Discussion in 'Civ4 - Succession Games' started by IdiotsOpposite, Apr 21, 2010.
BTW, lost track, who's next, meow?
The last turn order that was posted:
So, neil just went, this must mean that it's my turn!
Shine Save GET!
The Colbert Report!
I moved a Spawnbuster chariot on the small peninsula to gain better coverage.
Alex founds Argos... Are we gonna see Jason and the Argonauts any time soon?
Hamsterdam, Idiotsburgh, and Justiciaria all start on Axes.
Toku adopts HR.... oh $#!^ he has monarchy
I looked at the foreign advisor.. all the warmongers are pleased with eachother, and three of them are buddhist. This bloc is not good for us... unless we become part of it.
A worker at Justiciaria starts a cottage.
The workboat built in Justiciaria begins its journey to Neiliopolis to grab those clams because thats the only purpose I can see for the damn thing.
Workers at Idiotsburgh begin to connect the ivory.
I MM Justiciaria so that it doesn't grow into unhappiness.
Gandhi has stone in his borders. It's not connected yet, but he's working on it... Do I smell a wondermonger?
Gandhi has one more city than I thought:
A worker at The Matrix starts a cottage.
A worker at Neiliopolis starts a cottage.
Alphabet is in: CLASSICAL AGE!
I start researching Aesthetics so that we can trade it to everyone.
Since we can trade techs now, I have a look-see at the Foreign Advisor again.
Everybody except Ragnar wants something from us:
This means that Ragnar already has Alphabet.
So, I go see Qin, see what he wants for Writing:
...Mysticism. Hell no.
Female dog doesn't wanna give us anything for Alpha, screw 'im.
Neither does Shaka. B-but, I thought we were Furry Friends!?
Our buddy Alex pulls through with Archery and Iron Working for Alphabet! I know it's not an even beaker trade, but Ragnar already has Alpha, and since we just screwed over his monopoly, we might as well get something out of it - else he will.
How fitting. The city named after our resident warmonger has the Iron.
Well, since the Ivory is all connected up,
I go and MM Justiciaria once again, to let it grow now since it has room.
I love Alphabet. Hamsterdam finishes its axe and starts on research.
Hmm. Ainu. Too bad it's nowhere near Toku, then I'd have a bit of a chuckle.
Some workers at Idiotsburgh start on a couple mines and a cottage.
Shaka's got iron o noes D:
Gandhi founda Varanasi. It is beside Idiotsburgh. FEMALE DOG IS INFRINGING ON OUR BORDERS.
More Alpha love, Idiotsburgh finishes its axe and starts on research.
A worker at Justiciaria starts to work on that Iron
A worker at Neiliopolis starts on a cottage.
I also have a bit of a WTF moment with the workboat. I tell it to go north through the diagonal, but it traces a path AROUND the peninsula. I tell it to stop that TAUROS DROPPINGS.
Uh oh, our scouting warrior runs into some barb trouble...
IS THIS THE END OF HIM?
It is not.
Justiciaria finishes its axe and starts on research.
MMed Justiciaria a third time, this time to make it grow slower. It will grow one turn after the whip anger goes away.
The Matrix finishes its axe and starts research. Don't expect it to be good research, I suck at studying
Hinduism spreads to Idiotsburgh. Screw that crap.
More Workboat WTF: I try again to make it go through the diagonal, this time clicking the tile directly to the northeast of the tile the WB was at (beside the chariot) instead of the next tile ahead of that; it still traces a path around the whole damn peninsula. I swore that boats could cross diagonals like that. Apparently workboats can't. Looks like Neiliopolis won't get its clams any time soon.
Aesthetics comes in 6 thanks to all the research we're doing!
Damned ing thing ing censoring all my ing swears put me ing over the ing image limit with the ton of smilies it ing generated.
I hate filters.
I'm confused, maybe i missed something, but why so much military? We had quite a few spawn busters in place I thought. Are we preparing for war??? With Gandhi?
