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Into the Renaissance and Islam

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by Lyoncet, Jul 10, 2012.

  1. MaximusK

    MaximusK Warlord

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2011
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    Location:
    New Mexico
    Incredibly easy to win on Emperor with Turks. The last 30 turns were just waiting for victory and with turns times I was bored (but wanted the achievement). It turns out the achievement for getting Constantinople is on Deity!. So the only achievement I got for my Emperor victory was for beating the scenario.

    This is what worked for me.

    Objective #1: Take Jerusalem and Mecca while building core cities in Levant (Eastern Mediterranean). Secure as much iron as possible. Make sure to build a good production port city to build caravels later. Aim for by 50 turns.

    Objective #2: Neutralize Saladin. This may or may not involve taking Cairo. I did and was building roads through Anatolia at a lightning pace. Raze a few of his cities. Aim for by 100 turns.

    Objective #3 (concurrently w/ #2). Secure naval supremacy of Aegean and Eastern Mediterranean. I found planting a city in the Aegean as a waystation to be incredibly helpful. Steal dromons to upgrade later to frigates.

    Objective #4: Take Constantinople and any key ports. Send caravels to the New World. By around turn 120.

    Objective #5: Neutralize Genghis Kahn and the Black Sea.

    Objective #6: Chew on Austria until victory.

    Social Policy: I took Liberty/Honor and part of Rationalism (to buy GS). My last SP was one point in Autocracy for the +1 happiness per city (or was it order?, whichever)

    Science: I beelined Universities then Navigation/Exploration then the bottom of the tree for UUs.

    I should try this on Deity for the achievement. But not for A LONG time considering how annoying the turn times were.
     
  2. Yzman

    Yzman Deity

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    I am going to try to win as Catherine now which seems like it will be a chore. Any advice on getting the achievement?
     
  3. Mesix

    Mesix One of Porg

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    I had the most fun with a truly epic scale war playing as Catherine. I went Liberty right away so I had two settlers which I sent west towards the Baltic coast. I settled one north of the city states and the other south. I then back filled my empire building about 8 cities total arranged in a circle. Once I had set up, it was a matter of cranking out troops (about 120 in my military at the end of the game) and conquering Europe.

    I had Sweden DOW early in the game and Mongolia DOW before I was ready to invade Europe. I ended up taking about 6 Mongolian cities on the way to his capital to create a puppet empire as a buffer from my core. Since the Catholics aggressively converted many of my cities, I was able to build Catholic missionaries to travel with my army to convert Mongol cities before conquering to get some victory points out of them.

    I ended the game in full control of Sweden and most of the Netherlands (including geographical Denmark who is not in the scenario) which I had taken with a massive navy built in the Baltic sea. My troops were right outside Vienna at the end of the game having taken most of the Austrian empire. My navy was in position to also take London, but I had gotten peace with Elizabeth some turns earlier and decided that I didn't need the distraction at the end of the game.

    My social policies were Liberty, Honor, Commerce, and I had opened Autocracy (a massive and much needed :) bonus towards the end of the game). I opened Honor early for the :c5culture: bonus from barbarians. I then finished Liberty (free GS settled outside Moscow for :c5science:) and took the right side of Commerce for the :c5gold: and :) benefits before finishing Honor.

    I hope this helps.
     
  4. Yzman

    Yzman Deity

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    So go on a full scale conquering spree of Europe. I had a feeling this was going to be hard. In other news, I believe my game glitched up when I started it. There is one civ that has 0 troops and the Mongols are no where to be found...I am wondering if they failed to load for some reason.

    Edit: I finally found a Mongol City, old Sarai, but it appeared somewhere I had already explored. Do the Mongols settle later in the game than normal?
     
  5. Scarpa

    Scarpa Prince

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2010
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    I'm about 90 turns into the same strategy with (Emperor) Saladin, have Cairo kicking out LS or Xbows every third turn and those fast workers building roads right under my army for instant trade routes. Map seems absolutely massive but at least annexing is easy for rush buying with my huge religious GPT. Very fun scenario.
     
