Ireland

Cusack is definatly an Irish name, especially considering that the best Stadium in Ireland, Croke Park, has the Cusack stand

BTW, I'm glad to see that so many of the posters here agree that Ireland should be united.
 
im a 2cd generation irish/american (joyce is my last name, Im not a woman) and while i may sympathize with the republican cause, i dont agree with the tactics employed, specifically attacks on civilian targets and infrastructure.

remember that a good portion of the provo leadership are committed marxists of the mao/shining path type idealogical background. their goal is not only the establishment of a united republican ireland.

many of the leadership was trained, funded and supplied by the KGB and have links to such groups as the PLO, Hamas, Actione Directe, the Red Army Faction and the Bader-Meinhoff Group. these are not nice people.
 
Originally posted by Elden
They were originally other countries that got taken over. They like Canada, Australia and New Zealand should be independant.

That depends on the views of the Scots, Welsh and Northern Irish. Some of the Scots here for example seem to prefer Britain to an independent Scotland.

Mind you, there are still some Canadians who seem to prefer Canada as a British colony...

Still, I wonder to what extent England took over Scotland... Afgter all it was James V of Scotland inheiriting the English throne that created the United Kingdom, though he was partially of English ancestry and the whole thing was the result of a plan of an English King.
 
Phenix wrote:
I get fed up of stupid opinions like this, people declaring how England's membership of the UK is holding them back.

Being Welsh I so often hear criticism from the English; saying how pathetic this country is, how useless its people and culture are, and how we should f**k off and stop living on England's tax money.

Personally, I don't see the sense in this. We here pay our taxes the same as everyone else in the UK. We always have. And what do we get for it? Aside of course form the great benefits you'd expect including: the high crime rate, the unemployment, the huge waiting lists, the lack of any public spending, the poor education (and poor numbers of quliaified) and the lack of any general wealth. The only money I ever see being spent for the community and the public in this area comes direct from Brussels courtesy of the EU. So please, forgive us for draining all you resources and holding back your great nation. Clearly it is with great thanks to you that we live like such kings here in Wales (yes, that was sarcasm, the lowest form of wit or so I'm told, but then again, what do you expect? I am Welsh).

I suppose I should be truly greatful, eh? I mean imagine if the tories were to get back in power! I mean, they did even more for Wales at the expense of England, right? Both culturally and economically. All hail the British parties! Or maybe, I will keep my allegiance to the nationalists, just maybe.

Sorry if I upset you but I never said anything about you ‘holding us back’. You are most definitely not. It is a fact however that more money is spent per person on health and education in Wales and Scotland than in England. I just happen to think that the poor in England are more deserving than the not-so-poor in Wales and Scotland.
What I mainly said however was that I was fed up with all your whinging at us– and in your post you proceeded to show exactly what I was talking about.
Your independence would be good for both Wales and England. Then we wouldn’t have to have these sorts of arguments.
 
Originally posted by sysyphus
Still, I wonder to what extent England took over Scotland... Afgter all it was James V of Scotland inheiriting the English throne that created the United Kingdom, though he was partially of English ancestry and the whole thing was the result of a plan of an English King.

Sorry to be pedantic but it was James VI not James V of Scotland who became James I of the UK
 
I don't know what to do about all the muck up in NI.
I do hope though that the EU can make nation boundaries less inflammatory.
And as both Ireland and the UK are democracies, it shouldn't really matter very much, just give NI a greater self-governing.
 
if you kill 1 million soliders, thats war. if you kill 1 civilian on purpose, thats terrorism.
i think Northern Ireland should vote on if they want to be part of Ireland or part of Britian.
 
Originally posted by sims2789
if you kill 1 million soliders, thats war. if you kill 1 civilian on purpose, thats terrorism.
i think Northern Ireland should vote on if they want to be part of Ireland or part of Britian.
Not a bad idea, although would each county vote seperatly or would it be all six counties. I think if each county voted separatly I'm near certain that Derry and Armagh would choose to join Ireland while Antrim would most likely want to remain occupied. Down and Tyrone would be a close call. I'd also think that Fermangh would join the south.
 
Originally posted by Elden
The way you've got that quote saying Elden wrote then what Mega Tsunami said without my quote in the middle makes it look like I said that so could you remove the line Elden wrote: please, thanks

Done.

