Is anyone else frustrated with the war map?

[Victoria]

What I mean is I have 4 stacks in a siege, and the AI comes up turn after turn with a stack of mongols and all of my units are not in the initial deployment area when is too small for my troops.
I’m playing on civ level if that makes a difference.

At other times I attack a stack of his with a stack of mine and suddenly the map is bigger and includes his nearby city he can retreat into.

it is like every battlefield suites the AI.

also, I take a city but my troops do not move in that turn and he just comes in and takes it. Should I have some units not part of the siege that can zip in after I win?

 

[Dale]

The devs have expressed the game is designed to stop comp-stomping/steamrolling. Not my personal preference, but apparently if you approach war with this in mind it somehow makes the game fun and fulfilling.

 

[Jkchart]

I’m not sure I’ve ever had this problem with battlefields being too small but i guess my wars haven’t always been super massive. I’ve had several respectable battles but honestly haven’t noticed the map size issue.

however I HAVE noticed units don’t move into cities they capture and that should change so you don’t insta lose a city to a single scout cavalry or something nearby (happened to me too with some rebels who were wandering by a city I occupied, which reminds me rebel behavior is downright stupid, as rather than you know rebelling against their country they like to be viking adventurers and try to carve off their own independent realm a continent away instead)

 

[fortydayweekend]

I've definitely had issues with deployment when bringing 4 stacks, but maybe that's intended - that's a lot of troops. But there's always been enough room on the sides to spread out and bring reinforcements in the first turn.

I feel like overall the terrain is definitely on the player's side, it's the main factor that lets you get lopsided results or beat a superior force. I always check the deployment area preview to make sure it's favourable and sometimes send cavalry around on the flank just to claim the high ground, even if it means the main force has to come in as reinforcements.

 

[Taefin]

For the cities, moving units onto a captured city would certainly work. So would triggering a battle when an empty city is attacked if there are any defenders nearby that would be automatically included. Regarding the map getting larger, I do wish it would just show you the actual map size on the preview, I often have to guess whether my units put the outskirts will be involved.

 

[Victoria]

So last night I attacked a Mongol city with 6 stacks, killing the home guard and a stack of Mongols
On their turn the city flopped back to them and another stack of Mongols appeared
Them again, then again
Then I retreated, have you ever tried that?
I retreated a stack of badly damaged hoplites that had a road back to safety about 8 tiles away… but no they went right and deep into enemy territory, I then tried a second hoplite stack that went left and deep into a Hunnic vassal territory
And I am now standing in front of the city with 2 stacks of elephants and 3 badly damaged swords and 3 badly damaged knights thinking what do I do? I turned off my PC and went to bed after raising the question here.

I was on Civ level and had politically played peacefully and allied with both my neighbours and had just found an empty continent when one swapped to the Mongols and devoured the other. So I thought crikey, let’s get stack of shooty elephants and teach them a thing or two. And I learnt.

I've definitely had issues with deployment when bringing 4 stacks, but maybe that's intended - that's a lot of troops.

It is not playing on civ level against the Mongols, the army upkeep was horrendous but it had to be done…

 

[7daysofwar]

So last night I attacked a Mongol city with 6 stacks, killing the home guard and a stack of Mongols
On their turn the city flopped back to them and another stack of Mongols appeared
Them again, then again
Then I retreated, have you ever tried that?
I retreated a stack of badly damaged hoplites that had a road back to safety about 8 tiles away… but no they went right and deep into enemy territory, I then tried a second hoplite stack that went left and deep into a Hunnic vassal territory
And I am now standing in front of the city with 2 stacks of elephants and 3 badly damaged swords and 3 badly damaged knights thinking what do I do? I turned off my PC and went to bed after raising the question here.

I am not going to lie but when I use retreat, I also have that problem, like they just flee in a random direction. I even one time had that my damaged scouts were retreating from some horses of violent people to straight up walk into the Egyptians with who I was at war with. They should try to flee to their homeground, not into the terrotory from who you are at war with.

