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Iron and Blood 5

Discussion in 'Imperium OffTopicum' started by Tee Kay, Aug 21, 2013.

  1. Tee Kay

    Tee Kay Justice guaranteed

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    A Christian-majority Sri Lanka is possible, but such a large percentage of European population never existed anywhere in South or East Asia, ever. Even in the major cities. Even a 10% European population (and another 10-20% Eurasian population) is being very generous.
     
  2. christos200

    christos200 Never tell me the odds

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    Well, if they do something like this, there is always a final solution to that problem.
     
  3. Robert Can't

    Robert Can't Grantaire

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    I'll step back to 35% and I do think it should be at least that much and even more in the urban areas, since Port Hadley is acting like a USA of the world - a honeypot for migrants with the idea of the American dream being replaced by one for Port Hadley. It offers the only place in the world where Christian Europeans can migrate to to get away from the Catholic Church, The Islamic Nations or the oppression of their own governments.
    Thus I think the demographic structure of Port Hadley would be more comparable to North America than of OTL Asia.
     
  4. Ailedhoo

    Ailedhoo wonderer

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    It is also possible that the Islamic powers may set explorers to the West or for the original faiths of the Americas to be maintained. :mischief:
     
  5. Tee Kay

    Tee Kay Justice guaranteed

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    Port Hadley City perhaps.

    The only reason North America has such a large European population was due to major depopulation of indigenous peoples, in conditions that just weren't present in South Asia (except perhaps through wholesale genocide). In fact, in South Asia it was Europeans who were dying in droves due to tropical diseases.
     
  6. Tani Coyote

    Tani Coyote Canis Latranscendental

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    Karma's a cruel mistress isn't it? :mischief:

    Though this really demonstrates why I'd be unwilling to join up, simply because I can guarantee I'd miss one or two historical details; there's just too much to remember. :(
     
  7. NedimNapoleon

    NedimNapoleon Weird Little Human

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    What school shall Mutapa/Zimbabwe follow?
     
  8. Ailedhoo

    Ailedhoo wonderer

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    I have done a draft history of Mali in this game...

    Spoiler draft history :
    Mali’s decline in the 15 century was countered when Mema was defended by Ouali II against the Songhai Empire. After a series of (slow) campaigns by many Malian rulers Magham IV would secure the future of Mali in 1551, driving Songhal out. His successor, Mahmud III, would secure Malian trade links, notable with a claim reinforcement of the costal holdings in the West.

    1602 saw the rise of Souleyman II. Souleyman conducted efforts to improve links with the Mediterain and with the Middle East. His successor in 1631, Souleyman III, began to expand Mali to the south to secure southern trade links in other to establish trade dominion with sailors from Europe in hope of increasing commerce. His successor in 1659, Magham V, would continue securing the southern provinces of current day Mali while beginning a move towards the north-west in opportunity of internal decline of Morocco. Ibramhima I would hence fully secure the northern-western parts of current day Mali around 1699.

    The 18th century saw Mali focus on commercial development with the expansions that occurred durning the period were all conducted between 1751-1783 under the reign of Ouali III. Musa IV who ruled between 1783 and 1804 focused on continued trade development for Mali. Ibramhima II would rule from 1804 till 1812 when he died of disease. 1812 and still ruling is his successor Mahmud IV, who after conducting advisory reforms to allow better management of affairs looks to continue Mali’s position in hope of his successor.


    I will develop the fuller details of current day Mali this afternoon.
     
  9. Sonereal

    Sonereal ♫We got the guillotine♫ Supporter

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    Actually no, there isn't. The idea that there would be no Turkish identity by game start is ASB.
     
  10. christos200

    christos200 Never tell me the odds

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    You do not seem to understand what I mean by final solution.
     
  11. Sonereal

    Sonereal ♫We got the guillotine♫ Supporter

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    I assume genocide, since that seems to be your tool of choice for every situation.
     
  12. Sonereal

    Sonereal ♫We got the guillotine♫ Supporter

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    Like Bowsling said, it really doesn't matter if Greek and Syrian revolts happen earlier. The Caliphate exists so do the spice routes.


    The special thing about Christopher Colombus is that his numbers were wrong, and everybody knew they were wrong, and despite him going to Portugal, England, etc to try to get funding, the only people desperate enough with the money were the Spanish.