Originally posted by Benderino
@Phoenix, Scotland and Wales could be considered colonies a long time ago.

I disagree. English occupation was too short and was hardly of a colonial setup when it came to the people in power. As for Wales, for 3 centuries it was, in a strange position. Under the control of England but with no real organised authority (from the English). When the act of union came it was more an effort to annex the country and eradicate any Welsh culture. So Wales was never a colony of England.

Originally posted by Benderino
Ireland still is being used as a colony

I don't think that's a fair comment.

Originally posted by Benderino
but it is recognized NOW that Scotland and Wales aren't anymore

I don't believe they ever were in history considered colonies. But the way you capitalise now seems to stress that it's happening only in this modern time. No. Wales and Scotland have been recognised as nations within the union for centuries. Don't forget they are part of the UK, not England; those are two different things.

Originally posted by Benderino
The definition of colony is this:
"A group of emigrants living in a new land away from, but under the control of, the parent country"

Um, Wales, Scotland and Ireland were never colonised by England. They aren't counties of English emigrants (though there were plantations in Northern Ireland). And Northern Ireland is part of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. It's not an overseas holding of the UK, rather it's part of it.

Originally posted by Benderino
The duration of it being a colony matters little. The 13 North American colonies were only colonies for less than 150 years (except Jamestown, but even that was less than 200). YEt these are still considered colonies. Ireland has been under English control since when? 1200-1300? That's a lot longer.

Um (again), Northern Ireland isn't under English control. England hasn't existed as a state for 300 years.

Originally posted by Mega Tsunami
Sorry if I upset you but I never said anything about you ‘holding us back’. You are most definitely not. It is a fact however that more money is spent per person on health and education in Wales and Scotland than in England. I just happen to think that the poor in England are more deserving than the not-so-poor in Wales and Scotland.
What I mainly said however was that I was fed up with all your whinging at us– and in your post you proceeded to show exactly what I was talking about.
Your independence would be good for both Wales and England. Then we wouldn’t have to have these sorts of arguments.

This is disgusting. You clearly think we're holding you back and that the UK exists at the expense of England ('money sucking former colonies').

It's a fact that more money is spent per person on health and education in Wales? Yes of course, we should thank you for giving us the longest waiting lists in the UK. And the excellent situation of health services in Wales was clearly demonstrated when 600 people had to queue for hours to see the dentist in Camarthen this week. You see, they've never had one from the NHS before.

And education? We have massive shortages of teachers across the country and large numbers of rural area schools are being forced to close every month due to a lack of funds. This is forcing pupils into schools that already have inflated class numbers and teacher shortages.

'I just happen to think that the poor in England are more deserving than the not-so-poor in Wales and Scotland.'

There is far less money in Wales than in England. Wales is home to the most poverty stricken areas of the UK. We are certainly not economically better off as a people and do not have preferencial treatment from London.

So exactly what are you trying to say with that comment? That people in England are more deserving than people in Wales in general? That people in Wales are better off but still get favourable treatment from the government?

'What I mainly said however was that I was fed up with all your whinging at us– and in your post you proceeded to show exactly what I was talking about.'

What? Your post did nothing but criticise Wales (and other nations of the UK) for living off England's wealth and having a detrimental effect on England. For this reason you stated your belief that Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland should growp up, stand on their own two feet and go it alone. So you complain about Wales and talk of the superiority of England, citing entirely fabricated reasons and complain when I correct you? Because apparently, I am the one who's complaining? Well far from living like kings off the English wealth, the reality is more like English exploitation of the country. Rather different to your twisted view of the situation. But you expect to complain and whinge at Wales, for reasons that are simply not true, without any retaliation. Yet, I am unable to point out the flaws in your argument (such as the rather major flaw that none of it's true), I am unable to point out the true nature of the situation in the country and your complete ignorance of it, as I will simply be another 'whinging Welsh'? It is your attitude I have a major problem with. The political situation here is nothing like you make it out to be yet you see it as fine to slam my country anyway. If I complain when you so blatantly lie about my country then I am just typically Welsh?

Wake up. The situation in Wales is worse than in most places in the rest of the UK, you criticise Wales for living off English wealth and are suprised when somebody complains? It's you who has the problem, you don't realise how good you have it with this union. Whinging English.
 
