Is Britain about to leave the EU?

[HAND]

There's a vote of no confidence being tabled against the opposition Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn now..

 

[Akka]

The other way to look at it, is that those 50+ voters who are in favour of leaving are the very same voters who voted in the 70s to join the EU!!! They've had 40 years of the EU, and they've decided they don't like what its become.

On the other hand, the UK never actually was interested in the EU to begin with. It wanted a market to continue its mercantilist ways and open up more avenues for the City, but it was never interested in any of the founding values of the EU itself.

The comment I've heard again and again and again from my parents generation is along the lines of "it was supposed to be a loose economic and political union, not a pan-European superstate ruled by Germany and France".

Proof they never even looked at what the EU was and just wanted a Commonwealth. The EU was about political union for the very beginning, it was its entire raison d'être. In fact, without the UK to cockblock everything that wasn't benefitting itself at every corner, and making a habit of custom-tailoring and cherry-picking its EU à la carte, the EU would probably be much more integrated and running better by now.

The irony and hypocrisy is strong here. People who voted to join an union without wanting anything about what this union is about, sabotaging it from the inside for decades and then finally leaving it under the pretext that "it wasn't what I wanted". Go figure.

 

[Kyriakos]

The EU is "controlled" by the sum of the 28 governments which are part of it. There is no some kind of Illuminati puppeting them into following some conspiracy garbage. If you are unhappy with how they govern, elect new ones. All members of the EU are democracies, if people aren't happy with how they are ruled, they can vote for different candidates.

But it's easier to be a populist clown trying to paint oneself as fighting the good fight against the Evil Bureaucracy, obviously. A scarecrow certainly can't fight back.

28?
I think it is 27 now.

 

[luiz]

There's a vote of no confidence being tabled against the opposition Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn now..

Well if Labor gets rid of that bolivarian bozo at least some good will come out of this mess.

 

[Old Hippy]

28?
I think it is 27 now.

not for two years, probably ten years

 

[Manfred Belheim]

One of the things that disturbs me most about this forum is its dismissal of older voters - in the other EU thread there was even a comment about "can't wait for those old voters to die". The same comments were made after the Scottish referendum. Everyone's vote is equally valuable, just as everyone's priorities and circumstances are different. EDIT: Even as I was typing, someone else was calling for people they disagreed with to die so that they can get what they want. Seriously dude, you need to step back and listen to what you're saying.

The other way to look at it, is that those 50+ voters who are in favour of leaving are the very same voters who voted in the 70s to join the EU!!! They've had 40 years of the EU, and they've decided they don't like what its become. The comment I've heard again and again and again from my parents generation is along the lines of "it was supposed to be a loose economic and political union, not a pan-European superstate ruled by Germany and France". If that was what it still was, they would have voted remain (and so would I), but it isn't. For the sake of the rest of Europe I hope that Brexit gives the EU the shock it needs to stop its relentless pursuit of "ever-closer-union" but given the comments that have already come out this morning it looks like the opposite is true

It's also a massive oversimplification. I've not seen the breakdown for this referendum, but I remember in the Scotland vote it was something like 60-40 in the over 50s and 40-60 in the under 25s (or whatever). So it completely misses the point that all age groups contained significant numbers of people who voted either way. Pretending that all the over 50s voted 100% one way and that this is somehow betraying the younger generation who all want exactly the opposite is essentially a lie.

 

[Snerk]

Did not see this coming for sure. Felt really confident that this would play out like the Scottish referendum with keeping up the stable course wining out.

But I'm certainly not all pro EU, and I'm very vexed about a potential Norwegian membership. But the thing is that from my point of view all the good arguments for leaving the EU has been absent from the british EU debate and instead it's been filled with Trumpestian nonsense jargon like "put the great back in Britain" and similar reactionary sludge.

For Norway it will be very interesting too see what kind of deal the UK will end up with. Norway's current deal (EØS) with EU isn't all that amazing for Norway. It's basically membership without membership. If UK gets a better deal, we might try and get one as well.

 

[Kyriakos]

Two world wars-- one world cup.
'Inselmonkeys'
We just fell asleep, but why is Estonia also there?

 

[Recon Rover]

I remember several years ago advocating for the United Kingdom to leave and being called an uninformed North American by a British friend of mine now married and living in Canada.

A great day for the United Kingdom and the Commonwealth as a whole.

 

[luiz]

Did not see this coming for sure. Felt really confident that this would play out like the Scottish referendum with keeping up the stable course wining out.

But I'm certainly not all pro EU, and I'm very vexed about a potential Norwegian membership. But the thing is that from my point of view all the good arguments for leaving the EU has been absent from the british EU debate and instead it's been filled with Trumpestian nonsense jargon like "put the great back in Britain" and similar reactionary sludge.