 

[Barra]

For the cities, moving units onto a captured city would certainly work. So would triggering a battle when an empty city is attacked if there are any defenders nearby that would be automatically included. Regarding the map getting larger, I do wish it would just show you the actual map size on the preview, I often have to guess whether my units put the outskirts will be involved.

You get a preview of the initial combat area, afterwards the whole sector is the battelground and you cant cross the borders of/to the sector. All stacks in the initial combat area (the pink hexes) are deployed as long as there is enough space, if not sometimes even stacks in the initial combat area are not deployed first round, but when you are the attacker you have the first engagement, so that you can deploy them first round too.

I would say this is even realistic, think of the (ancient) battelfields and how formation matters. Even the roman army well overpowered in size and armory, fell at the battle of the Teutoburg Forest.
There was just no space to get in formation...
Or the Battle of Thermopylae near Sparta...

Often you see...in movies...just a part of the army is in formation, the rest is in reserve, to get thrown into battel at demand.



Dont know about the empty city thing, in my games didnt get it yet, thought this would be impossible because your city recruits its own defenders ?! So in theory, a single attacker should never be able to capture a city, as long as its not technology wise super superior?!



Whats annoying me with the battelmap is the colorsheme, I think for better readability its tinted with a greyish overlay, but I want to enjoy the fancy graphics even when this will lower the readability.

Hoping for mod support release asap...

 

[Siptah]

You get a preview of the initial combat area, afterwards the whole sector is the battelground and you cant cross the borders of/to the sector. All stacks in the initial combat area (the pink hexes) are deployed as long as there is enough space, if not sometimes even stacks in the initial combat area are not deployed first round, but when you are the attacker you have the first engagement, so that you can deploy them first round too.

I would say this is even realistic, think of the (ancient) battelfields and how formation matters. Even the roman army well overpowered in size and armory, fell at the battle of the Teutoburg Forest.
There was just no space to get in formation...
Or the Battle of Thermopylae near Sparta...

Often you see...in movies...just a part of the army is in formation, the rest is in reserve, to get thrown into battel at demand.



Dont know about the empty city thing, in my games didnt get it yet, thought this would be impossible because your city recruits its own defenders ?! So in theory, a single attacker should never be able to capture a city, as long as its not technology wise super superior?!



Whats annoying me with the battelmap is the colorsheme, I think for better readability its tinted with a greyish overlay, but I want to enjoy the fancy graphics even when this will lower the readability.

Hoping for mod support release asap...

The rightful owner of a city can always just walk into it when their are no units on top and capture it without resistance. It‘s treated like a 0 pop city (which also can‘t defend). It makes sense to do it like that (why would an occupied city fight against being liberated?). Still, it‘s really annoying if you lose a city right after a siege to this and a successful siege should end with a unit in the city.

 

[Barra]

Oh this is good to known and yes it makes sense.
Im glad I did not had to learn this the hard way

 

[Taefin]

Lol tonight I accidentally right click a scout onto a tile the moment an IP city formed, 0 initial pop, and I insta-capped it, not only that, the IP army walked off to who know where.

 

[Siptah]

Lol tonight I accidentally right click a scout onto a tile the moment an IP city formed, 0 initial pop, and I insta-capped it, not only that, the IP army walked off to who know where.

I used to do this on purpose (camp at IP spawn points). It‘s quite an exploit… hopefully, IPs will spawn with 1 pop at some point. They have some magic tricks up their sleeves anyway, so one more wouldn‘t hurt.

 

[Narcisse]

Whats annoying me with the battelmap is the colorsheme, I think for better readability its tinted with a greyish overlay, but I want to enjoy the fancy graphics even when this will lower the readability.

Hoping for mod support release asap...

There is an option which disable grey tactical map. But last time I tested, there was some missing informations, like the border of the arena which is too much important for me. So I don't know if it's the best solution, and if it was improved, I will give it a test when I can.