  6. Mesix

    Mesix One of Porg

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    You don't necessarily have to go on a full scale invasion of Europe. You don't really need to take very many cities to get the necessary victory points to win. They just have to be of a different religion. Even city states of Catholic religion will net you victory points. You could take 4-5 cities over and then turtle your way to victory. You might want to crank out a few caravels to sail to the new world to both capture those points and to deny them to one of your opponents.

    I personally think the full scale invasion of Europe is much more fun though!
     
  7. iggymnrr

    iggymnrr Deity

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    It was Antwerp for me. Quiet game until then too.
     
  8. meteo63

    meteo63 Chieftain

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    Jun 14, 2007
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    I haven't played this scenario yet, but MadDjinn's Russia LP is making me think it might be a good idea. But before I do there are a few questions that I'd like to ask about how it works...

    1) What should I expect regarding turn times? My computer can handle a large map pretty well but encounters slow-downs in the end-game--I'm talking regular games here. How is this scenario in that regard?

    2) How does one convert to Protestantism (so that taking Catholic cities gives VPs)? What strategy is good for making the most of it?

    3) When is it a good idea to go after people of the same religion? And related, how to start in Europe, where the civs are all of the same religion, or as Saladin who starts next to two other Islamic civs?

    4) MD's LP shows that rushing Steel for Longswords is a viable strategy for a conquering civ. But does rushing astronomy or education or other stuff in the upper part of the tech tree lock us out of having a decent land army, or does the science boost turn things around?
     
  9. MadDjinn

    MadDjinn Deity

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    It depends on your mid-late game aims and your neighbours.

    You can go Education/Exploration (use Oxford for Exploration or Navigation) and ship off a bunch of caravels (if you're coastal) and hit Acoustics to kick off Protestantism earlier. After that, tech into the military techs and finish off with a war. It should work, as long as you aren't being pressed into wars when you can't fight them (Ie, Gunpowder units vs. swords/pikes).

    RAs still unlock at Education, so if you can get the gold for a few RAs you can use them to catch back up in the military techs.
     
  10. SuperTechmarine

    SuperTechmarine Chieftain

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    Location:
    European Union
    Mongols should not be Eastern Orthodox, they should be Muslims (3 out of 4 Khanates embraced Islam, historically)
     
  11. Maxym

    Maxym King

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    Canada
    Thanks for letting me know, I went with Russia as my first try (Emp) at this and just picked a fight with Genghis. I needed cash for one more CS vote to get HRE title. I repulsed his first wave but didn't kill many keshiks they retreated. So he is short of melee units but still strong. Now time to build some cats and take his cities? Does he have different religion to everyone? His cities don't have any so I spread some RC with a captured missionary to make sure I get the benefit.
     
  12. Yzman

    Yzman Deity

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    He has no religion initially, but will probably get one rather quickly, most likely eastern orthodox.
     
  13. The_Quasar

    The_Quasar King

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    Oct 1, 2010
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    They aren't to begin with... but they usually seem to get converted to Orthodoxy.

    This seems to be a good fun scenario... not too easy (especially Russia, which I had the misfortune to get first time I tried it, on a random start!)... but not too difficult either...
     
  14. Maxym

    Maxym King

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    Yeah after taking one of their cities they ended up orthodox despite me spreading RC with captured missionaries. It was fairly easy to contain them, took cap and 4 or 5 cities and left them alone to stew in the Caucasus. T100

    Turned my army west and went after Austria as they were fighting Dutch and Swedes. Complete annihilation with blitzkrieg speed. Then Dutch, France and Spain. T170 I recall seeing someone post about blitz in CiV and this is the first instance where it felt like I was executing one. My march two tap Cossacks with their extra movement would penetrate deep behind enemy lines and take out anything outside of cities while few cannons, and crossbows would take down cities and siege LS would deliver final blow. Then I realized my Cossacks could do that as well and LS were mainly soaking up damage. Was a fun campaign.

    I considered going for domination and getting all caps but thought without navy I could not take on the island nations. Turns out building a navy was a breeze that late in the game, I was making enough to buy a privateer and a half per turn and used them to take over the coast of NW Africa prior to invading Almohads and later took London in 2 turns once part of my army made it back from Marrakech. The rest went on to invade Cairo, but it's only 7 turns left now and they are just landing.

