1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

Interesting Civilization Discriptions...

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by Mangas, Oct 13, 2010.

  1. onlyone

    onlyone Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2003
    Messages:
    5
    Some of your arguments seem to be alright until you actually check the facts. Things like "...combine all that with the fact that over half of China's 1.3 billion people are still illiterate peasants with no skills other than farming..." are completely baseless. China's literacy rate in 2002 was actually about 90% which means there were roughly 10% or 0.13 billion "illiterate peasants" overthere, far from half of 1.3 billion. You probably confused India with China.
     
  2. falconne

    falconne meep

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2005
    Messages:
    204
    Location:
    New Zealand
    As per my previous post, I'd disagree that the first use of agriculture counts as the beginning of "civilization". There's no clear distinction of course, but you can't just keep going back until the first time humans arrived somewhere and call that the beginning of their civilization. I suppose you can call it the beginning of their culture, but it wouldn't be very complex at that point.

    I think you have to consider the Bronze Age, when people started building cities and specialisation began... it's at that point that a people started to form complex cultures that they can pass on to future generations. From the point of view of entry in to the Bronze Age, the Indus Valley starts at 3300BC and China at 2100BC.
     
  3. Bibor

    Bibor Doomsday Machine

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2004
    Messages:
    2,720
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Zagreb, Croatia
    Actually, the developes got this one right. Farming was the basis of civilization as we know it because it meant creating static settlements instead of wandering tribes. Since there are no "mobile capitals" in any CIV, starting from CIV1, I completely agree with CIV5 developers in this.
     
  4. ^^Agree.


    Demographics aren't every thing. But if your pop is shrinking while foreign nationals who would like to change the fundamentals of your government outnumber you, your in a spot of trouble. Russia will get stronger for a while but if Putin can't bring the population up then eventually there will not be enough Russians.

    C'mon the Native Americans were not genocide we came close but didn't do it. Besides I should rephrase I don't want genocide associated with the modern US.

    Also were not a bunch of nutters over here. If China became a superpower it would be a cold war at best, if they became a democracy we would be there ally.

    Europe I fear is no longer powerful nor does it have the ability to return to it's former glory any time in the near future without large amounts of violence.

    It's not like we invaded Iraq and Afghanistan for fun. Afghanistan was full of Al-Queada, and Saddam needed to be removed, which honestly was a great excuse to try and set up a western style democracy in the mideast. How would you responded to nine eleven? By leaving the terrorists alone? I vote that anyone who funds the terrorists should sit uneasily on his throne.

    Finally, stop victimizing the terrorists, they have set out deliberately to spread Islam throughout the world and what does it matter if a few million innocents die to do Allah's holy work? I mean Jihadi literally means a holy war, a crusade.
     
  5. landlord

    landlord Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2005
    Messages:
    1
    Since you mention that, let me say something regarding that "somebody they don't like".

    That guy certainly is NOT a fan of civilization, at least not a fan of his own civilization. His most famous quota:"The only hope for China is to be colonized by West for 300 years and 300 years might not even be enough." That's why his nickname is China is "Colonized LIU". :lol:

    I guess those "Noble gentlemen" in Norway might be fans of Colonization, in fact, I'm also a fan. But like most of my countrymen, I just do NOT like to BE colonized. ;)
     
  6. Tee Kay

    Tee Kay Justice guaranteed

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2005
    Messages:
    21,855
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Melbourne
    As I said way back in the thread: too late.

    Taken as a whole, the European Union has a larger economy than the United States and its citizens are probably doing better, on a per capita basis.

    Oh wow, how did that turned out?

    9-11 hijackers are criminals. Treat them like criminals. Giving them the status of war combatants raises their status unnecessarily.

    Far more Muslims have died as a result of their activities than Westerners.

    No it doesn't.
     
  7. TheDanish

    TheDanish Prince

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2008
    Messages:
    362
    Location:
    USA East Coast
    After double checking, my quoted illiteracy rate was indeed off - I probably should have said something closer to "poor literacy," though even that term is relative. The PRC itself defines literacy for a farmer at ~1500 characters.

    But the number of peasants is accurate. The urban population of China accounts for something like 40-45% of its total population (CIA World Factbook lists it as 43%), and beyond China's urban areas there is truly little other than small villages or farms. There are very few "suburbs" like we see in the United States, and those that exist reside almost exclusively outside of major cities - Beijing, for example. Various sources list China's rural numbers as anywhere from 55% to 70% of the total pop, so my main point remains valid: China has a long way to go and a lot of people to educate before it can be considered a modern superpower.
     
  8. Louis XXIV

    Louis XXIV Le Roi Soleil

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2003
    Messages:
    13,579
    Location:
    Norfolk, VA
    That's a fair point. I just figured it's all vague and agriculture is a good point when you're talking about pioneers in the area (although the Indus Valley civilization actually learned agriculture from the Middle East). When I read your first sentence, I thought you were going to go the opposite direction. Cities like Jericho were large, complex cities with walls (meaning conducting warfare) before agriculture was invented.
     