Right, I can contain my English fury no longer!! :D

Firstly on topic (ie Ireland)..

There is a continual thread of opinion coming out here that repeatedly describes us English as 'occupiers', can I just say that as far as my country is concerned we just want rid of the bloody place! If it wasnt for the people of NI that consider themselves to be British we would have walked away decades ago, you think we actually enjoy fighting a decades long terrorist war? What exactly do you think we gain from our notional 'occupation' of NI that makes the bombing and shooting so worth while?

The truth is however that we are directly responsible for the people of Ulster who are British citizens, if Ulster votes to join Ireland then you will hear one almighty cheer go up on mainland Britain that we can finally wash our hands of the whole thing. The one thing that pisses me off most about the Irish situation however is the number of foreigners (mainly Americans) whos descendants left Ireland hundreds of years ago but who still consider themselves 'Irish' ( :rolleyes: ) and happily contributed to NORAID and funded the terrorists. There are a hell of a lot of Americans with the blood of innocent men, women and children on their hands due to their naive, idiotic believe in the 'freedom fighters'. The time for guns and bombs in Ireland was past long ago, let democracy take its course and maybe we might just have a solution to the bloody mess within the next decade.


Anyway, now for the Welsh.. :D

Pheonix_Nights time and again you post these messages basically slagging off the English and not bothering to hide your disdain for our country and your nationalist leanings, are you really surprised that when we in England keep hearing Welsh people coming out with these attacks that we get frankly tired of hearing it? You are obviously angry about the quality of life over there, well guess what? Its not exactly bloody brilliant over here either. As for English independance, I wouldnt really have a problem with it if thats what the majority of England voted for, problem is we will never get the opportunity because England get the short end of the stick in most things related to the union.

Most of us have no problem whatsoever with the Irish, Scottish, Welsh or anyone else really. Then we hear all the nationalists insulting us and harking back to past history. Well we've frankly had enough! If you hate us so much bugger off and declare independance! We really dont care that much, we just want some peace and quiet and for people to stop treating us like some kind of pariah because we had an empire once!

Just forgive us if we permit ourselves a smirk now and again at being able to look back at history and go 'Didnt all those countries used to be pink on the maps once'. ;)
 
Kentonio, you put it far better than I could.

Phoenix_night – you put an awful lot of words in my mouth that I did not say, and inferred a great deal incorrectly as well. I obviously touched a few very raw nerves for you.

This is disgusting. You clearly think we're holding you back and that the UK exists at the expense of England ('money sucking former colonies')

How many times must I say it – you are not ‘holding us back’.

It's a fact that more money is spent per person on health and education in Wales? Yes of course, we should thank you for giving us the longest waiting lists in the UK. And the excellent situation of health services in Wales was clearly demonstrated when 600 people had to queue for hours to see the dentist in Camarthen this week. You see, they've never had one from the NHS before.
And education? We have massive shortages of teachers across the country and large numbers of rural area schools are being forced to close every month due to a lack of funds. This is forcing pupils into schools that already have inflated class numbers and teacher shortages.


We have long queues and teacher shortages in England too.

'I just happen to think that the poor in England are more deserving than the not-so-poor in Wales and Scotland.'
There is far less money in Wales than in England. Wales is home to the most poverty stricken areas of the UK. We are certainly not economically better off as a people and do not have preferencial treatment from London.
So exactly what are you trying to say with that comment? That people in England are more deserving than people in Wales in general? That people in Wales are better off but still get favourable treatment from the government?


You completely misunderstood what I meant. I agree that the poor in Wales are just as deserving as the poor in England. Some money however is going to some Welsh that are not so poor rather than some English who are. (In other words, the middle class in Wales are obtaining subsidies at the expense of the poor in England).

I agree that parts of Wales are worse than the worst part in England, and I have no problem with money going there. It’s just that so many of your ills are blamed on us English which is just not fair.

And yes, touche – I did indeed have a whinge myself. But then again, I am a whingeing Pom – what’s your excuse? :)
 
Originally posted by phoenix_night


I don't believe they ever were in history considered colonies. But the way you capitalise now seems to stress that it's happening only in this modern time. No. Wales and Scotland have been recognised as nations within the union for centuries. Don't forget they are part of the UK, not England; those are two different things.