    Part of my North sea fleet just broke through denmark as my invasion of Sweden has stalled without any naval support. I can see getting all the caps save for Cairo (maybe) and Turks. I didn't realize how much faster it would be to put my forces on boats and sail to Levant after taking Constantinople rather then slog through Asia minor as they are positioned to do now. Oh well live and learn, it was my first stab at this scenario.
     
  15. Pook

    Pook Bloviating

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    Location:
    Where Triton meets the Amish
    1) My computer does slow down a bit around turn 140, because of the huge map size. Not a showstopper, but noticeable.

    2) I haven't figured out how the Protestant Reformation works in this scenario. I played a few times as France, and mid-game I suddenly found city-states to my East that had 6 population, Protestant faith, and 400 and 384 religious pressure. That's not a typo, it was 400 and 384! My own (Catholic) cities started to convert quickly.

    3) Since it doesn't give extra victory points, I avoid it as much as possible. As France, Spain and the Netherlands kept starting wars with me. I played to hold them off, while concentrating my forces for a drive on Vatican City and then Jerusalem.

    4) I have found that the conventional G&K strategy of going for National College, followed by going for Education and building universities, works pretty well. There is a rough spot in there when others have large armies and you have a few composite bowmen and pikemen while you're still researching Education. If you can get past that, it's smooth sailing afterward.

    To get back to the Original Poster's point, I don't know what to do with all the extra faith as an Islamic civ. Lately I've been playing as the Turks, and I regularly have over 3000 :c5faith: and nothing to spend it on. I've built all the mosques I can, I can't buy units, and I can't buy Great Scientists (even with Rationalism open) until I've already maxed out the tech tree. All that I can spend :c5faith: on is inquisitors to remove Orthodoxy from formerly Byzantine cities, and missionaries to spread Islam to them.
     
  16. Heretiv

    Heretiv Warlord

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    Location:
    UK
    Grrr.. I have had 2 tries at Russia in this now and not doing great.
    The second try I put together some troops to defend against the Mongol, but I think I will be trounced.
    Maybe time to try as a simpler Civ.

    Also I tried opening Patronage and Honour - to get good city state relations and also bonus culture from taking out the raging barbs. It has made expanding my cities slower - was this wise?
    It is on Emperor - maybe I need to to keep going and see if I can contain the Mongols - I think it I could take their cities I will be ok. Not sure if composite bow and swordmen will do it. Maybe better to try again with a national college - in order to get up to crossbow and trebucht for attacking?
     
  17. zxcvbob

    zxcvbob Emperor

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    I'm playing this scenario for the first time, as Saladin at Prince-level. (I probably should be playing at King or Emperor.) SP's were Tradition and Honor openers, eventually filled both trees (Honor first), then into Rationalism. 130 turns in, I just captured the last Byzantine city and on my next turn I finish researching Chemistry and can upgrade my trebuchets and start spamming cannons.

    Spent the first half of the game at war with the Turks; it would've been nice to be allies with them, but Suleiman seemed to hate me even more than he hated the Christians, and I had to go through his cities to get to Europe.

    Constantinople was a tough nut to crack because of the terrain; I had a huge army but could not get them into position, and also could not rotate out badly injured units. Also her huge swarm of dromons was majorly annoying. I lost a highly-promoted crossbow and somewhat-promoted treb. When I did finally capture it, Theodora captured it right back, then I captured it again, and we traded back and forth until it was down to 1-pop and she failed to take it; I annexed the next turn and bought walls and a castle, then it was safe. I also converted it to Islam with an inquisitor, but I'm not sure that really does anything (doesn't Constantinople lose it's holy city status when captured?) Now I need to capture a Catholic city so I can buy an army with all my excess faith.

    Several of my cities are on gold production for lack of anything better to do. Probably should start building units to protect my backside (western Africa.) A lot can go wrong in 70 turns.

    I'll try one of the European civs or Almohad next time.
     
