Iran is One Year away from the bomb!

[PersianBoy]

Iran and Russia gone to war in past and Russia take Azarbaijan, Turkmensatn, Tajikstan and other territories from Iran
most ppl of Iran trust USA more than Russia

 

[Photi]

While I dont doubt that the USA would come to Saudi aid if requested, you cant deny that the Saudi military is indeed formidable as a regional power in of itself....it is full of the best equipment their money can buy and their officers are often trained in professional schools in the UK and USA.

They are more than capable to defend themselves without the aid of the USA. In that regard, they are most certainly not a sham government.

i agree, the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia is not a sham gov't, they do have to continue to secure their legitimacy, and that is something that is not guaranteed and is an internal matter . oil money and the rentier state make that infinitely more viable. the fact of the matter is that the wahabbi movement of the 18thC had some success for awhile, but Muhammad ibn abd al-wahab eventually lost his attempt at what he thought was the reformation of Islam. He lost due to the fact that the Muslims in the Arabian peninsula believed his version of Islam was much too strict and that it left out many important ideas in Islam, not the least of which are mercy and compassion. muhammad ibn abd al-wahab was actually captured by the Egyptian Muhammad Ali (who was under Ottoman tutelage) and sent to Constantinople and was beheaded there. At that time in history, the Ottomans were the Caliphate and held the 'authoritative' voice of Sunni Islam. abd al-wahab's partner in crime, the first Ibn Saud, went into exile (Kuwait i think) where his descendants remained until the british began supplying them with arms to try to take control of the peninsula. i would have to go back to look at the details, but the brits were grooming a couple of possible rulers of the Arabian penninsula (to counter Ottoman power), the Saudis are who they ultimately went with. by the time the descendant of Ibn Saud, the second Ibn Saud, took control of the hijaz (most importantly Mecca and Medina) the Saudi's agreement with the leftover followers of muhammad ibn abd al-wahab was more or less still in effect, and those wahabbi 'reformed' Muslims became the Saudi ulema (religious establishment) and assumed responsibility for the moral regulation of society and the house of as-Saud took control of the affairs of state. to this day that agreement still exists in a sometimes delicate balance, and is the main group the Saudi family has to continue to make sure to remain 'legitimate' with. mostly they do this by using the oil money to modernize the state as well as to make sure the social welfare of KSA citizens is taken care of. more extreme elements of this version of Islam eventually broke away and could not be considered part of the Saudi ulema. their break came in the '80's during the Soviet-Afghanistan war. With the help and training of the Americans and led by Osama bin Ladin this break-away group became 'the Base', or Al-Qaeda (looked at by the amercians as a counter to soviet power) who eventually went on to inspire another group in Afghanistan who became known as the Taliban. but our (american) myopic view of history lets us get away with not paying attention those juicy little details.

part of the US security guarantees toward the KSA come in the form of training and weapons. i disagree about the US not coming to the Saudi's aid, however. what do you think the first Gulf war was about? Kuwait was looked at as the first stop of Saddam's army and the KSA were shaking in their knees. they basically left it to the Americans to neuter the monster the Americans helped to create. Saddam existed on his own accord in Iraq, but his army was quite modern by middle eastern standards due to the Western support and supply during Saddam's war of aggression against Iran. Americans might not like to hear it, and usually ignore these facts by saying something like 'oh yeah, blame america for everything', but history is history and it effects the present and has a lot to do with the current mess the middle east is in at the moment.

 

[Photi]

Did you know Iran imports about 40% of its gasoline....?

If they want more domestic energy, it would be far quicker and cheaper for Iran to simply improve its own domestic refining--which currently lags far behind its oil production.

So the explanation that Iran is looking for more energy doesn't work out.

fossil fuels are a horrible way to acquire electricity. very dirty and iran especially tehran has major pollution problems. it is quite believable that they are looking for a cleaner source of energy. they don't hav ethe sort of rivers that could provide for enough electricity to a country the size of Iran.

