Iron now THE key resource? Rome and Russia new top civs?

[Varanid]

I just got curb stomped by the aztecs I had 0 iron, they had 5 or 6, and they wound up with that new natural wonder (gold city) that gives +500...coupled with honor, rush bought lots of cheap units (spearmen)+built 2 catapults and ran over me in the classical era. With the horse nerfs my horse died attacking a damn catapult; I'm not sure how that happened.

 

[alpaca]

Wow good job. I'd say in a game with as many exploits as civ V, there's something to be said for not worry about what is/isn't an exploit and, and just abusing everything you can.

Am I reading that right that you got communism, but no policies in rationalism? That's suprising to me. Is that because you were able to use bulbs/RAs to research almost all the later techs?

Honestly, things like selling cities and recapturing them is broken because the AI simply shouldn't take a crappy backwater city right next to your capital, and if they take it they shouldn't give you any money for it. Right now, they give you 1000 gold or so.

There is one other way to get scientists early on-the observatory has scientist slots now. Settling near mountains could be important.

Maybe, but it will be hard to get a lib, uni and observatory running in a reasonable time. And you can't work mountains.

On Immotal I got a turn 104 Renaissance today with India, and I even botched one of the RAs. I applied Martin's National College First strategy. Admittedly, the game is quite broken because I got the Fountain of Youth. Nevertheless, if you manage things right you should be able to pull off Astronomy before turn 100. I had some problems with the AI not having money.

 

[Louis XXIV]

With the horse nerfs my horse died attacking a damn catapult; I'm not sure how that happened.

I don't see how that would happen. Or if it did, the same random chance could have you losing your horses before.

 

[Varanid]

I don't know. They catapults were on a hill, but they weren't fortified. it was just...weird. Horse 1 died attacking it, horse 2 got eaten alive by some archers and horse three...well, he did what he could and died bravely?
bleh.
I lost the save file while having to repair my computer (repair install, my backups were too corrupted...thankfully I had my music, photos and documents on thumb drives!). Otherwise I'd go back and try it again.
As is it'll be a few days till I have all my stuff reinstalled to see how this plays with the patches

 

[Louis XXIV]

Ouch, sorry about your computer.

 

[Paeanblack]

Honestly, things like selling cities and recapturing them is broken because the AI simply shouldn't take a crappy backwater city right next to your capital, and if they take it they shouldn't give you any money for it. Right now, they give you 1000 gold or so.

My selling 3 cities on turn 32 to buy 4 Horsemen to go rampaging is beyond broken. Even with the Horseman nerf, 4 horses and 5 warriors will wipe the continent if you deploy them that early. The wonderbuilder AIs haven't even built Spears by then.

I'll be the first to admit it's not even sharp gameplay...it's 100% cheese. It was, however, extremely fun the first time. It's sufficiently broken that I won't feel like I'm holding back if I don't do that in future games. I don't think fixing it is a high priority. While it would be cool if the AI offered a "fair" price for cities, actually calculating that price would involve way too many factors.

 

[Louis XXIV]

I'm of the opinion the AI should only take or give cities or trade in city for city transactions (never buy your cities). Priority for a city should be a formula based on distance and value of the city. They'll trade small cities close to you for large cities or small cities close to them. That would fix this exploit without killing city trades.

 

[stormerne]

My selling 3 cities on turn 32 to buy 4 Horsemen to go rampaging is beyond broken. Even with the Horseman nerf, 4 horses and 5 warriors will wipe the continent if you deploy them that early. The wonderbuilder AIs haven't even built Spears by then.

I've been trying this. 4 horses by themselves need 2 turns (where 1 turn was previously enough) and even then the ground crew may be needed to catch any defensive counterattack, especially at higher levels. If you take more horses, 1upt starts to catch you in some terrain. So it's much more of a challenge to get it right now; it was just a sausage machine before.

I'll be the first to admit it's not even sharp gameplay...it's 100% cheese. It was, however, extremely fun the first time. It's sufficiently broken that I won't feel like I'm holding back if I don't do that in future games. I don't think fixing it is a high priority. While it would be cool if the AI offered a "fair" price for cities, actually calculating that price would involve way too many factors.

I can smell the Camembert from here! I think that the simple answer is to delay city trading in the tech tree. Civil Service seems intuitively right to me.

 

[Bibor]

Post patch observation:

Aluminium is the new THE key resource

 

[alpaca]

My selling 3 cities on turn 32 to buy 4 Horsemen to go rampaging is beyond broken. Even with the Horseman nerf, 4 horses and 5 warriors will wipe the continent if you deploy them that early. The wonderbuilder AIs haven't even built Spears by then.

I'll be the first to admit it's not even sharp gameplay...it's 100% cheese. It was, however, extremely fun the first time. It's sufficiently broken that I won't feel like I'm holding back if I don't do that in future games. I don't think fixing it is a high priority. While it would be cool if the AI offered a "fair" price for cities, actually calculating that price would involve way too many factors.

It would be better if the AI never bought cities that weren't adjacent to their territory. And it's not hard to get some calculation for the value of a city. Take the amount of gold, science, excess food and production it would produce, subtract the amount of happiness it costs times two and multiply the result by 50 for example. For a city with 5 citizens and a colosseum that could produce 10 gold, this would yield 650 which I think is an ok price. For a size 10 city with a library, university, market and colosseum that could work 10 trade posts on rivers, you'd get 2025 if I didn't miscalculate. But who would sell such a city?

Post patch observation:

Aluminium is the new THE key resource

By the time you get to Aluminum the dice are cast.

 

[Bibor]

By the time you get to Aluminum the dice are cast.

Now I'll say "not if you're planning your big intercontinental invasion" and then you'll say "those are meant to happen sooner" and then I'll say "well not for me", and then you'll say "..." and then I'll say "I can't outtech the AI that fast that I can rely on Oil exclusively" and then you'll say "by my calculations..." and then my head explodes.

 

[alpaca]

and then my head explodes.

Oh, we wouldn't want that

 

[KrikkitTwo]

Paying the happiness penalty for another city is still worthwhile.

A size-4 city with colosseum/library/uni running 2 specialists + 2 farms is food neutral with no policies or techs, and it generates 18 beakers for 2 unhappiness.

Adding 2 population to an existing city with library/uni will generate 4.5 beakers for 2 unhappiness.

18 beakers vs 4.5 beakers? There is no comparison here. Science from specialists and science from population aren't even in the same ballpark.

Even if all you have is a size-1 city with just a library, that is 4.5 beakers for 3 unhappiness. Adding 3 population to an existing city with a library is also 4.5 beakers for 3 unhappiness. You are already breaking even with JUST a library.

Which is why they don't let you have 2 specialists.

Right now the formula is
Size 4 city=2 unhappy
1 specialist (university)
13.5 science for 2 happiness (and the construction cost+maintenance of a Library/University/Colluseum and settler)

OR
add 2 pop
4.5 science for 2 happiness... and no construction cost.
(although if you spend the construction cost for a Theater, that gives you 7 additional pop for 2 unhappiness)
so
15.75 science for 2 happiness... and the construction cost+maintenance of a Theater

They are nerfing ICS by making building up (when you have the techs that allow it) better than building out.

 

[Martin Alvito]

Which is why they don't let you have 2 specialists.

Siam...