Is a hamburger a sandwich?

[BvBPL]

Is a hamburger a sandwich?

Whenever I go to Wendy's or Burger King and order a burger, the staff refer to it as a sandwich.

Is a hamburger a sandwich?

 

[Lohrenswald]

So apparantly, the hamburger is the piece of meat, and the whole dish is called a hamburgersandwich.

So yes.

But stop eating sandwiches, they're stupid.

 

[Borachio]

Well, I don't know, do I?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandwich

What a funny question!

Let's go with no. Is that right?

But a sandwich is something between two pieces of bread (and the two pieces of bread). So yes, it is a sandwich. Is that the right answer?

 

[GoodSarmatian]

It is as much a sandwich as a human is an ape and a dog is a wolf.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Yes, a hamburger is a sandwich. A bunch of hamburgers is a bunch of sandwiches. Hamburger, or some hamburger, or a pound of hamburger, is proper usage of a 'mass noun' as it does not have a numeric component, and is generally ground beef, though in some places there is some mystery included. The meat in a hamburger sandwich is a hamburger patty.

 

[Arwon]

Two bits of bread, stuff between bread. It's part of the sandwich genre.

 

[Birdjaguar]

^^^ This. Note that Wendy's also sell s a grilled chicken sandwich which is pretty similar to a hamburger.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

Of course it's a sandwich.

 

[onejayhawk]

Yes, obviously. Why bring it up?

J

 

[Narz]

Even a hotdog in a bun is a sandwich.

 

[Perfection]

Yes, but because it's on a bun and served hot it doesn't fit the sandwich archetype (which is cold and uses sliced bread), that's why it's not as "sandwhichy" as a say a ham and cheese on rye. So if you asked someone to make you a sandwich you'd be pretty surprised if you got a burger.

It's odd in the same way penguins are. You wouldn't be surprised if someone drew a pigeon or a cardinal if you asked them to draw a bird. But you probably would be surprised if they drew a penguin, because penguins aren't shaped like most birds, and don't fly.

 

[downtown]

Yes, but because it's on a bun and served hot it doesn't fit the sandwich archetype (which is cold and uses sliced bread), that's why it's not as "sandwhichy" as a say a ham and cheese on rye. So if you asked someone to make you a sandwich you'd be pretty surprised if you got a burger.
.

I guess the bun is the only tricky thing. Lots of sandwiches are served hot, like a Ruben, or an Italian Beef.

I can see the argument over whether a hot dog is a sandwich, but a hamburger seems pretty damn sanwichy to me. And a delicious one, I might add.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Yes, but because it's on a bun and served hot it doesn't fit the sandwich archetype (which is cold and uses sliced bread), that's why it's not as "sandwhichy" as a say a ham and cheese on rye. So if you asked someone to make you a sandwich you'd be pretty surprised if you got a burger.

It's odd in the same way penguins are. You wouldn't be surprised if someone drew a pigeon or a cardinal if you asked them to draw a bird. But you probably would be surprised if they drew a penguin, because penguins aren't shaped like most birds, and don't fly.

This is a pretty good assessment, though 'served hot' and/or 'on a bun' are not anywhere near as atypical among sandwiches as penguins are among birds. Downtown already mentioned other hot sandwiches, and sandwiches on a Kaiser roll, a French roll, or some other bun shaped bread thing aren't really hard to come by either.

 

[Birdjaguar]

How about a "hot turkey sandwich"?

 

[Perfection]

I guess the bun is the only tricky thing. Lots of sandwiches are served hot, like a Ruben, or an Italian Beef.

Of course, but many sandwiches are served on rolls. The question is what sandwich is the archetype. The example sandwich you envision when someone says the word "sandwich".

Let's say you asked a business associate to grab you a sandwich while he was going out, and let's assume there was no time to specify your type preference. What sort of sandwich would you expect to receive?

I would imagine you would expect to receive some sort of cold sandwich on long roll or between two slices of bread. It would consist of meat cheese and various vegetables with possibly mayo or mustard.

If you received a burger or a grilled cheese sandwich you'd be pretty surprised. In the burger case you would probably note that if you wanted a burger you would have asked for a burger not a sandwich.



Another way to put this might be there's really two definitions of sandwiches. There's a technical definition, but then there's another definition based on categorizing lunches into simple descriptions. Going out for sandwiches is not the same as going out for burgers. This is useful because we have joints that specialize in sandwiches that aren't burgers (and typically most menu items are cold sandwiches), and burger joints.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Of course, but many sandwiches are served on rolls. The question is what sandwich is the archetype. The example sandwich you envision when someone says the word "sandwich".

Let's say you asked a business associate to grab you a sandwich while he was going out, and let's assume there was no time to specify your type preference. What sort of sandwich would you expect to receive?

I would imagine you would expect to receive some sort of cold sandwich on long roll or between two slices of bread. It would consist of meat cheese and various vegetables with possibly mayo or mustard.

If you received a burger or a grilled cheese sandwich you'd be pretty surprised. In the burger case you would probably note that if you wanted a burger you would have asked for a burger not a sandwich.



Another way to put this might be there's really two definitions of sandwiches. There's a technical definition, but then there's another definition based on categorizing lunches into simple descriptions. Going out for sandwiches is not the same as going out for burgers. This is useful because we have joints that specialize in sandwiches that aren't burgers (and typically most menu items are cold sandwiches), and burger joints.

The determination of 'what is the archetype' is going to change with age I suspect. Early on my 'immediate vision' for sandwich would have been something that fit in a baggie that would be found in a lunchbox, but at some point it changed into something that would come from Subway. You're right though that a burger would not come to mind in response to hearing the word sandwich.

There's a complexity in that the 'burger joint' will typically have a chicken sandwich on the menu that is made on the same bun and is basically indistinguishable from the burger other then being purported to be made of chicken.

 

[Kennigit]

I'm debating about where I would draw the line in the taxonomy

Yes, a hamburger has to be a sandwich

BUT, in the higher level organization, I don't think a sandwich belongs to the archetype class Dinner. A hamburger belongs to both lunch and dinner

But I would suppose that hamburger is to sandwich as homo sapien is to homo.

My debate is whether hamburger is to sandwich as homo sapien is to hominini


But the hamburger does not belong to a unique subclass (e.g. Meal -> lunch -> sandwich) the way a, say, peanut butter and jelly sandwich would in the United States (as light lunch or very mobile, packable meal, e.g. for hiking, road trip, child's lunch, light lunch, whatever)

 

[BvBPL]

What's the taxonomy of a fluffernutter then?

 

[Kennigit]

do people eat that for dinner? Or pack it for hiking? or is it just as a dessert-like sandwich or a quick sandwich to satisfy basic hungers (children, midday, whatever)

 

[Perfection]

Pulitzer Prize winning philosopher/cognitive scientist [wiki]Douglas Hofstadter[/wiki] (co-authored with Emmanuel Sander) On Sandwiches





Book is Surfaces and Essences: Analogy as the Fuel and Fire of Thinking

Anyone who is interested in these sorts of categorization questions should find the book rather insightful.