  18. Volcanon

    Volcanon Warlord

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    The muslims can conquor byzantine pretty easily for big points (you may have to crush Turkey to get there first though - they sometimes hate you after you conquor Mecca and Jerusalem). Eastern Europe is mostly a cakewalk too. Send an army to capture Rome for big points too. You have almost no worries of getting invaded (unlike, say Austria or Russia) so there is less of an issue with defence. Just put your money into trebs and ships and stuff.

    The other religions aren't really much better than Islam, though I like the eight hammers from protestantism.

    It would have been nice if you did not have to build cities. It's not like the world was empty in this era of history.
     
  19. zxcvbob

    zxcvbob Emperor

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    20 turns left to go. A lot is happening in western Africa, but I don't think it can reach Cairo before the game is over.

    I have 2 caravels built; one is waiting at the Strait of Gibraltar and the other is almost there. None of the AI's have gotten the New World bonus yet. I'm going to have to declare war on Bouddica to pass because she won't sell me open borders. (not sure whether to try to capture her city or just ignore it) I haven't tried demanding open borders; not much chance it'll work but maybe I can bully her w/o declaring war.

    Spain or France could hurt me, but I don't think anyone else can, and I'm friends with France (and they are far away.) Spain is busy fighting with Almohad. Suleiman is getting belligerent again but I don't think he's a threat; the worst he could do if I underestimate him is recapture Aleppo, and that's where I built Broadway -- but I doubt it (it's pretty defensible; I'd just get a lot of gold for killing his units.) Maybe I should pay the Mongols to attack him... Nah.

    I have tons of faith and gold, and nothing really to spend them on. I've been buying lots of privateers lately, just in case.

    This map is so huge, my computer (laptop) keeps overheating and crashing.

    ETA: I paid Bouddica a huge amount of gold (7000?) and 100 GPT and 3 luxuries for open borders and got both my caravels to the western edge in time to claim the first 2 New World bonuses. A couple of turns later, France got the 3rd and 4th. If I had DoW'd, I doubt the caravels could have gotten thru the strait because ZOC. It France had gotten the first two New World bonuses and I didn't get any, they might have won.

    Also, it occurred to me (*finally*) that since I had no hope of allying any of the CS's for more than a turn or two, I might as well conquer a high-population CS of a different religion -- a lot of points for that. CS's are tough, but they can't pull in reinforcements from another city, so they are actually a lot easier to capture than major AI cities.

    This was a fun scenario; I'll play it again, in spite of the frequent PC crashes.
     
  20. Makenshi

    Makenshi Ahoy, ye salty dogs!

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Brasil
    I'm sorry, I'm SO sorry but I simply HAVE to raise this one. The guys who posted probably won't see this even if they're still around, and even then who knows if they'll care, but "the light of Islamic truth" (in Civ 5 ITR, at least :lol: ) must be made to shine here, Allahu Akbar.

    Let me tell what you guys could have done with those thousands of faith: after buying mosques, convert each and every one of your cities - except maybe for the capital - to both catholicism and orthodoxy, then buy monasteries and cathedrals in them, and then go back to islam to make sure it is always the majority religion in you empire, in order to preserve the friendship with the other 2 civs of the Umma (and to keep the +4 faith per turn incoming).

    That's what tons of faith serves for, to give a huge amount of culture to rack social policies FAST and some extra happiness in order to keep the Jihad rolling. Just to recap:

    Mosques = 3 faith, 2 culture, 1 happy
    Cathedral = 3 culture, 1 faith, 1 happy, 1 artist slot (that's +3 faith, so a cathedral with artist is a whooping 6 culture per turn!)
    Monastery = 2 faith, 2 culture, +1 each per incense/wine

    TOTAL = 7/10 culture, 5 faith, 2 happiness AND THAT'S PER CITY.

    Plus, like some said, it never hurts to keep in 1 or 2 cities as catholic in order to faith-buy units just if and when needed, but I assure you that with the multiple conversions and purchases of religious buildings, you'll never have thousands of faith just floating without use.

    And here is another happiness tip (unrelated to faith, but worth mentioning): don't forget the +1 from stoneworks and + 2 from circuses; that means spots with at least 1 stone and/or 1 horses are always worth settling happiness-wise, especially if there is a river (aka: gold!). This is valid for all civs regardless of religion (as foretold).
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2017

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