Interesting Conundrum in Regent game - Advice?

[BinkleyYaz]

Hello,

I have a Regent-level game as Babylonians that presents me with an interesting strategic problem. Continents, 5 other civs.

Basically, I am on one large inverted-triangle-ish continent with Iroquois, Americans, and Aztecs. Iros and Amers to North of me on both corners of the inverted triangle, with Aztecs to my south. Other 2 civs are on another contnent and out of contact. We are into the middle ages now.

And therein lies the conundrum. I am dead in the middle of three reasonably powerful civs, with no real chokepoints. Iros and Amers hate the Aztecs and periodically go to war with them. Their war is pretty much an attrition-fest with no clear winner as far as I can see. I am on Polite terms with the Iros and Amers and trade frequently, while the Aztecs are Annoyed and periodically demand tribute. All nations see fit to pass thru my territory whether we have RoP agreement or not. They need to in order to prosecute their wars as I am the buffer.

Militarily, I have been the weakest of the four (why I haven't really been able to enforce my territory), but I am getting better. I think I am the only one with Knights so far, and have been building up my forces as much as possible while still building infrastructure too. A lot of my southern cities were settled in major jungles, and much effort is being exerted to make them more viable. There are a few outpost cities from the other civs in this region. I am currently banking on culture to make them mine at some point.

Another major issue: I have no horses, and have to buy them at inflated prices from the Americans. I don't think Aztecs have horses. Iros have some close to my border with them.

So, what would you do at this point? The strategic position is challenging to put it charitably. Long, porous borders on all sides. I am getting better equipped for war, if need be, with every passing turn. But I can't risk war with the Americans as that shuts off horses which means no viable middle-age/early-industrial army. If I grab them from the Iros that could hose me as they and the Americans are likely allies given their behavior toward the Aztecs. My best bet for a war is against the Aztecs. That gets me likely buddies with my two northern neighbors and solidifies my southern front. Also I am in the best position to get the spoils and booty. Only problem then is, where are Amers and Iros going to work out their pent-up aggressions once the Aztecs are neutralized? Two on one doesn't sound good to me. Also, Aztecs don't have a ton resource-wise. Besides, we all have pretty large empires so a total conquest of anybody would be long in coming.

There are plenty of options to consider .... What would you do? Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks.

BinkleyYaz

 

[mmmBEER]

Well, get a mutual protection pact with your neighbors to the North.

Attack the Aztecs to the south.

Personally, I find the in the long run, horses are nothing to worry about. You're almost to the point, where they become outmoded.

After that, take your now elite Knights and march on through the weaker of the Northern two (while acquiring a military alliance vs them with the other. There you go, two down and only one to go.

 

[eyrei]

I completely disagree about the horses. You will not win a war for the rest of the middle ages and the first 2/3 of the indutrial age without them. If possible, plant a city within your territory that could conceivably encompass the 'horse' square of the iroquios. Then take a look at the Iroquois city nearest the horses. If the culture is not very high, which is likely at regent level, begin rush building cultural improvements in your new city until its borders encroach on the square with horses.

I also would not wipe out the Aztecs, just take one or two key cities with resources or luxuries and then play defense until the military alliance with the Americans and Iroquois expires (20 turns). Then sign a peace treaty, and go back to building up your empire.

 

[gormtheold]

Go after the Aztecs. And don't stop until you leave them with one city (they'll give you whatever they have--map, techs, resources, etc.) I speak from the authority of a frequent loser, who, through my pacifistic culture-building ways have repeatedly let opponents back up when they were down. If you are Babs, you shouldn't have to worry, but, if any city turns back after they are left with one, go do them in entirely. After losing repeatedly at Regent, I recently resolved to 1) Never, never demphasize my military 2) Get an advantage, and then, go for the kill. I recently played as Japanese, got lousy start, was hemmed in with five cities, and then the Germans declared war, I figured, what the hell, built nothing but swordsmen and took a city or two. When I was winning, Iroquois (who I feared early because of the Mounted Warrior) got in to take a share of the spoils. When I got Samurai, I went across a narrow strait and attacked the Babs (actually, they declared war on me because I was messing up their continent with two little cities), conquered them (though having to reconquer at least four flips), went on to win the game.

