More often then not, when a country comes out of a strict authoritarian regime they will vote for a more moderate one (with obvious exceptions). The best situation will probably be gradual change in a sort of perestroika style as opposed to immediate revolution.
     
  15. Civnerd

    Civnerd Chieftain

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    Democracy is the best political system in the world, because we Americans have democracy. Therefore, every countries on this planet should adopt democracy. If you don't adopt democracy, than we will send an army of 30000 to your country and try to make you understand why adopting democracy is in your best interest.

    Too bad they scrap that idea in civ5, it was so cool in civ4 to force someone to change religion.
     
  16. Bibor

    Bibor Doomsday Machine

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    Let me put it into CIV5 terms.

    When you have 3 cities and all 3 building a research lab, nobody argues.
    When you have 3 cities and one of them is building a hydroplant, the other 2 cities don't argue because they know they're not on river and they are getting a nuclear plant instead.

    When you have 30 cities most of which has only a library, people start to question why just the selected 3-4 cities are getting the research labs, while they'll never get anything past libraries.

    Or in other words, large countries need to invest much more into the public sector to achieve the same quality of democracy that smaller countries benefit from. Note that being smaller isn't exactly a panacea; my own country is a democratic sh**hole with its 4.5 mio. population.
     
  17. Shafi-is-back

    Shafi-is-back Prince

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    Since we are talking politics, from the perspective of a developing nation we are very very happy to see china doing so well :goodjob:

    The reason being that, now we have a choice, we dont need to take crap from the US and EU on every single policy decision, like our govt has shown in the recent past, we can now afford to tell the west to take a hike, cos china is willing to fund development in countries like ours.

    PS - of course noones stupid and we understand that china is befriending us since we are strategically located allowing them to have us as a naval base to control the indian ocean but still feels good to actually make decisions for ourselves.
     
  18. Shafi-is-back

    Shafi-is-back Prince

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    In summary its good for the balance of the world.

    If the USSR had still been around do you think Afghanistan & Iraq would have been invaded by a madman? dont think so.
     
  19. Tee Kay

    Tee Kay Justice guaranteed

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    Cough cough
     
  20. Louis XXIV

    Louis XXIV Le Roi Soleil

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    I wasn't forgetting it. I could be remembering wrong, but I thought the Indus Valley first started having agriculture about 7000 BC. Mesopotamia is often quoted as 10-12,000 BC. China is a bit less known, but I usually see 9,000 BC. I've heard some people say it's the same age as Mesopotamia, but it's hard to say.

    Actually, I agree completely, but it's still something publicly accepted as true. Egypt is the same way (they get credit for continuity that isn't entirely there). I'm guessing that's what the reference is for, but I could be wrong.

    Do you have a clue what you're talking about? During the end of the Ottoman Empire when Archeology was just beginning, plenty of German archeologists (and some British, French, American ones) had unprecedented access to the area. They translated cuneiform, they discovered the mound of Nimrud (Callah), they excavated Nineveh and found the Assyrian Great Library (including the Epic of Gilgemesh). This continued after World War I when Britain owned Iraq as a mandate. During this period, we learned a lot about Mesopotamian cultures and even began to trace the beginnings of their agricultural history. At the same time, all we cared about in China was selling them opium. Now, granted, even if we did care about Chinese pre-history back then, it would be harder because the desert in Iraq, Kuwait, and Eastern Turkey have preserved much more than would be found elsewhere and many of the ancient cities were abandoned and are just mounds to dig into. That's why we have far more firm dates about the beginning of agriculture in the Fertile Crescent than we do in China.
     

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