 

[Photi]

Russia has offered to provide the fissonable material. Why does Iran need to produce its own depleted uranium if the world is willing to loan them as much as they need (for that particular type of reactor), at the cost of inspections? Can't they just use reactors that do not reaquire depleted uranium?

it is called sovereignty and independence. iran's isolation after the revolution has caused it to be the most self-suffficeint nation in the region, and they see this as key to their survival. so does the US, that's why we want to keep them down technologically. we the US need ppl to need us, that's our whole strategy, intellectually bankrupt as it is.

 

[Photi]

BTW, according to related Internation Organization Rules and other Protocols, any country could develop and try to enrich Un for peacefull aims and nobody could prove that Iran have other aims than Energy

Under the NPT, this is true. Iran is also signatory to the Addtional Protocol to the NPT, which prohibits enrichment. Iran can withdraw its voluntary agreement to the additional protocol to the NPT (which also includes more stringent inspection standards) and then they can enrich Uranium themselves and still be in agreement to the NPT.


Iran has the entirety of the 20th C to learn from to know that they cannot trust any other nation. If I were Iran I too would be trying to enrich uranium. In technological prestige it is a big step forward in terms of how it is looked at by other nations.

And lets look at this from a sober perspective. How many wars has Iran started in the last 100 years? the only aggression i can think of is when Reza Pahlavi was becoming shah and he took territories up by the Caspian. but then those territorities are traditionally persian anyway, and only left immediate control of Iran when the Qajars fell.

Conversely, how many wars has the US started in the last 100 years? who's the aggressor? who's the one to worry about?

 

[PersianBoy]

And lets look at this from a sober perspective. How many wars has Iran started in the last 100 years? the only aggression i can think of is when Reza Pahlavi was becoming shah and he took territories up by the Caspian. but then those territorities are traditionally persian anyway, and only left immediate control of Iran when the Qajars fell.

Conversely, how many wars has the US started in the last 100 years? who's the aggressor? who's the one to worry about?

which war you talking about?
which country Reza Pahlavi started to attack?
in that time northern niebour of Iran was USSR and if we attack them, Iran will be a complete loser.

 

[BasketCase]

fossil fuels are a horrible way to acquire electricity. very dirty and iran especially tehran has major pollution problems. it is quite believable that they are looking for a cleaner source of energy. they don't hav ethe sort of rivers that could provide for enough electricity to a country the size of Iran.

Two words for ya: nuclear waste.

 

[Photi]

which war you talking about?
which country Reza Pahlavi started to attack?
in that time northern niebour of Iran was USSR and if we attack them, Iran will be a complete loser.

actually, i had it a little wrong, i thought the qajars fell w/the constitutional revolution of '08 or whenever it was, and then as that began failing i thought Reza organized an army to seize control and consolidate his power, and I thought there was some resistence from northern tribes up by the Caspian. it didn't happen exactly this way, as it was a british organzied coup d'etat that helped him gain control with little resistance. which only underscores my point even further, that Iran has a lot of history to prove it is a peaceful nation.

 

[Quiet Sound]

Two words for ya: nuclear waste.

I for one prefer barrels of nuclear waste to this:

Spoiler :

 

[Fëanor]

Under the NPT, this is true. Iran is also signatory to the Addtional Protocol to the NPT, which prohibits enrichment. Iran can withdraw its voluntary agreement to the additional protocol to the NPT (which also includes more stringent inspection standards) and then they can enrich Uranium themselves and still be in agreement to the NPT.

I Believe that the NPT Protocol only says that the IAEA can make "random, unannounced inspections" to ensure that Iran is not enriching Uranium to weapons-grade needed for an nuclear weapon, however it does not prohibit the enrichment of uranium to nuclear fuel grade needed for their Nuclear Reactors.

 

[BasketCase]

I for one prefer barrels of nuclear waste to this:
<photo snipped--the focus was real cloudy anyway>

And lots of other people greatly prefer the smog over the nuclear waste.

Realistically, I'll venture a wild guess that the Iranian government doesn't care about either smog or nuclear waste. (It's really not much of a stretch at all--if the U.S. government doesn't care, it's entirely possible Iran doesn't either).

