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Is AI unable to wipe out an entire civ?

Discussion in 'Civ4 - General Discussions' started by marioflag, Apr 17, 2006.

  1. vilemerchant

    vilemerchant Prince

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    For me the worst part of all this is the behaviour of the AIs very early in the game. We all remember meeting civs in the earlier games and having the agro leaders declare tribute from you right away, and if you refused they'd declare war. Or you could demand tribute and that might incite a war or they might pay up. civ 4 you don't even get the option to demand tribute, and the AI always 100% makes peace with you from the start, and you won't hear from them again until Writing. All 18 civs will make peace and all dance around their settlers and warriors trying to expand without one little scuffle between them? Birds singing, children playing etc. I love the game, but jeeze even Civ2 wasn't this spastic in some areas.
     
  2. Gumbolt

    Gumbolt Phoenix Rising

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    In my last Game the French destroyed the last few final Mongol cities. Very reasonable civ the French if you give them what they need.
     
  3. Armorydave

    Armorydave Prince

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    You can demand stuff from other Civs or ask them for the item as a favor if you are in good diplomatic standing (pleased or above I think)
     
  4. scooter

    scooter Prince

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    I saw two civs get knocked out in a game the other day in two wars i was totally uninvolved in. only a 7civ game on a standard map! Genghis and Napoleon got walked on- 2 AGGRESSIVE civs. I was surprised too, but it does happen.
     
  5. vilemerchant

    vilemerchant Prince

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    you can but not until later in the game. when you first meet a civ the only options you get are basically 'Peace' or 'War' and the AI civ ALWAYS accepts your peace.
     
  6. sucinum

    sucinum Chieftain

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    I vaguely guess that this depends on the religions founded on the continent. Most times, one (spiritual) Civ founds all of the early religions, which results in having all AI the same state religion. If there are two spiritual Civs and therefore two continent religions, the AI tend to warfare much more.
     
  7. Lance of Llanwy

    Lance of Llanwy King

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    Napoleon crushed the Indians once....I don't know what the hell happened, because it happened in medieval times and I was alone on a continent with Saladin, but I guess it was him because about 1/3 of his cities had Indian names. Must've been brutal. Also, in one of Sulla's games, Mao beat the crap out of Mansa and left him with on city in the middle of English land, and he didn't have open borders so he eventually gave up...
     
  8. Traxis

    Traxis Chieftain

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    In my last game Tokugawa went on a last minute killing spree and won by Domination when I was ~20 turns from launching the spaceship. He went berserk and started launching nukes, and then steamrolled everyone with tanks and infantry. He had nice land and spent the whole game quietly building infrastructure and then towards the end started fullscale military production.
     
  9. vilemerchant

    vilemerchant Prince

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    Pangea map?
     
  10. Traxis

    Traxis Chieftain

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    Highlands.
     
  11. kazrick

    kazrick Chieftain

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    Hmm, I was just thinking...I don't think I've seen a war between two AI civilizations except where I bribed one to attack the other. That seems weird to me. I've definately never had one AI wipe out another AI. Has anyone else seen that? I'm wondering if maybe I have my settings wrong or something. I know how to make them attack me, is there a way to make them attack each other?
     
  12. AncientPlayer

    AncientPlayer Warlord

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    Yes, I've seen it too but as others indicated its not common. The AI seems to have much less war mongering in Civ4 vs. Civ3. Wars aren't real common and tend to end quickly even with "Aggressive AI" set--at least at Noble and Prince. There's also much less tendency for the AI to dog pile on a Civ once one of them goes to war. Frankly I wish the AI was a bit more agressive or at least the ones that have the aggressive trait.
     
  13. HourlyDaily

    HourlyDaily Man-o-Mercy

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    A little like modern real life.

    In Civ, I'd really like to see a little more randomness in the triggers for war. Apply the ruthless streak they usually display towards you to each other. It does seem that the only reasons they have to start a war are over religious based differences and to kick a Civ when they are down. While these may be realistic reasons - I'd love to see a war started between AI's over trade, or territory particualrly conducive to trade. Presumably the trade and economic model would need to be beefed up a little.

    The new vassal states thing in Warlords might add an extra incentive for AI's to go to war or to fight wars to a more decisive position. Imagine a poor dog-piled AI signing a protectorate with the biggest of its tormentors or the biggest neutral Civ around. Then the fights could turn. I'd love to see plenty of medium sized fish trying to bring down the biggest in the pond.

