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Iraq protests

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Socrates99, Jan 2, 2020.

  1. Socrates99

    Socrates99 Bottoms up!

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    So the US is sending "hundreds" of new troops to Iraq in response to protests at the American embassy in Iraq. Pompeo is blaming Iran for the protests. Unfortunately as soon as Pompeo's face appears on screen my bullfeathers meter buries itself in the red even more than when Trump is on screen. I consider Trump an inept fool. Pompeo on the other hand seems to yearn for blood on his hands.

    What's going on in Iraq? Will it lead to war?
     
  2. Berzerker

    Berzerker Deity

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    I doubt it, but hopefully it will expedite getting the hell out of dodge. The Iraqis dont want us hanging around but we dont want to leave the oil fields in NE Syria. At some point we'll have to let Syria reclaim their oil in spite of their alliance with Iran.
     
  3. Socrates99

    Socrates99 Bottoms up!

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    Hoping you're right. Trump seems to constantly struggle with factions in his party. Pompeo blames Iran for these protests and the troops are being moved there on that context. Since these reports have popped up I've been wondering how legit they are, how connected to Iran they really are and how far it's going to get pushed. I wish I could to trust trump to stick to his word at bare minimum but I don't.
     
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  4. Commodore

    Commodore Deity

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    From what I've heard, we have asked the Iraqi government to provide additional security for our embassy and they have not done so, either because they don't want to or just don't have the resources to.

    So as much as I hate the idea of getting sucked back into that quagmire, if the host nation can't provide the security we require for our embassy, then we have to do it ourselves. Embassies are considered sovereign US territory after all and they are staffed by US citizens, both of which the government has an obligation to defend.

    EDIT:
    I would guess they are pretty legit. In my time over there, there were literally daily reports coming in from just about every intelligence source we had of some type of Iranian interference. I even interrogated a few people that admitted to either being trained by the Iranians or were collecting information for them.

    Long story short: Iran has their fingers all over Iraq and has had them there for a very long time
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2020
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  5. El_Machinae

    El_Machinae Colour vision since 2018 Retired Moderator

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    It's an interesting conundrum whether to protect your own embassy or just pull it out. If an embassy was a (net) stabilizing presence, despite the local disruptions, that would be hard to figure out.
     
  6. innonimatu

    innonimatu Deity

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    Actually this is a common misconception. The territory of embassies always remains part of the sovereign territory of the receiving (host) country. The receiving country has duties under Article 22 of the Vienna Convention, indeed it must provide security to the diplomatic mission. It is also forbidden from sending its agents to the embassy without permission. But this does not mean that the territory becomes the sovereign territory of another country. If that were true the mission could not be expelled by the host country, which is not the case.

    This also means that the laws of the host country apply in the embassy's territory and the host country can prosecute people for crimes within the embassy if they can capture them and these people do not enjoy immunity.

    Some very few embassies (or other bits of territory) in the world were indeed ceded as sovereign territory to another state, in bilateral treaties the two states involved, centuries ago usually. That is an extremely rare situation and afaik was the case in Iraq.

    This case in Iraq the unwillingness of the iraqi government to protect the US embassy seems to result from the crass way in which the US bombed iraqi forces, killing at least 40 iraqui soldiers, on so far unsubstantiated allegations that they had attacked a base where american mercenaries and some soldiers were stationed. PR wise this was as foolish as could be done, and made the iraqi soldiers themselves unwilling to protect the US embassy. It didn't help that the iraqi PM was only notified of this bombing immediately before it happened, and disregard when he attempted to block it.

    Iraqis had been protesting their government and attacking iranian consulates. Now they are attacking the US embassy. Genius move, Pompeo et al!
     
  7. Estebonrober

    Estebonrober Deity

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    wow something I actually agree with you on! see this happens sometimes lol
     
  8. Owen Glyndwr

    Owen Glyndwr La Femme Moderne

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    Considering:

    a) These protests have been ongoing for well over a month at this point

    and

    b) the US State Department's proclivity for launching false flags, or else performing the standard rhetoric which a false flag usually entails (without doing the actual legwork)

    it seems highly unlikely that this is some kind of Iranian false flag op. And even if it were the case this were an Iranian op, would that impinge upon the extremely legitimate complaints upon which these (even allegedly "illegitimate") protests rest?
     
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  9. Lexicus

    Lexicus Deity

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    Bear in mind that this is the administration you keep implying is our great bulwark against the evil imperialists like Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama...
     
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  10. Patine

    Patine Deity

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    Mercenaries being employed by any government party to a set of binding set of treaties on wartime conduct - of which the U.S. is a signatory - are an international crime to employ on a battlefield, or to hold such an occupation. A casus belli to defend the death of a band of criminals whose presence there, and whose employment was an international war crime, compounds the war crimes being committed. The U.S. Pentagon generals involved should be sent to the Hague, not the bombing of Iraqi troops.
     
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  11. Berzerker

    Berzerker Deity

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    cuz destroying Iraq, Libya and Syria are comparable
     
  12. Patine

    Patine Deity

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    Bush lit the wick on the large powder keg that destroyed Iraq. Gadaffi and Assad set up situations that led to their nations' disintegrations with or without American assistance. And, things get much more complex under the surface as well. The situations in these three nations were decades in the making, and juxtaposed at several junctures. But for so many, blame games (like a lot of other issues) have to be oversimplified, and always be the sole fault of one AMERICAN President or another in their entirety. You fail! Try again next semester.
     
  13. Ajidica

    Ajidica High Quality Person

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    Things just escalated big time:
    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-50979463

    Also, how the actual [censored] can we not be at war with Iran when the President orders uniformed US forces to kill a serving member of the Iranian military in a military action?
     
  14. hobbsyoyo

    hobbsyoyo Deity

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    Holy crap that's bad.
     
  15. Patine

    Patine Deity

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    I was wondering how long Trump, despite all of his corruption, lies, and abuse of power, would go without also becoming a war criminal like EVERY U.S. President before him since WW2. Why don't you Americans just stop voting for high criminals to blatantly and overtly govern you, commit their crimes on your taxpayers' dime, many even actually against you, and mock you at how they get away with their vile crimes, and you don't?
     
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  16. hobbsyoyo

    hobbsyoyo Deity

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    Apparently, not only was Qasem very highly ranked, he's also a household name and extremely popular in Iran. And our President just ordered his assassination inside one of our allied nations, at an airport. I assume this means we are now at war with Iran. That is how any reasonable country would be expected to act in this situation. Yet Trump doesn't believe in military adventures...
     
  17. Lexicus

    Lexicus Deity

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    Just waiting for all the people who claimed Trump would be less of a warmonger than Clinton and Obama to explain how this is actually okay
     
  18. hobbsyoyo

    hobbsyoyo Deity

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    Half of his supporters will not know this ever happened. Fox is covering it now as it's breaking news but I expect them to suppress the story to the greatest extent they can. The other half will say it's totally justified based on whatever Trump says about it.

    If this does devolve into a general war, Fox will focus on allegations that Iran provoked this above all other narratives. They will in fact suppress any counter narratives and inconvenient facts.
     
  19. Patine

    Patine Deity

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    I'm still kind of wondering the answer to this question I asked here.

     
  20. Birdjaguar

    Birdjaguar Hanafubuki Retired Moderator Supporter

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    General Qasem Soleimani was a terrible guy. A terrorist and all around bad dude. He will not be missed. but, killing him is not the action of someone looking to solve problems. I fear the retaliation will be deadly. I hope our embassies around the world were given a heads up and are prepared.
     
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