    The religious reason for westward expansion or finding a sea route to the Indian trade network wasn't as important as the economic draw of it. More than likely, Northern Europeans reach North America, but it isn't to find a powerbase against Islam, because the English colonies would do exactly the opposite for the longest time. They would be costly in the short term without any of the benefit of producing the metals that Europeans need to trade in the network in the first place. All it would mean is that the colonial powers will have something to trade with the Central Europeans and the Balkans with. Sugar, cotton, and whathaveyou for copper and silver.

    One thing to encourage. Another thing to have any ability to enforce policy. Italy was already on the downslope of political and economic relevance by 1450.


    Again, it would be more accident than not. Portugal didn't intentionally seek Brazil. Why would it need to if there was a tried and tested true route sailing east already?

    Quickly becoming a situation where everybody misses the mark quickly. The only parts of South America claimed seem to be the parts without Potosi. Whoever is Colombia should start voicing opinions.
     
  13. NedimNapoleon

    NedimNapoleon Weird Little Human

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    OOC: Christos seems to think genocide is quite easy and quick. He forgets its a hard, disgusting and dirty business that requires large amounts of manpower, industrial capacity and ammo. I mean 1700's Greece could've easily massacred more Turks than 1940's Nazi Germany could Jews.

    Nazi Costanza related.
     
  14. Bair_the_Normal

    Bair_the_Normal 全は禪

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    So who's Colombia named after?
     
  15. SouthernKing

    SouthernKing crickety cricket

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    كريستوفر كولومبوس of course!
     
  16. MaxaTheGreat

    MaxaTheGreat Feel Prussian Iron!

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  17. Sonereal

    Sonereal ♫We got the guillotine♫ Supporter

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    Expanding claims. Forming Netherlands. Somewhat like OTL, the Dutch were more focused on trade than the religious or imperial ambitions of OTL countries like Spain. The Caribbean colonies are filled with merchants from colonies and countries all involved in the Atlantic trade network. Indentured French servitude and black slaves were imported on large scales to make up for chronic labor shortages before slavery was abolished in 1809 and put into effect in 1815.

    Spoiler :


    The freewheeling nature of the colonies make them a melting pot of many European cultures, with Christians and Muslims getting along relatively well. The colonies are loosely tied to the government back in Antwerp, and operate in a similar fashion to OTL British dominions.
     
  18. Bowsling

    Bowsling Deity

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    The dominion system was mainly a defensive thing handy when you have massive amounts of sparsely populated territory bordering aggressive Traitor States (the original one, Canada) or a short distance away from a quickly rising Asian power (Australia & New Zealand) or you're trying to force your white people to co-operate with the other white people there (South Africa and to a lesser extent Canada). What would make more sense for your colonial administration would be something along the lines of VOC colonialism, ironically.
     
  19. Sonereal

    Sonereal ♫We got the guillotine♫ Supporter

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    I must be misunderstanding the VOC then (and will read up on it). The basic idea, however, is that I'm predicting that without mercantile pushes on colonial trade, the European/Dutch population of the colonies would be more content than 1776 OTL Americans.

    The colonies would trade out for precious metals from neighboring colonies (whether legally or not wouldn't really matter, given black market trading happened on large scales OTL) and trade these metals on the spice markets.
     
  20. JohannaK

    JohannaK Careless Whisperer

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    My nation better be called Hesperia or something like that. Like the New Christian Iberia and stuff. It is a kind of refined feudal system, akin to a modern federation, but still ruled by an aristocratic class, formed by old Iberians. People from former Castille rule mostly the Gulf Coast and most of the mainland, while descendants of Catalans are mostly established along the West Coast. Old Portuguese are scattered along both coasts and even inland, but mostly south of Río Grande. Old Iberians are all employed in the administration, as civil servants, diplomats and military specialists (commanders, engineers). Some Mestizos are employed as minor civil officials, with a few becoming as prominent as the less mixed individuals. Most of the administration is made up of Mestizos, which form the majority of the population, since lots of Old Iberians finally settled with native families or other Mestizos, leading to an increasingly more homogeneous society in which the different Iberian cultures of old barely matter any more, although they sometimes become the source for internal disputes.
     

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