Well, I was just making defenders that, ya know, actually get fortification bonuses.
But since the bastard settled right beside Idiotsburgh, I'd consider beating him up.
Maybe even steal a wonder or two if he builds any.
I still don't agree with having the extra defenders. I really believed we had enough. And you can't forget that the AI can spawn bust for you, if you use his proximity. I really thought we could used another settler. This is not in hindsight, but in general. If you still haven't secured your borders, then that should still be a priority when the AI is steadily expanding towards you.
Oh well, what's done is done, maybe start a phony war, raze two cities and make some cash?
Yeah, hell, maybe we can get Shaka and/or Ragnar in it too, get some diplo bonuses with them.
Brian - Up
FGJ - On deck
Matrix - Just went
Taking a look at the save:
1) I will assume Shaka will attempt to expand south towards us along the west coast; AIs hate large tracts of desert as Gandhi has proven.
2) We have yet to seal our borders
3) Gandhi could expand his 6th city in between Idiotsburgh and Neiliopolis even though IB will get the 3rd border pop in 3 turns.
4) So many CGs... and we don't have HR... if defense or prevention was the goal, not needed. We are (rather were) far from the psychos' borders and we haven't refused demands. We would not have been selected even though power would have suffered. Gandhi has the ultra hate from Shaka, and Gandhi has nothing but archers. We have nothing to fear. Those hammers to me were wasted and should have gone into 1 settler and 2 workers.
5) We seriously need to discuss before turn sets again. There's no rush to play a turnset. I truly feel we lacked communication in the last set or two. We need to bring back the yak fest
Matrix, forgive me, I'm not trying to attack you and I'm really sorry that if it came off as such. I'm just trying to analyze and provide constructive criticism from my viewpoint, knowing that noble to monarch is a big jump. You're bound to make mistakes like we all did, I'm only trying to give you advice on the higher learning curve
Plus I'm still a little pissed at my Phillies this year. Injuries and inconsistency on offense and lack of pitching depth has been eating away at me for the last few weeks.
Mmm, yeah, I agree about communication. I didn't really see anything like a "oh we should do this" on the past few pages so I winged it.
Another plus for going to war against Gandhi: We can grind his Delhi meat!
I can understand this. I got super busy of late personally. Still, it's a habit we should get back into
May the moose attack you
Well, I think this game is supposed to be fun. God know the SGOTM will take a long time, because we will have endless discussions before, during and after each persons turnset.
My 2 cents: We should definitely have taken Mysticism for Writing. This gives us a free tech ater all, and it will give us a bonus for trading. As the trade is nowhere near equal, it will probably go straight to the maximum +4.
The plan with Tech trading is you _always_ swap techs that are a few techs behind the current tech for lesser techs.
Gandhi would probably give us 2 techs for the 2 techs he wanted.
Toku would give us Mysticism for Writing.
Then get IW from anybody (preferably Ragnar's best friend) for Alpha.
Trading with Gandhi would is a bad idea, seeing as he's the worst enemy of Shaka and Ragnar, and probably will be the worst enemy of everyone else once they meet him.
As for Mysticism, I don't think trading for it is a good idea, I mean it's a starter tech, we can research that quickly and it opens up two paths, which I would call worth trading for.
You are right that we would suffer a negative for trading with their enemy, but this does not last forever. Also, if you look at the Power graph, we have more than Shaka, so he won't be attacking us anytime soon. The same goes for the other AI's.
Giving 1 AI Writing for a starter tech is OK, we still have Alphabet to trade for the next tech, by which time we will have researched something again.....
I understand your reasoning, but think of it this way, if we trade 1 AI Writing for Mysticism, we do not need to research Mysticism at all, and we can concentrate researching something better. Even if it only takes 2 turns to research Mysticism, it is still 2 turns wasted that we have not used to start researching something good.