Moral--Kick em when they're down--the AIs'll cheerfully join in to share the spoils. The Aztecs seem a safe opponent. Worry about the others turning on you later on (when you have twice the cities to build units in). If they attack you, your morale even goes up at the start.

 

[pansarman]

In general you should attack when new resources or tech come in play as the computer doesn't take those into use as fast as a human player. As you have knights keep on building them and as saltpeter is obviously not that far away. I'd wait for the saltpeter to appear. Then attack the civ with the saltpeter, especially if you don't have any yourselves, you probably can deny him of saltpeter use before he can build any musketmen.

 

[gormtheold]

There are a few additional points (ain't nothing as talky as a convert--I was lamenting to my son "How do you beat this game? Obviously, some people do, or, at least, claim to on line. I figured what I was doing was wrong and figured trying something different certainly couldn't make me do any worse.

Build nothing but Knights. Two advantages-don't attack until you're ready-build twenty or thirty--and you can get them all built before having to pay again for the horses--if you start a unit while you got them you can finish it even if you don't anymore.

Useful quotes-"Never do an enemy a small injustice"-Machiavelli, "When it's time to talk, talk, when it's time to shoot, shoot"-Eli wallach in the Good, the Bad, and the Ugly. Remember the Powell doctrine, which I characterize as never send five thousand men when one thousand will do, send ten thousand.

They'll be plenty of time to develop later. Forget wonders--you might get a great leader that'll let you slip one in-as the Japanese, I get a bunch. Don't worry you'll fall behind, I was able to develop my whole Babylonian continent quickly cause I got a leader to build the Hoover Dam up there. And, with all my build nothing but samurai plan, I still only fell a little behind on tech and quickly recovered once the Bab cities were developed and pumping out research.

 

[BinkleyYaz]

Thanks for the advice and replies. Another look at the situation convinced me to take on the Aztecs almost immediately, as their offensive force of mostly swordsmen had taken some hits from the Americans and Iroquois. Didn't even have to declare war - just told them to get the heck off my lawn and they declared war on me. Got alliances with my other neighbors and went on the offensive

My knights quickly crushed what remained of their forces in my territory, then plunged south to take the fight to them. The Americans quickly bowed out of the fight, but the Iros and I have been making steady progress. The Aztec territory is large but the cities are falling one-by-one. As predicted, I am getting most of the spoils. I didn't realize this before but the Aztecs did have horses, so I was able to free myself from the Americans' highway robbery.

At this point we are getting close to the 1400s and the Babylonians I am leading are becoming the pre-eminent power on the continent. I've grabbed a small tech lead, been able to grab a couple key Middle Age wonders, and use a great leader to rush the Forbidden Palace in my southern territory. That did wonders for productivity and with much jungle destruction those cities are finally coming on line.

The Aztecs are less over half their territory and declining. Their capital is totally isolated so they can't build anything worthwhile. It's been a long war, but the Iros have been with me throughout. Plus, it hasn't really hurt my science gain at all, as my empire is getting so large my city improvement production is strong overall. Plus. knight casualties have been low so I haven't needed a major mobilization.

The goals now are to remove a few more cities from Aztec control, and finally take their capital, as with two wonders it is a major cultural center. At that point they will be reduced to irrelevancy, I can switch to Democracy and let my potentially huge industrial base deter any future rivals. The only real issue right now is keeping America polite until that happens, as I still can't afford a two-front war. So far, things are moving along.

BinkleyYaz

 

[Moulton]

Be aggressivly defensive. I see no way for my to win by culture, since the France and Russian were far ahead of me when I discovered them. Cant play catchup, since their cities continuously add to their culture. Have to demolish them. I did enough to get myself even, but cant win unless I go to war. I kicked out Egypt, but left her to her own land.... when she finally agreed to talk peace, she said, " You are evil and bloodthirsty. WHat do you want?"
She probably will not vote for me in the UN, and England feels the same way. They strickly avoid my borders, now, but they probably would not vote for me.
I took a russian city contolling dyes, and gave it to France--I would not have been ableto hold it, and she craved the luxuries... But RUssia is not a friend. So, I am left with one option: conquer. When Tanks come on line....
I keep my cavalry, since they take out the older units--spearsmen and archers with rarely a loss. Tanks lose to ancient units, but roll over cav and knights. My plan then, is to roll over Russia. Her cities will be useless, but they are the basis of score... to win by any scoring you have to have the most territory and population.