  9. Bibor

    Bibor Doomsday Machine

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2004
    Messages:
    2,720
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Zagreb, Croatia
    Jericho is a really poor example, being probably the only known settlement that pre-dates agriculture. It had to have some continuous source of food however, and I doubt they just had a lot of berry bushes outside of city walls :).
     
  10. Doctor Phibes

    Doctor Phibes Prince

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2010
    Messages:
    486
    Location:
    London
    Doubt that he did, think it was just a silly knee-jerk. Overall, the CIA has Indian literacy as 61%, with a strong male bias (73.4 male vs 47.8 female). Other sources are in broad agreement. Now while that isn't spectacular, it obviously does not amount to more than half the general population.

    Obligatory chime-in - I think India can - and I hope will - do better than this, and very soon. And actually, I think they are a great power in the making - 'superpower' is so 20th century, IMO. But only if they fix that female illiteracy figure, I'd say. Anyway, what we should be applauding is that they are hacking it without resorting to a totalitarian command economy like China's.
     
  11. falconne

    falconne meep

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2005
    Messages:
    204
    Location:
    New Zealand
    That's true as far as the game is concerned. My argument was specifically in the context of the Indus Valley culture and the Neolithic Chinese culture. Just arguing from the point of "at what stage did the cultures start becoming what we'd call Indian and Chinese, as opposed to being generic representations of agrarian humans". The entry in to the Bronze Age seemed like a good point.

    The point is quite arguable of course and mine is just an opinion.
     
  12. Centurio

    Centurio Warlord

    Joined:
    May 31, 2010
    Messages:
    179
    Location:
    The Roman Heartlands
    The Roman Empire had a much better system of managing its provincials than the Chinese, and they didn't find it arousing to break women's feet...
     
  13. tom2050

    tom2050 Deity

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2005
    Messages:
    5,516


    Now, I don't know the exact current data, and really don't care... but U.S. living standards are more than one-third higher than those in Europe.

    Great argument... the whole world has a larger economy than <insert a single country here>. Well, we all certainly hope so.
     
  14. Disgustipated

    Disgustipated Deity

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2006
    Messages:
    11,162
    Location:
    Las Vegas
    Umm, I'm pretty sure European living standards are higher than the U.S. Sure we have more money, but we don't exactly have any social benefits like healthcare, pensions, letting terrorism thrive within their borders (I'm kidding- it's a joke)
     
  15. Louis XXIV

    Louis XXIV Le Roi Soleil

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2003
    Messages:
    13,579
    Location:
    Norfolk, VA
    It's the only one, I thought it was just the most well know. Either way, your point stands. And, yeah, they did have steady food supplies outside of the city. It's probably somewhat related to how agriculture developed, I would think (people would gather wild grains and store them in the city. Some of the seeds would grow into new plants. They could also manage the wild grains even if they didn't plant them by weeding, etc).
     
  16. tom2050

    tom2050 Deity

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2005
    Messages:
    5,516
    Unions do... and in fact they get so much pension that they are bankrupting almost every state in the union. Thanks Unions. Who wants to wait forever to see a doctor? I don't exactly see these things equating to a higher standard of living.

    It's funny how people think they are 'owed something'. Get a job and you get health insurance. If job doesn't offer it, buy it. If it's too expensive, get catastrophic only. If your older, use medicare and medicaid. If you are not responsible for your finances, then that person will have to deal with it.

     
  17. Reginleif

    Reginleif Warlord

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2010
    Messages:
    210
    Location:
    Hamilton, Canada
    The problem with many of these assumption about furture global superpowers is that they rarley take into account climate change. China and India may be on the verge of of future stardom, but these areas and other less developed nations will suffer the most from rising sea levels, droughts, etc, than established first world nations like U.S.A., Canada, and Russia (Most of Europe is crewed though :lol:)
     
  18. tom2050

    tom2050 Deity

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2005
    Messages:
    5,516
    @Reginleif: Did you miss the whole Climate scandal? Scientists were skewing scientific data to make global warming seem like it was happening, when it is not. It was being done so they could claim that developed nations are destroying the world, and to force some kind of global re-distribution of wealth.

    The same thing happened in recent history where the same type of people claimed global cooling was going to destroy life forever with another ice age, and they wanted similar wealth re-distributions.

    For being in the age of information, I don't see how people ignore looking up basic facts for themselves... everyone should know you shouldn't believe everything you hear.
     
  19. stii

    stii Warlord

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2010
    Messages:
    268
    But we should listen to your random bar graph?
     
  20. Tee Kay

    Tee Kay Justice guaranteed

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2005
    Messages:
    21,855
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Melbourne
    Do you know anything about the world outside the USA?

    A set of scientist screwed around with a set of climate data, which of course invalidates all climate data and research made over the past 30 odd years by thousands of scientists around the world. :rolleyes:

    Turned out that this is happening too, sort of.

    :lol:
     

Share This Page