That's you assuming. I meant "now" to mean since the UK was founded.


Um, Wales, Scotland and Ireland were never colonised by England. They aren't counties of English emigrants (though there were plantations in Northern Ireland). And Northern Ireland is part of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. It's not an overseas holding of the UK, rather it's part of it.

Sure they were colonized, at least NI, which is the basis for this whole conversation, I might add. The English encouraged Scotch colonization, as well as did it yourself. You agree, because you mentioned "plantations". And obviously there are many in Southern Ireland who feel that NI was stolen to be a part of the UK.

Um (again), Northern Ireland isn't under English control. England hasn't existed as a state for 300 years.

So? The English people have existed for much longer. Some would argue since 1066, some even before that.
 
Originally posted by Kentonio
Right, I can contain my English fury no longer!! :D

Anyway, now for the Welsh.. :D

Pheonix_Nights time and again you post these messages basically slagging off the English and not bothering to hide your disdain for our country and your nationalist leanings, are you really surprised that when we in England keep hearing Welsh people coming out with these attacks that we get frankly tired of hearing it? You are obviously angry about the quality of life over there, well guess what? Its not exactly bloody brilliant over here either. As for English independance, I wouldnt really have a problem with it if thats what the majority of England voted for, problem is we will never get the opportunity because England get the short end of the stick in most things related to the union.

Most of us have no problem whatsoever with the Irish, Scottish, Welsh or anyone else really. Then we hear all the nationalists insulting us and harking back to past history. Well we've frankly had enough! If you hate us so much bugger off and declare independance! We really dont care that much, we just want some peace and quiet and for people to stop treating us like some kind of pariah because we had an empire once!

Just forgive us if we permit ourselves a smirk now and again at being able to look back at history and go 'Didnt all those countries used to be pink on the maps once'. ;)

Slagging off England? I'm sorry, but how the hell did you come to that conclusion?! I stated my support for a comment made by another poster concerning the independence of Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland (and therefore also England). Then, I get an English poster telling me my country is a money sucking colony that needs to grow up and that this country is full of whingers! What the hell do you want to me to do? Just say, 'Oh, yes of course, that's right. This country is full of whingers who do nothing but degrade the quality of the English nation'. I don't think so. I respond to the attack on my country, simply answering the allegations and all of a sudden I'm slagging off the English nation! How the hell does that work?! You're as bad as the original poster, slag off Wales all you like, but by no means am I able to respond. That's not right.

As for the quality of life, that was a direct response to comments made by Mega Tsunami. Simply correcting him, it was not a case of myself coming out with an attack on England. Simply defence of my nation. My problems with the union are more cultural than political.

And I don't see how you can come to the conclusion that England gets the 'short end of the stick in most things related to the union'. That just doesn't make sense. You obviously come from the same school of thought as Mega Tsunami. It seems nationalism on your part, along with your prejudiced opinions are at fault. You seem to think England's sole purpose is to provide for Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland at its own expense. Don't be so ridiclous.

'Then we hear all the nationalists insulting us and harking back to past history. Well we've frankly had enough! If you hate us so much bugger off and declare independance!'

When the hell did I insult you! Don't you think I'm the one being insulted when somebody calls my country a 'money sucking former colony'? When somebody likens my country to '40 year olds that have not left the parent's house and still expect everything to be done for them, expect things to be paid for them and still winge to us if anything at all goes wrong'. Is that not an insult? Totally instigated by an English poster, not Welsh. So you can leave that crap out of it.

Originally posted by Mega Tsunami
Phoenix_night – you put an awful lot of words in my mouth that I did not say, and inferred a great deal incorrectly as well. I obviously touched a few very raw nerves for you.

Don't say that, you would have insulted anyone by making such comments (or rather throwing insults) about their country.

Originally posted by Mega Tsunami
We have long queues and teacher shortages in England too.

Read my post. The point isn't that England is some kind of utopia and that the rest of the UK live in some kind of hell. The point was that Wales hardly lives a life of luxury at the expense of England as you kindly put it. Though there are many problems in Wales that are worse than the rest of the UK but that is not the problem. My problem is your attitude to my country, or rather the 'money sucking colony'.

