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Is "Beyond the Sword" dead?

Discussion in 'Civ4 - General Discussions' started by toft, Aug 21, 2007.

  1. toft

    toft King

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    It's been over a full month since the release of BtS, and still there are gamebreaking bugs. The first patch fixed a few issues, but the second patch wasnt really a patch to the game itself AFAIK.

    Some people that regularly surf CFC or Apolyton, might know of Solver's unoffiacial "patch", but I think that a lot of people visit firaxis.com for info - and they leave without any information about the current state of the game. And to be honest, I dont want an unofficial patch. And Firaxis should be embarressed that a single man can accomplish more than they can. Im not saying they should fix it 100% asap, but make that the goal, and release patches more often - especially for the gamebreaking bugs. And if theres a period of no patches, then plz communicate. Inform us!

    I know of some gamecompanies that actually post what bugs they are planning to fix and when the next patch will be available. Firaxis.com is dead as to information. Information/communication is vital for todays companies, but somehow Firaxis hasnt been made aware of that.
     
  2. Quagga

    Quagga Former Dictator

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    Before I vote, could you list these gamebreaking bugs? I've been playing the game since it was released and I haven't encountered any game breakers.
     
  3. Will9

    Will9 Prince

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    First, Solver is a programmer that works for Firaxis as a beta tester. Firaxis dshouldn't be too embarressed that one of there own was able to do this. There have also been a few people providing some fixes that he included in his patch so it is not just him.

    Second, Firaxis is probably feels that since Solver has fixed so many things, the need for an urgent patch is less.
     
  4. toft

    toft King

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    Espionage bugs on marathon/huge for one... check Solvers patch - theres a lot of bugs.

    And my point is that maybe 5% of the Civ4 buyers surf CFC or apolyton, and a lot just click update within the game and gets disappointed again...

    But I can see that some fanatics in here are blinded by the love of Civ :sad:
     
  5. Charles Martel

    Charles Martel Warlord

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    With BtS, Civ IV has got into a blind alley. I am surprised to see that in this forum there still are people who defend Firaxis after such a disastrous release. So many game breaking bugs, so little communication with the fan base... I guess that some people are so blind to BtS’s defects that they get easy satisfaction from half baked unofficial patches. But to all serious gamers, BtS is half dead and shows no sign of recovery.
     
  6. azaris

    azaris King

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    Apparently Solver's patch is itself broken with regards to corporations balancing, so perhaps it's a question of wanting to play test any changes properly before releasing a patch. Not that patience is a trait very common to some CivFanatics.
     
  7. IronCrown

    IronCrown Black Foe of the World

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    While there aren't any game-breaking bugs unless you play marathon, I do agree that Firaxis should have released an official patch by now, even if it only included those few and easy-to-fix bugs like the poison-water thing.

    They released 3.03 after all, which didn't exactly change a whole lot. Why not release another mini-patch for the most important fixes?

    But I might add: If you buy a game and there are game-breaking bugs, you visit google and one minute later you are reading this forum and know about the unofficial patch ;)
     
  8. Goodgimp

    Goodgimp Warlord

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    Crazy. Here I have played through 4-5 full games to completion since the release of the expansion. There honestly can't be THAT many "game breaking" bugs, because surely I would have found my games broken and unfinishable?
     
  9. FrancisMarion

    FrancisMarion Chieftain

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    After playing Dawn of War at a competitive level where balance actually matters since it can determine who wins money and waiting every 6 months for a patch, I doubt there's anything Fraxis could do to upset me in terms of patching.
     
  10. arstal

    arstal Say No 2 Net Validations

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    3.03 patch being released was a mistake- but due to Steam's error- to avoid borking MP Firaxis had to do it.
     
  11. magichj

    magichj Chieftain

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    If you do not play on marathon there are no real "game breaking" bugs. I would venture to guess that 90% of players keep it at the normal setting and therefore do not notice the bugs. The patch will come when it comes, the game is not dead or even halfway there. The BTS expansion added a lot of fun to the game that was honestly lacking prior to this expansion in retrospect.
     
  12. Quagga

    Quagga Former Dictator

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    OK, I hear that the poisoned water supply on Marathon bug is game breaking. I don't play Marathon, so I guess that's why it doesn't bother me. Marathon arguably favors the human anyway; give Epic a shot.

    The Corporation inflation issue is not game breaking. Just don't use Corporations (i.e., stick with State Property) or make sure you spread them wisely. At most, the need for change here is just a tweak.

    What are the other game breaking bugs?
     
  13. SlipperyJim

    SlipperyJim Prince

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    I play Epic, and I have not noticed any game-breaking bugs. If your game is broken, then play Epic.

    If you really hate BtS that much, play something else?
     
  14. Random Oracle

    Random Oracle Warlord

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    :lol:

    Who's the blind one here?

    BtS has been one of the best expansions I've ever bought. Not only does it include a ton of normal stuff (civs, leaders, techs, units, buildings, wonders), it adds new concepts to the game (corporations, espionage, colonies, random events) and also changes the core game (AI overhaul, tech tree tweaks). All of this has improved the game vastly from Warlords, in my opinion.

    This is not to say everything has been perfect. There are several game balance issues as well numerous other bugs, some of which should have been caught in beta-testing. I do admit that I was hoping the first real patch would have arrived sooner.