What I mean is I have 4 stacks in a siege, and the AI comes up turn after turn with a stack of mongols and all of my units are not in the initial deployment area when is too small for my troops.
I’m playing on civ level if that makes a difference.

At other times I attack a stack of his with a stack of mine and suddenly the map is bigger and includes his nearby city he can retreat into.

it is like every battlefield suites the AI.

also, I take a city but my troops do not move in that turn and he just comes in and takes it. Should I have some units not part of the siege that can zip in after I win?

Yeah, battlefield become bigger depending the number of troops implied in the battle. (from both players)

I like the battle system they created, it's really interesting, but there are some issues with the rules set. And a lot of possible variations and situations, I already imagine modders making a bunch of variations of battle system for exemple.

The issue you got with the instantly lost city after succefully sieging it is a good exemple of specific issue which maybe need an answer. A solution I could imagine is than the stack which iniated the siege should be inside the walls after winning it. So the stack is considered inside.

 

[Victoria]

A solution I could imagine is than the stack which iniated the siege should be inside the walls after winning it. So the stack is considered inside.

Even if a single scout went in, by default all the locals would help me fight (unless stability comes into that) and that could be an issue, but yes, if just your army was defending until the city had say 20% stability it would work.

 

[9gkj548hkm20vk79dj689bnj4]

Lol tonight I accidentally right click a scout onto a tile the moment an IP city formed, 0 initial pop, and I insta-capped it, not only that, the IP army walked off to who know where.

Just happened to me, too. My hand slipped and I sent one of my units attacking an independent city.
Apparently the game doesn't ask for confirmation if you want to declare war against an independent city...?

 

[PhilBowles]

So last night I attacked a Mongol city with 6 stacks, killing the home guard and a stack of Mongols
On their turn the city flopped back to them and another stack of Mongols appeared
Them again, then again
Then I retreated, have you ever tried that?
I retreated a stack of badly damaged hoplites that had a road back to safety about 8 tiles away… but no they went right and deep into enemy territory, I then tried a second hoplite stack that went left and deep into a Hunnic vassal territory

Pathing in this game seems truly miserable in general. I've lost count of the number of 'lost at sea' warnings (and occasional losses) I had because a unit that was supposed to be marching overland decided to go for a swim - since 'lost at sea' is an early era only thing, it seems the AI isn't coded to recognise it and just moves as though sea tiles are free movement the way they are past the first two eras.

Just happened to me, too. My hand slipped and I sent one of my units attacking an independent city.
Apparently the game doesn't ask for confirmation if you want to declare war against an independent city...?

I kept accidentally attacking cities I wanted to besiege to build siege equipment (exactly how that works seems opaque - for a while I got 'siege equipment takes X turns to build' notifications but then 'siege equipment is not available'. And somehow besieged cities seem to get more powerful over time rather than less?)

 

[Barra]

There is an option which disable grey tactical map. But last time I tested, there was some missing informations, like the border of the arena which is too much important for me. So I don't know if it's the best solution, and if it was improved, I will give it a test when I can.

Yeah thank you, found it !

 

[Krajzen]

The devs have expressed the game is designed to stop comp-stomping/steamrolling.

Which is presumably why I have ten times larger income in the end of my first won game than all AI players combined

 

[Jkchart]

Which is presumably why I have ten times larger income in the end of my first won game than all AI players combined

I’m sure part of that is you’re also playing vs AIs

 

[PenngwynXVII]

I'll add this to the wonky combat mechanics list:
Took an enemy city, was trying to raze some outposts in their territory, then was forced into surrender...
Ok, so now my armies are stuck deep in enemy territory, and I can't move them, because I don't have that treaty, and they won't give it to me. Seems crazy. If you are going to force me to surrender, why wouldn't my troops get expelled from your territory?
I get that the devs wanted to curtail warmongering. And, as a lifelong war monger... I actually generally like it. I do think they went a little far in some areas though.
Seems like war after the classic is just a no-go at this point.