Invading Overseas

gzollinger

Chieftain
Joined
Jan 2, 2002
Messages
24
INVADING OVERSEAS



The Problem
Typically when invading another island, my strategy involved taking over 5-6 boat loads of my best offensive and defensive units. I take over some city and use it as a base of operations. The trouble I was having was that the city very often flipped on me and I lost a very large piece of my military. Not to mention that you tend to lose a considerable chunk of your military hitting that big city with no (or little) air support and no ability to heal your units (or heal your units quickly). In the late game an invasion force would require huge numbers of expensive military just to land and take that first city.

The Solution
What I have been doing lately that was worked with a good deal of success is instead of loading a bunch of offensive units and taking the first town, I simply take mostly defensive units and a settler. I proceed to build my own city and use it as a base for operations. It will be as successful with half as many units as trying to take your first city.

Selecting Units
You want mostly defensive units and a few fast offensive units to counter attack any of his units left standing after the initial attack. Make sure to throw in a settler and you are ready to go. You will need only half the force you would normally take to overrun his first city. If you have them, 2 extra explorers will help a lot, because they can dash out and pillage the roads one square out from your sphere of influence and still make it back to the safety of the city. Here is a good breakdown, like I said, it is a small force:
3 galleons, settler, 8 riflemen, 3 cavalry – or -
2 transports, settler, 12 infantry, 3 tanks

Choosing a Location
The landing site is very important. I look for a space far away from any capitals, I shoot for a hill for the added defensive bonus, and if there is a resource that would help me (or hurt the computer to lose) that is a great bonus. Luckily, the good late game resources, which are so hard to come by, like Oil and Uranium, usually show up on a nations worst land. This tends to be where their newest and most worthless cities are. Also, if you can build as far away from his other cities, that will really help. Try to imagine what your sphere of influence is going to be when you build. If you can build by his crappy cities that don't have a lot of culture, then that gives you a bigger sphere, and an extra turn before he can hit you. Also consider railroads, if one side of his nation is all connected, build on the other side, it will take an extra turn or two for him to reach you. Don't worry about workable ground, this is a city that could stay size 1 and it won't make a difference.

The Attack
Make sure you have no units next to one of his cities or he will demand you leave or declare war. If this happens, it isn't too big a deal, you just will lose some units to his initial strike (but you are on a hill so it shouldn't be too bad. Chances are he will ask you to leave but not demand it. On your following turn you build a city and this puts you at war. The first improvement I build is a city wall. I usually pay for it without waiting the traditional 1 turn so it's cheaper. It is cheap anyway, so no harm done. When that is in place you will be getting a ton of bonus defense, the hill, the city, the wall, and the fact that your units are fortified. You should be able to hold off his initial offensive with 9-12 of your best defensive units. Next rush build an airport if you can, or if not that, then rush a Barracks. Now move in more units (via the airport or galleon), rebase bombers and have at it. The real advantage to this (over taking a city) is that the city won't flip easily, and after you knock out the closest cities, there is no chance it will flip. Don’t forget to add a temple and library in the next couple of turns. Once that city is built, you have the added benefit of having extra move on roads to counter attack the units he sends at you without leaving your mobile units exposed.

Summary
I tried this for the first time, when I didn’t have oil. In desperation I hatched this scheme to drop a city on top of the only oil source my biggest opponent had. I hoped that I would hold the city just long enough to build a harbor and build some decent units. It worked soooo well, that it has been an important part of my game ever since. I also have yet to have the city flip on me doing this and I have done it probably 6-8 times, and sometimes I am at the bottom of the pack in power and culture.
 
Excellent pointers!
While I do build my own cities in enemy land, I have never used this strategy for my 'beachhead' when invading.
As my current game (Marlas map - real start locations - my being China and set to invade North America) is leading to this situation, I will give it a shot.
Thanks.
 
That's essentially the strategy that I finally settled on using when invading overseas.

It's by far the best way to do things if you are in a democracy, because the city that you create is now 'your territory' as far as the game is concerned, and so you don't get lots of war weariness.

When I am choosing placement of the new city, I generally don't worry about how it relates to resources, unless it just happens to be convenient. I like building on coastal hills, so that if I want to land more troops they can be unloaded straight into my city.
 
This may be a strange thing, but usually, the first city I end up taking in their mainland is the CAPITAL!!!

Since I'll be a communist state when warring like this, if I take the capital, I'll wait until the resistance is quelled and whip the population to build temples and libraries. This not only reduces the population (and therefore the chance of flipping back), but it also forces your own culture right into their faces. Since they have a lot of irrigated grassland (usually), you can then use this to regrow the population with citizens of your own civilization. Just make sure you have the four defensive units in the city (as communism allows for a military police of four units).

I've used this strategy and so far, using the French, I have conquered Rome, Egypt, Germany, Persia and half of England without any flip-backs (on a standard random map). Each empire was considerably large (about 14 or so cities).

Striking their capital right away deals a blow to which they cannot possibly recover. It feels like I'm beheading a chook. Lop the head off and the rest of the body goes into disarray.

In another game as the Americans, when my 'gracious' ally the French sneak attacked me, I couldn't reach a peace treaty with them until I controlled Paris. I would then whip the 16 people in the city to rush a temple and library to force my American culture onto them and replace their population with Americans using their irrigated grasslands. The ironic thing is that their first city, the very centre of their cultural heritage was to become the outpost of an invading superpower in time. I was using that peace treaty to rebase all of my bombers and F-15s to the cities on their landmass that I had taken. I would also airlift more modern armour and mech. infantry to their former capital, now with a majority of the population being American nationals (they did put up a good fight, so I needed to be ready for another).
 