    Having said that, Solver's patch fixes a lot of issues and while it may be unofficial, considering that he has worked for Firaxis on this expansion and the patch has code from Blake who wrote the entire AI for BtS, calling it "half-baked" is pushing it.

    I don't have problem with people who don't like the expansion or Firaxis or whatever, but your post is obviously just trolling. Then again, I'm not a "serious gamer", I just do this for fun.
     
  15. magicalsushi

    magicalsushi Prince

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    I think BtS is a fantastic expansion. I'm also willing to wait a while for a comprehensive patch. However, I really don't understand why something as straightforward as the marathon poisoned water bug was not fixed in one of the two patches that have already been released.

    I do think the xp needs a proper patch. The AI doesn't understand corporations, and the diplomatic side of espionage is underdeveloped and unnecessarily gives vast disadvantages to the player. It'd be nice to know that Firaxis intend to fix issues such as these.
     
  16. Lurking Liu

    Lurking Liu Prince

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    Poison Water isn't broken when you can prevent the "bug" by building a freaking Granary. One building available A THOUSAND YEARS before Alphabet can reduce Poison Water to the point where you may lose 1 population, you may lose 2, or you may lose 0. Losing 12 population isn't a bug, it's poor city planning. Adapt.
     
  17. Kaost

    Kaost Berserker

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    I'm on the side of the ppl who enjoy the new Expansion. But I'm also on the side of those who look often about a patch incoming or some infos somewhere. Of course they could improve communication, but this forum is awesome for that. Knowing something like that Solver is from Firaxis give me no doubt about them being aware of the bugs... they are surely cooking something up ! I say, if u find the expansion too buggy, well play warlords or vanilla until a good patch is release. It's like playing a beta, u know it's not perfect, but u want to play it anyway... I have no doubt they'll release patches... afterall its just been a month, its not that a big deal, civ IV is around for almost 2 years.
     
  18. magicalsushi

    magicalsushi Prince

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    Nobody in this thread has said they've lost 12 population. I personally don't even play marathon; as it happens I play quick, where the bug works to my advantage (still unbalanced, but less so and in a different way). And sure, people can "adapt", but the fact is, 24 unhealthiness is worse than 8 unhealthiness, whether you've "adapted" or not. It's very clearly wrong (it should be 8 unhappiness reducing at 1/3 the rate of a normal speed game; how anyone can argue that the intensity is supposed to vary with game speed is beyond me). Just because there is a (limited!) range of measures which can reduce the impact, that doesn't mean it's okay to leave something that's obviously been implemented incorrectly. I really can't believe that Firaxis intended that game speed should influence not only the duration of penalties, but also their intensity.

    I think marathon players are legitimately greived by the bug. Even though I never play marathon myself, I don't feel the need to arrogantly tell them that if there's a problem, they're just playing the game wrong. I wonder whether Firaxis fanboys would have insisted on marathon players "adapting" if the penalties had originally been 3x higher on all levels - giving a perfectly survivable -24 health on normal speed but a truly insane -72 health on marathon.
     
  19. mjs0

    mjs0 The 4th X

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    Wow, I have played about 15 games of BTS (finishing to the end way more than I typically have in the past) and I had no idea I was playing a completely broken game.
    I guess I'd better stop enjoying myself and start sulking.

    Seriously, I know there are a few balance issues on marathon, and as with any game there are a few people (with whom I really sympathise because it is VERY frustrating) who are experiencing serious crashes. However...to characterize the game as broken is quite frankly ridiculous and will achieve nothing except lower your credibility.

    Have Firaxis/Take2 been perfect? No, of course not, not even close, I mostly agree with the frustration over poor communication. Solver (plus Blake) has certainly been doing a great job providing early fixes to the community. So, as usual, individuals have been (and want to be) very helpful, but, as is common, those at the corporate level have been pretty poor at customer relations. A little better (some) official communication would have been appreciated but my expectations were realistically low to start with in that area and have (unfortunately) been met!

    So...Am I a bit disappointed I can't play marathon at the moment (haven't tried and won't until the official fix)? Of course I am, but epic works fine and I'm not going to let it ruin my day.

    At $30 ($15 for some) BTS was excellent value for money for me compared to most forms of entertainment. Last time I took my wife and kids to the cinema it cost more than that for 90 minutes of what turned out to be brain rotting drivel. I have already got at least 60 hours of play out of BTS and I would expect it to be hundreds over the next year, that's a few cents an hour!

    It takes time to code, playtest and balance fixes. For the sake of the vast majority of casual gamers I am very glad that Firaxis/Take2 have not rushed out a poorly tested fix that could have broken more than it fixed.

    When releasing any piece of software, original product or patch, there is a balance to be struck between timeliness and testing. Ship too soon and the product/patch appears untested, ship too late and development costs spiral, the point of disagreement is always where that balance should be struck and at what point the software should ship. I have been happy so far with the balance struck for Civ4 and its expansions, others have not been happy, its all down to what the individual finds acceptable.

    My preference is early access to the original software, and accept a few glitches, then patience awaiting the first patch. Basically, if it means getting a good solid stable fix I am happy to wait, but it would be nice to get a little more information on where we are in the process.
     
  20. BobTheTerrible

    BobTheTerrible Just Another Bob

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    Could someone inform me what these game breaking bugs are? I'm not trying to flame anyone, I just don't know what everyone's talking about.
     

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