Originally posted by Mega Tsunami
You completely misunderstood what I meant. I agree that the poor in Wales are just as deserving as the poor in England. Some money however is going to some Welsh that are not so poor rather than some English who are. (In other words, the middle class in Wales are obtaining subsidies at the expense of the poor in England).

Rubbish.

Originally posted by Mega Tsunami
I agree that parts of Wales are worse than the worst part in England, and I have no problem with money going there. It’s just that so many of your ills are blamed on us English which is just not fair.

Nobody made any such complaints about England in this thread. You acted without any provocation and just decided to criticise Wales (and other nations within the UK). You started this debate with your unprovoked attack on Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland.
 
Originally posted by Benderino

Sure they were colonized, at least NI, which is the basis for this whole conversation, I might add. The English encouraged Scotch colonization, as well as did it yourself. You agree, because you mentioned "plantations". And obviously there are many in Southern Ireland who feel that NI was stolen to be a part of the UK.

So? The English people have existed for much longer. Some would argue since 1066, some even before that.

1) No, they weren't colonised. The plantations were largely religious and only took place in Northern Ireland. Wales was never colonised. You seem to miss the point that Wales, Ireland and Scotland (and their people) were here a long time before the English turned up.

2) My point was, you act as if Northern Ireland is under English control and say it has been for hundreds of years when England as a state doesn't even exist. While Ireland wasn't actually under full English control until the later years of the state (not long before it ceased to exist).

It's not important anyway.
 
Phoenix_Nights you have a long history of 'slagging off' the English, dont think you can just quote specific passages from this thread and think we have forgotten everything else you have ever posted. As soon as anyone ever mentions Wales in anything other than perfect words you immediately jump in and start having a go about England, dont be surprised if we think you hate us when the only things you ever post about us are derogatory.
 
Originally posted by Kentonio
Phoenix_Nights you have a long history of 'slagging off' the English, dont think you can just quote specific passages from this thread and think we have forgotten everything else you have ever posted. As soon as anyone ever mentions Wales in anything other than perfect words you immediately jump in and start having a go about England, dont be surprised if we think you hate us when the only things you ever post about us are derogatory.

I don't have any such history. Maybe you could actually quote some of my 'slagging off'.

Mega Tsunami simply threw insults at Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland. You can't complain when I object. And even when I did, I did not simply have a go at England at all. Not at all.

I don't only ever post derogatory comments about England (find me some, please). It seems you are the one with the problem; yourself and Mega Tsunami were only too happy to slag off Wales (and the rest of the UK, bar England) without any provocation. And the defence is then labelled 'slagging off' and a sign of hatred for the English. Double standard, anyone?

Seriously, who started 'slagging off' another country? Was it me? No. Who not only started complaining about the political situation but also threw nonsense childish insults at all other members of the UK? Was it me? No. I have made no reference to the English nation or people and have not insulted them once. Yet for some reason, apparently I am the one with national hatred. I'm not sure I understand the logic behind that.
 
Phoenix_night – you need to cool down or you will give yourself a heart attack. I don’t think it is possible to argue against your inane logic. Just leave the UK please and all this won’t be a problem.
Perhaps if your rugby team was a bit better, you wouldn’t hate us so much. (and before you blow a gasket, that was a joke) ;)
 
Originally posted by Mega Tsunami
Phoenix_night – you need to cool down or you will give yourself a heart attack. I don’t think it is possible to argue against your inane logic. Just leave the UK please and all this won’t be a problem.
Perhaps if your rugby team was a bit better, you wouldn’t hate us so much. (and before you blow a gasket, that was a joke) ;)

I will probably will end up giving myself a heart attack someday, but still...'money sucking former colonies' indeed...

I don't think I have a problem with my logic concerning this thread (but I'm not going to argue it).

Our rugby team? What about your cricket team, eh? ;)
 
Maybe they're a bit useless at the moment because there's no Welsh in the cricket team :) Where's the next Robert Croft? And isn't that injured Jonesey lad Welsh - he should be playing again soon.
 
Originally posted by Mega Tsunami
Maybe they're a bit useless at the moment because there's no Welsh in the cricket team :) Where's the next Robert Croft?

Nothing wrong with the current one! :)

Originally posted by Mega Tsunami
And isn't that injured Jonesey lad Welsh - he should be playing again soon.

His name is Jones, yet you ask me whether or not he's Welsh?

;)
 
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