Won't work later in the game, can't build city within another culture border....cos by then his culture would encompass his landscape and into the sea as well.
Only few people go to war when horses and infantry are about and that too not on another continent.
 
Originally posted by icecoolbreeze
Won't work later in the game, can't build city within another culture border....cos by then his culture would encompass his landscape and into the sea as well.
Only few people go to war when horses and infantry are about and that too not on another continent.

Yes you can, unless this was changed in patch 1.17f. It just causes the other civ to declare war. This is one way I get him to declare, if all other means fail.
 
:goodjob:

Just what I do! Sometimes I even plunk down several cities with 3 or 4 defenders each. Rush Walls, Barracks, (Harbor/Airport), Temple - presto!

Especially effective if you can pop-rush - bring workers to join. Or, bring cheap throwaway units and disband to get the gold price down!

The AI will throw al it`s offensive power against the beachhead, then keep producing defenders only.
 
sealman is right. You can plop the city down inside his cultural boarder. It simply forces you into war, but there is nothing stoping you from doing it. I wasn't sure it would let me the first time I tried it, but it worked.
 
killer, I have avoided adding more population to the city via settlers. My fear is that the city would more likely flip as the population grows. I guess if you make sure everyone of the citizens ALLWAYS remains happy, it shouldn't make a difference. I have wondered about this alot, anyone know if all things are equal except the city is size five (all happy), instead of one. Is the city more or less likely to flip? I guess the other thing is if the city is size one and sitting in tundra and mountains real close to other larger cityies, if the city tried to flip maybe the other civ would rebuff the rebels. I have had this happen a couple of times, and it always seems to happen with a size one city sitting in the middle of jungle or something like that. Something to consider.
 
I tried this the other day and it worked surprisingly well once you have Flight and are headed towards modern times.

Okay, so you've fought off the other civs on your continent and claimed it as your own. You decide to go for a domination victory and invade the other continent, but shepherding transports around are a pain.

Preparation: Take your top tank-producing cities and have them each spend the few turns it takes to make an airport.

After you've got that first beachhead established (probably through methods described here), rush build an airport at the conquered city. You can only airlift one unit at a time, but when you have a good number of your cities with airports, you get into a zone -- hit 'T' as each new tank shows up, and transport it to your new airport to reinforce your invasion.

Not really necessary on smaller maps when you don't have a lot of water to cross, but on larger ones when you're spending a turn to load, 2+ turns to cross, a turn to unload... gets the troops in position faster.
 
Originally posted by gzollinger
killer, I have avoided adding more population to the city via settlers.

gzollinger: I do keep it at size 1, but being despotic or commie it is often usefull to rush buildings - and then you have to do it that way. What I do is join the guys and rush the same turn. Walls, Barracks, Temple, Harbor. Takes 1 to 3 workers each, depending on special antional traits (religious/commercial) and whether or not I have useless units to disband to make rushing cheaper. I often use captured workers like this:

City is size 1. I want to rush barrakcs. I have 1 own worker, 1 foreign of which I`d have to join both to the city so I can rush barracks from 0 prod. Instead, I disband a captured worker, then join 1 of my own, then rush. Better then joining both, since I might get the foreigner to stay as the remaining city population - increased flip risk.
 
Originally posted by Killer


gzollinger: I do keep it at size 1, but being despotic or commie it is often usefull to rush buildings - and then you have to do it that way. What I do is join the guys and rush the same turn. Walls, Barracks, Temple, Harbor. Takes 1 to 3 workers each, depending on special antional traits (religious/commercial) and whether or not I have useless units to disband to make rushing cheaper. I often use captured workers like this:

City is size 1. I want to rush barrakcs. I have 1 own worker, 1 foreign of which I`d have to join both to the city so I can rush barracks from 0 prod. Instead, I disband a captured worker, then join 1 of my own, then rush. Better then joining both, since I might get the foreigner to stay as the remaining city population - increased flip risk.

This is thought of as being an Exploit and is not allowed in the GOTM's. (To join workers and settlers and them use them to pop-rush)

Just wanted people to know.
 
Originally posted by Grey Fox


This is thought of as being an Exploit and is not allowed in the GOTM's. (To join workers and settlers and them use them to pop-rush)

Just wanted people to know.

yep, wouldn`t do that in GOTM
Ther, Id join them to get the increase in normal production and then simply wait it out and pray.....
 
Well building in his cultural Border does not constitute sportmanship, if the AI wanted to he could have built cities on every tile in your cultural border at the start game when it goes building all over, further more I don't think building a beachhead with a city is really realisitic.
when I tried building in AI cultural border it did not allow me...I never tried it after that...did it change with the patches?
I'm using 1.16....you can all guess why.

:)

ice
 
Originally posted by icecoolbreeze
Well building in his cultural Border does not constitute sportmanship, if the AI wanted to he could have built cities on every tile in your cultural border at the start game when it goes building all over, further more I don't think building a beachhead with a city is really realisitic.
when I tried building in AI cultural border it did not allow me...I never tried it after that...did it change with the patches?
I'm using 1.16....you can all guess why.

:)

ice

You can build cities inside their border (but you have to declare war), and when you do... consider them as Military Bases. Only when the nearby cities has been razed or captured should you consider the city... as a city.
 
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