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Is a victory a victory?

Discussion in 'Civ3 - General Discussions' started by Lorax, Jan 28, 2004.

  1. Lorax

    Lorax Chieftain

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    Well, I made it through - my learning curve is over and I actually was able to play a full lenght game and it ended in victory - Diplomatic Victory.....

    Hollow, but a victory....

    Are these considered cheese?
     
  2. Globo

    Globo Chieftain

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    Not by me!

    It takes quite a lot of finesse to achieve a Diplomatic Victory not to mention patience with the AI. For getting and keeping a good enough overall reputation you need to know the factors that influence AI's attitudes.

    Therefore I'm a bit surprised : is this your first victory in a full lenght game ever? If so I would think it's quite unusual to start with a Diplomatic Victory. My first 10 or so victories were Space Race. On lower levels it's easy getting ahead in tech. Beginning to wonder about other peoples first victories now...

    Anyway, I've only had a Diplomatic Victory once. Usually it's tomatoes and eggs in the UN for me.
     
  3. meltone1

    meltone1 Civophile

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    the easiest win IMo is a diplomatic one.. I find it too easy to butter the AI even if I was previously at war with them.
     
  4. jm chen

    jm chen power lurker

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    Well, a histograph victory is pretty easy, if you're patient.
     
  5. IglooDude

    IglooDude Enforcing Rule 34 Retired Moderator Supporter

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    I've found (being a warmonger) that I won almost exclusively through Domination Victories, until I turned off that victory condition.
     
  6. Salte

    Salte King

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    In my fist C3C game i only played for a 20k culture victory. And it was so not worth it. My score was lousy, and even if i had all available wonders (except two or three of the ancient ones) in my 20k-city, victory wasnt achieved until late 1800.
    I also find diplo-victory pretty easy. All you have to do is keep a decent relationship with 3-4 civs for a while, and then bribe them with techs and gold when election time comes (this depends on the number of reamining civs off course).
     
  7. Globo

    Globo Chieftain

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    I don't consider a histograph victory really a victory. Failing to achieve another victory within the huge amount of time you're getting shouldn't even be rewarded with a victory, it should be called a draw or so.
     
  8. wilbill

    wilbill That Old Time Religion

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    I think a diplomatic victory is as valuable as you want to make it. If you sign MPP's and give gifts to the AI's a couple of turns before the UN vote, it's not anything to brag about. OTOH, if you play the game with the intent of winning with the UN, keep your relations good through the whole game and put yourself in a position to win the vote, it's as good as any.
     
  9. Lorax

    Lorax Chieftain

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    Thanks...

    Thats what I did....No bribing whatsoever and didnt do any deals nor gifts/bribes after I made the UN....I had great relations with the civs and there were only 5 left....two had a MPP and of course aligned their vote - requiring me to have the remaing two votes (plus myself) to win....I accomlished that without bribes...

    Also, it was Warlord - so space was gonna very easy - I had a huge tech lead and all the resources.....Domination wasnt gonna be hard as two civs were in the industrial age while I had Mech Infantry.....

    So, in short - time to move to Regent and take my lumps...
    I learned alot about the game and most of all - how to trade and gain allys.....A few battle tactics as well - I learned the value of artillery - man, does this make things tilt the battlefield...!!!
     
  10. Longasc

    Longasc Deity

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    I always go for achieving the scenario goals in Conquests, but I considered my biggest victory the histographic win of my first Monarch game - it was VEEEEEEERY close and I had really to struggle hard to beat those Chinese...

    My advice: Anyone who considers winning on histograph a cheap or hollow victory should really move up in difficulty level, he will appreciate the cheap victory then... :)
     
  11. Dr Elmer Jiggle

    Dr Elmer Jiggle King

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    Keep in mind you also need to prevent the AI from winning given that huge amount of time. That isn't always so easy. You need to make it to 2050 without letting anyone finish a space ship, reach domination, build enough culture for a win, etc. I've only done it once, because I found it tedious to play such a long game, but going for a histograph victory from the get-go can be an interesting game.
     
  12. Enkidu Warrior

    Enkidu Warrior Ultramagnetic

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    It entirely depends how you play. As a builder, I find any military victory extremely hard work, but space and diplomatic wins are relatively easy. Sometimes diplomatic wins can feel a bit cheap, but not always. If you can survive the agression of your neighbours without resorting to tactics that annoy the rest of the world, you must be doing something right.

    In conquests it can be hard to secure a good plot of land without doing a bit of warring, so diplomatic victories can be a bit harder to earn.
     
  13. microbe

    microbe Cascaded Mansion

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    I never had a diplomatic victory, and I actually turned it off in the past. But I think it's a good way to win the game early if you are clearly winning and don't want to waste time on it any more.
     
  14. Mano3

    Mano3 King

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    I wish there was a way to end the game without having to retire and get the "Lost" tag in the Hall of Fame. Sometimes you get to a position where you will win - no matter what - but you still have to play out the game. Don't know how this would work though...
     
  15. Globo

    Globo Chieftain

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    Thanks a lot. Indeed I've never started a game by setting Histographic Victory as a goal. It is an interesting challenge which I've never thought of. After my current Conquest I'll try it.

    Well, I guess that just upgraded Histograph for me!

    I still believe though that the Histograph is just a scoring system. It is an accurate representation of how you are doing. Being first or even a close 2nd or 3rd at the beginning of the modern age should enable any game to be won by one of the available Victory Conditions. I am pretty sure that achieving a Histograph Victory is often 'abused' as a Victory by players who lack a clear direction in the game.

    I'm sorry if I offended your biggest victory ever Longasc! I can accept it was a terrific victory if it was really close til the last couple of turns. By the way I'm Monarch now just don't know how to f*** change that stupid Chieftain under my Avatar! Tips are welcome everybody!:king:
     
  16. wilbill

    wilbill That Old Time Religion

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    Just quit playing? No losing score recorded, no harm done, delete all the files and there's no evidence. :)
     
  17. oregonduckman33

    oregonduckman33 Chieftain

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    I don't think it's cheap. It's a legal victory that's included in the game insn't it?
     
  18. Brewster

    Brewster stays crunchy in milk

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    Diplomatic victories can be very satisfying if that was you goal from the start. It takes a great deal of patience when dealing with the AI civs and skill at the bargaining table to win this way.

    For the most intense Diplo victory story, check out Charis's Mongolian Peace Corps in the Stories thread. This was nothing short of amazing.
     
  19. Capt Buttkick

    Capt Buttkick Emperor

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    That's a truely fantastic game.
    Also: check out this succesion game for another well played, hard earned diplo victory, this time on sid difficulty.
     
  20. Mano3

    Mano3 King

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    I meant when you are winning and the AI can't possibly win the game. I know I could build the 'great army of death' and get the Domination victory, but sometimes I'm just to lazy or have lost interest.

    Maybe if you retired, the tag just stated, "Retired"


    PS: That Old John Barleycorn is some nasty stuff. :crazyeye:
     

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