Iron City

[Noldodan]

There are three proposals for an iron city using our iron to the NE, and also other irons to the far NE, SW, and far East. Seeing as NE is the only iron that has gained support for our next city, it is the only one presented in the options. Here is the discussion, and here is a map of the three proposals for this city:

(Map courtesy Cyc)
This poll will be open until the beginning of the turnchat.

 

[Provolution]

I agreee with 100 % with the Domestic Minister here. Cycs preference of 2 or 3 will strangulate the other city option, and would undermine a national security system.
Zhojoji should instead face the Northern Coast, as Furuyama is more an auxilliary port to Fanatikku, which needed a close port due to the 1 tile distance. We need to use the ocean tiles effectively, plus it gives quicker transportation by boat later on.

 

[blackheart]

I choose option 1. Option 2 clutters up our cities too much and takes tiles away from other cities. Option 3 wastes tiles. Option 1 may also give us a passageway to expand northward, towards the unknown region.

 

[MSTK]

We're going to go for culture to grab the Iron, right? Or are we going to build a seperate one?

 

[Scalefang]

The only problem with 1 is the fact that if a temple is not built there soon there is a possibility that an AI may settle a city to take the iron and if that happens than it is probably war. That's how I see it and what my problem is. Would be a shame to loose the iron and posting warriors to prevent the AI from settling there would take up too much resources at this moment.

 

[Babbler]

We could build a Colony.

 

[Scalefang]

We could build a Colony.

But if the AI settles there we loose our colony.

 

[Cyc]

Sorry, I still like #2 the best.

 

[Black_Hole]

Sorry, I still like #2 the best.

looking it over, i have to agree site 2 could become a great settler factory with a river and cow... also some wines

 

[Donovan Zoi]

With 4 potential threats vying for Japanatican attention, I can't believe we are about to vote our way out of an immediate strategic solution.

In building Site 2, we have Iron within our 9 tile radius and the city is built to the SE of the resource to protect our Iron interest from foreign settlement. Fear not; we can still build Site 1 at a later time.

With Site 1 as our next city, we do not address the claiming of inland territory that will be our sole focus for the next several centuries. With Site 1, we have to build a Temple or waste a worker to use the Iron, both of which are inadequate solutions in securing the Iron should Rome or the Zulu settle within reach of it. We would lose the Colony(as Scalefang stated) or we could lose the cultural border.

We obviously want Iron or we wouldn't be dedicating this city choice to Iron and Iron alone. So why do we want to found our city in a way that does not give us a nearly 100% guarantee of immediate Iron once connected?

Please vote for Site 2, or we pay for it later.

 

[Civanator]

Site 2 looks good so we can secure the Iron and secure the wines when our culture expands, and we have the flood plains, the cow and the hill for defensive bonuses.

 

[Sir Donald III]

There is another issue at Stake here:

The Grapes.

If we do not claim them, we will have our potential luxes cut in Half, and thus ourselves be forced onto the Grapes of Wrath. Site 1 does Not address the grapes at all. On the other hand, Site 3 puts the grapes within immediate range but butts in on our Northern Coast City. Likewise, Site 2 keeps the North Coast option open, but infinges upon the Immo District.

I would like to settle at #1 eventually, but this is secondary to the securing of not only Strategic, but also Luxury Resources in the area. Therefore, I propose that we settle at the Floodplains directly East of Site 2. This will gives us Grapes immediately, Iron within Temple Range, and a Coastal City later.

Of course, I would settle the Coastal City 3rd after securing the SW Iron and the only horses we can obtain outside of War, but I would rather contend with the Zulu for Coastline than the Babylonians for Resources.

 

[Provolution]

we have enough settlers to take all at once.

 

[Strider]

I'd prefer settling these two locations:



Yes, I know that neither of them gets us the Iron immediantly, but it doesn't screw up our future locations for settling. Also, the chance of the AI placing a city right between two of ours is VERY low, so I doubt we would have to worry about that.

PS: Sorry about the bad editing..

 

[MSTK]

I'd prefer settling these two locations:



Yes, I know that neither of them gets us the Iron immediantly, but it doesn't screw up our future locations for settling. Also, the chance of the AI placing a city right between two of ours is VERY low, so I doubt we would have to worry about that.

PS: Sorry about the bad editing..

If we do that, then the borders will be automatically expanded, so we own the "in between" in our cultural boundaries. If we settle both on the same turn (unlikely), Iron is immediate.

 

[Strider]

hmm, your right.... I thought there was a two tile gap between the cities bordors, but your correct the Iron and both tiles next to the Iron would be expanded into our cultural boundaries.

 

[Sir Donald III]

Strider, I agree wholeheartedly, save that we should Settle Tile 2 First to secure the Luxury. (I know, popular opinion disfavors me, but still...)

And, Honored Foreign Minister, with regards to the impact of such a plan to the "Defensible Borders" initative, there is a term called "Border Cities". Such cities are, by definition in precarious areas not covered by a Defensive overlap. What of your "Eastern Expansion"? How will it be protected?

And another thing: If we don't settle near the Grapes, the Zulu will. A town on the Plains may not put the Iron under Zulu control, but it will put some of our "New Border Fence" on the Zulu side. The Forests will contatly shift between Zulu South and Immo, while "Mt. Volga Source" and the Hills SW of them (the one without Iron) would be in Zulu Territory, and the Iron would barely be on our side of the border.

We need to settle on Strider's East Site before the Zulu in order to make the Border Initative Feasible.


Finally, MSTK, you're mostly right. There would still be 1 space where the Zulu can found a city to take the iron away before we can get Temples up: The hill immediately SW of the Iron. 1 Warrior should be enough to secure against that possibility, however.

 

[Donovan Zoi]

I'd prefer settling these two locations:



Yes, I know that neither of them gets us the Iron immediantly, but it doesn't screw up our future locations for settling. Also, the chance of the AI placing a city right between two of ours is VERY low, so I doubt we would have to worry about that.

PS: Sorry about the bad editing..

Settling on Strider's Red site(not to be confused with Site 2 in the first post) would devalue the Flood Plain tile in that we would be able to irrigate it for maximum food. That leaves only one Cattle tile and some Plains. Plus we lose the defense bonus of the Hill that the origianl Site 2 would provide.

Vote the original Site 2(first post). For strategy. For security. For peace of mind.

 

[MSTK]

Finally, MSTK, you're mostly right. There would still be 1 space where the Zulu can found a city to take the iron away before we can get Temples up: The hill immediately SW of the Iron. 1 Warrior should be enough to secure against that possibility, however.

Ack, I didn't see that I was paying most attention to the southwest tile, and then I realized that it would be joined as well.

 

[Falcon02]

I like Strider's Idea, except that we must move STRIDER'S #2 at least 1 tile away from the flood plains... as mentioned before settling on the flood plains will waste it.

Holding back my vote for the moment though, because Strider's plan only garentee's the Iron if we get both down around the same time.