Trust me. Have a read of some of the GOTM final spoilers, the 'best' players talk about the 'waste of time techs'. They mean Sailing, Hunting, Archery, Horseback Riding......
Ok I've got the save, and I've had a look at it.
First off we definitely need a settler or two, I can squeeze one out of Hamsterdam in 9 turns and one out of the Matrix in 10 (no whip). With our extra CG we don't need cover.
Second I looked at a few of the extras you get with BUG:
War wise we are good to go against Shaka, he won't have any counter to cataphants with mace suppport once we get there. We don't have proper intel on anyone else (due to me directing our spies against Shaka) but the only person that matters until a long time from now is Gandhi. Notice all our threat sits are estimated except Gandhi. Thats because of espionage below.
Gandhi is enemy of both Ragnar and Shaka, but only Ragnar is enemy of Gandhi. We are neutral with everybody. To remedy this we need the Buddha (perfect hippie religion).
Spys wise we have demographics on Shaka (and are 2 EPs away from tech), once we get the tech on Shaka, we should split back on Gandhi, as he is the likely first target. After we DoW Gandhi, I'd prefer to put his EP share to Toku (as he's the craziest).
I would suggest pulling settler out of at least Hamsterdam, and a settler or worker out of the Matrix. I would go north, as we want to close the border against Shaka (let him get proximity - against Ragnar). We need to get the Buddha, so I would open borders with Qin and close them with Gandhi, and convert on the first city spread.
On tech we are at Aesth -6 turns, and I assume we are going for Lit and GLib in Hamsterdam (must build this one if we want it). After that I would go Currency (we need the money)>Maths>MC>Machinery>Const. to set us up the bomb., followed by a declaration on Gandhi (2 holy cities and probably a few juicy wonders).
If we war with Gandhi, invite both Ragnar and Shaka (if we can afford it) but ensure Bombay and Delhi are ours (probably better to wait on this so he can build shrines). After that build up on Shaka.
On military, we are all right for now but we will be going into prod mode at some stage (beyond my turnset).
I reckon we still have to meet someone, so don't be surprised if there's another continent out there. I'm not too sure on this though (don't usually look at no. of opponents).
Sounds good. The first settler, most important for me, goes to plug in gap with the grassland/jungle in between Hamsterdam and Idiotsburgh to stop Gandhi's expansion. Second settler should go NW to prevent Shaka from invading too much towards us, the closer NW spot NOT the one closest to him. Allow Shaka to grab our most NW city spot, which he will probably get, and that's fine let him have that - get buddhism faster potentially.
A few more workers to keep up with our expansion and we need to chop those jungles. We'll be at 7 cities, which by 1AD means we're doing alright. This means 11 workers, maybe 12 because we have so much jungle.
During/after teching Lit, let's hope the AIs tech the unlocked alpha techs or MC, so be on the lookout for some trades.
Definitely move the extra CGs to the two new cities, whereever they are going to be. We don't need any more military at this point. However with iron in Justiciaria's BFC, a swordcataphant army alone can do quite a bit of damage to Gandhi. Waiting for maces, timing wise, might be a little too late. I forsee an army build uptimed around post GLib being built. By that point, we need to have all our resource tiles improved, more cottages built, and a lot of jungle chopped. I'm predicting 35 turns from now we can start raising an army.
I think the swataphant army looks horrifying enough without waiting for maces. I will wait until tomorrow to play, as we seem to have hit a discussion lag and need to focus. So that means, you'll have another 18 hours (about) to pick apart my plan.
I agree about next settler to close the gap between the cities. It gets rice & 2 sugar IIRC.
After that, I am thinking next settler goes South of Hamsterdam. Nice and close to our core, with lots of cottageable grassland. We also want to settle our peninsula.
The spots to the north are just unnattractive. Let Shaka settle them and put in the infrastructure. We have so much jungle to chop that we wont be developing our cities very well.
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