Remove the smog and the nuclear waste from the equation, and guess what? More refineries is a much cheaper and faster method for Iran to produce more domestic energy.

 

[Photi]

I Believe that the NPT Protocol only says that the IAEA can make "random, unannounced inspections" to ensure that Iran is not enriching Uranium to weapons-grade needed for an nuclear weapon, however it does not prohibit the enrichment of uranium to nuclear fuel grade needed for their Nuclear Reactors.

its the Additional Protocol to the NPT which Iran voluntarily signed that says they cannot enrich uranium, not the NPT itself.

 

[Quiet Sound]

More refineries is a much cheaper and faster method for Iran to produce more domestic energy.

Or instead of literally watching millions or even billions of dollars of potential profits go up in smoke they could sell it, petroleum being 80% of Iran's exports. And its value will only increase in the coming decades.

 

[El_Machinae]

Thanks for posting Persianboy

 

[PersianBoy]

Your wellcome El Machine
Happy to see you again

 

[PersianBoy]

And lots of other people greatly prefer the smog over the nuclear waste.
More refineries is a much cheaper and faster method for Iran to produce more domestic energy.

but more countries now start to building nuclear planets after oil price rising

 

[BasketCase]

Or instead of literally watching millions or even billions of dollars of potential profits go up in smoke they could sell it, petroleum being 80% of Iran's exports. And its value will only increase in the coming decades.

Dood--Iran is already doing this. This is the cause of Iran's energy problems, not the solution.

They have to do something besides this in order to solve said problem.

but more countries now start to building nuclear planets after oil price rising

So why doesn't Iran simply hire out to one of those countries to build nuclear reactors in Iran....?

Iran isn't just trying to build reactors. They are researching the domestic separation of nuclear fuel. Spending huge amounts of money on it, too. If they want nuclear energy, they can get it a lot faster and without all the research.

Therefore they're doing the research for some other reason. And the only one I can think of has a lot to do with great big radioactive mushroom clouds.

 

[PersianBoy]

Dood--Iran is already doing this. This is the cause of Iran's energy problems, not the solution.

They have to do something besides this in order to solve said problem.



So why doesn't Iran simply hire out to one of those countries to build nuclear reactors in Iran....?

Iran isn't just trying to build reactors. They are researching the domestic separation of nuclear fuel. Spending huge amounts of money on it, too. If they want nuclear energy, they can get it a lot faster and without all the research.

Therefore they're doing the research for some other reason. And the only one I can think of has a lot to do with great big radioactive mushroom clouds.

So you blame that Iran have a problem in its energy consumption
by diversifing energy sources and using new method and repricing energy, Iran wanna to solve this problem

because other countries don't build a nuclear power planet for Iran, we have contract with Germany, Japan and France, but they refuse to build
Busher nuclear planet is building from 1975 up to day and it is not finished yet

But if Iran take technology and enriched Un from other country who assure Iran that they do according to thier contract
remember that we have such past relationship with them
Maybe Iran spending so much money on enriching Un technologies but Iran sure that always have enough enriched Un for thier Nuclear planets

 

[Quiet Sound]

Dood--Iran is already doing this. This is the cause of Iran's energy problems, not the solution.

And in your mind it makes more sense to burn the oil and lose millions or billions of dollars than to continue selling it and use alternative sources of energy. I just don't see the logic.

 

[George2816]

.

So why doesn't Iran simply hire out to one of those countries to build nuclear reactors in Iran....?

WHy should they?? WHat if that country cuts off the nuclear materials?

Iran isn't just trying to build reactors.

Says you who are you to judge another country?

They are researching the domestic separation of nuclear fuel.

Spending huge amounts of money on it, too.

I doubt they are spending as much as the US is trying to make new planes (100 billion US dollars.

If they want nuclear energy, they can get it a lot faster and without all the research.

And what if that country stops the export of material

Therefore they're doing the research for some other reason.

WHo are you to judge another country??

And the only one I can think of has a lot to do with great big radioactive mushroom clouds

Sure and i guess you are the 20%er's that still support bush and his morons?