    A little more variety in "international relations" and a little more risk-taking from the AI would be fantastic.
     
  14. Carcosa

    Carcosa Chieftain

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    I've never seen an AI use nukes before. Did he build them himself?
     
  15. The Tyrant

    The Tyrant Prince

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    I agree that most AI vs. AI wars are indecisive. You'll usually only see an AI elimination when one of them gets a very strong advantage. Even in my last game, an 18-civ small Oasis map, most wars ended with not even one city captured. Throughout the game, only 3 civs were eliminated by AIs, while I eliminated six, myself. This was with multiple religions causing strife, heavily overlapping borders causing tension, player-induced wars, clumped resources, etc.

    Of all maps, I would expect an Oasis map to cause more total-elimination wars because of the uneven distribution of resources matched with a pangea-like ability to reach everyone. Imagine Isabella having the only two horse resources on the map and you'll get the idea. Even so, with all the conditions ripe for one-sided wars, most wars amounted to little more than shouting matches. The warmongering skills of the AIs really have a lot of room for improvement.

    Edit: I want to clarify that I think the developers did a great job, and I can't begin to imagine the difficulties in programming an AI to balance all the choices in a game of CivIV. Frankly, I'm in awe of anyone who even tries to do that. Still, it seems like a few additional concepts (use larger stacks and use them more often, don't declare until your troops are waiting on the border, etc.) would drastically improve the AI's ability to effectively wage war.
     
  16. kamigawan

    kamigawan Warlord

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    As mentioned, when AI is wiped out by other AI is the losing side is very weak, which most frequently happens if they were very weak to begin with (e.g. got boxed in by a bad start), or if several nations are involved "dogpiling" on.

    If you think about the times when the AI is willing to offer peace in wars against humans...this happens sometimes even when I am about to lose, or have lost, a decisive battle...perhaps they factor in war weariness as a factor in their decision as well, because I've had crazy civs like isabella want peace just as time went on, not due to any significant tactical changes in the war.
     
  17. Watiggi

    Watiggi Deity

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    Wow! I would have loved to have seen that! I never thought that the AI in Civ4 could ever get a Domination Victory with the way it is.

    My recent game that I am playing (huge lakes; normal speed; approx 15 civs), the Romans were exterminated by Gandi! :lol: Towards the end, Qin jumped in and scored a couple cities too.

    It seems that if you don't have enough, you wont get anywhere. I mean you can't trade or anything, are perceived badly, are weak militarily, etc. They don't stand a chance. It's ok if it's me, because I can use creativity to get myself out of the problem, but the AI doesn't stand a chance when the 'chips are down'.

    Watiggi
     
  18. Elmstr

    Elmstr Warlord

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    in one game of mine the AI completely destroyed one other.
    But I think they only destroy or capture city's on the same continent where they too have a city or in their starting continent, just to get more space for them self
     
  19. Junichiro

    Junichiro Warlord

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    I see the total destruction of AI every now and then...much more likely in pangaea with 18 civs when peaceful expension can only go on for a limited time (and all civs are relatively small, so they are easy to destroy completely).

    In my last such game Alex destroyed my neighbor Cyrus completely and someone else, Izzy I think, destroyed Roosevelt and Mansa on the other side of the continent while I destroyed Toku.

    I agree on Genghis, he never quite becomes a threat and in general I find him one of the nicer AIs to deal with (as he can be a useful tool or failing all else a sideshow amusement).
     
  20. Watiggi

    Watiggi Deity

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    Yeah, something is wrong with Genghis.

    I think what Genghis's AI is supposed to do is only attack when it knows it will win (which was apart of his nature). I have had him open boarders with me, move some of his units to key locations outside my empire (on the other side, near resources) and then close the boarders and attack.

    I don't have a problem with Genghis waiting until he knows he will win (ie, when he has good numbers and can launch a full on offensive) or setting up a good strategy. The problem with this idea is that he is never in such a good position to start with because he falls behind in tech and runs out of room to expand. He ends up playing catchup all game.

    Hmmm, I might have to play a large game with 2 AI civs (where one is Genghis) and see how he goes..

    Watiggi
     

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