For Norway it will be very interesting too see what kind of deal the UK will end up with. Norway's current deal (EØS) with EU isn't all that amazing for Norway. It's basically membership without membership. If UK gets a better deal, we might try and get one as well.

I think it makes sense for countries like Norway and Switzerland, who are already out and have pretty favorable treaties with the EU, to remain out. But for the UK this will be an economic disruption of epic proportions, and they'll have to negotiate all treaties from scratch. I really wouldn't want to be a British or EU bureaucrat now, because it's going to be hell and everyone will lose (but the Brits most of all).

As for Brexit voters, they need only to look at Switzerland and Norway, both of which have a higher share of immigrants as a percentage of their populations even though they're not in the EU, to see how well their desires will work out.

 

[sherbz]

Dont worry Britain - we're in safe hands

 

[Snorrius]

The EU is "controlled" by the sum of the 28 governments which are part of it. There is no some kind of Illuminati puppeting them into following some conspiracy garbage.

It is called not "Illuminai" but "Bureacrati". A lot of bureacrats in any country are election-independent. This is true for European Union's bureacrats as well.

Now, it is time for other free-loving nations to rise against the yoke of EUSSR!

 

[Tahuti]

As for Brexit voters, they need only to look at Switzerland and Norway, both of which have a higher share of immigrants as a percentage of their populations even though they're not in the EU, to see how well their desires will work out.

I doubt that really brings perspective: In terms of immigration laws, both countries are nearly identical to EU countries, being both members of Schengen. Britain actually got an opt-out from that.

It is called not "Illuminai" but "Bureacrati". A lot of bureacrats in any country are election-independent. This is true for European Union's bureacrats as well.

Actual political power has a tendency to be held by election-independent figures. Elected politicians partake in popularity contests and get their political power from entirely different sources than their election to parliament (such as being a director of an NGO). It usually works the other way around in-fact: Having power is what gets you elected.

 

[Manfred Belheim]

Also.... it's really not ALL about immigration.

 

[Recon Rover]

I think it makes sense for countries like Norway and Switzerland, who are already out and have pretty favorable treaties with the EU, to remain out. But for the UK this will be an economic disruption of epic proportions, and they'll have to negotiate all treaties from scratch. I really wouldn't want to be a British or EU bureaucrat now, because it's going to be hell and everyone will lose (but the Brits most of all).

As for Brexit voters, they need only to look at Switzerland and Norway, both of which have a higher share of immigrants as a percentage of their populations even though they're not in the EU, to see how well their desires will work out.

I've watched the remain side perpetually paint this as a vote against immigrants. I am not the least bit surprised to see that posturing backfire.

As for the difficulty in writing legislation or negotiation, this is the Mother of all Parliaments. It has put together massive documents in a heartbeat before and they can do it again if need be.

 

[Mechanicalsalvation]

A great day for the United Kingdom and the Commonwealth as a whole.

Its likely the beginning of the end of United Kingdom. Not sure if thats really a great thing.

 

[GoodSarmatian]

For Norway it will be very interesting too see what kind of deal the UK will end up with. Norway's current deal (EØS) with EU isn't all that amazing for Norway. It's basically membership without membership. If UK gets a better deal, we might try and get one as well.

It's very unlikely the UK will get a better deal than Norway. The EU will make an example, and it won't be encouraging to other members who want out.

 

[luiz]

It WAS a vote about immigration. I don't think the average Leave voter gives a rat's behind about "overbearing EU regulations" that he doesn't even understand. Any poll will show it was by far the dominant factor for Leave voters, and that's why it was relentlessly exploited by Leave campaigners. Case in point:

Not very subtle.

 

[Snerk]

It's very unlikely the UK will get a better deal than Norway. The EU will make an example, and it won't be encouraging to other members who want out.

If UK doesn't get a better deal than Norway then leaving the EU really will have been utterly pointless. Now I'm not saying that Norway's deal is terribly terrible. Just not at all worth being on the outside of all legislation.

 

[Mount Suribachi]

On the other hand, the UK never actually was interested in the EU to begin with. It wanted a market to continue its mercantilist ways and open up more avenues for the City, but it was never interested in any of the founding values of the EU itself.

Proof they never even looked at what the EU was and just wanted a Commonwealth. The EU was about political union for the very beginning, it was its entire raison d'être. In fact, without the UK to cockblock everything that wasn't benefitting itself at every corner, and making a habit of custom-tailoring and cherry-picking its EU à la carte, the EU would probably be much more integrated and running better by now.

The irony and hypocrisy is strong here. People who voted to join an union without wanting anything about what this union is about, sabotaging it from the inside for decades and then finally leaving it under the pretext that "it wasn't what I wanted". Go figure.

No, but that was how it was sold to the UK electorate. And of course, those who at the time warned what the European "project" was about were dismissed as scaremongerers....

It's funny, seeing all the comments in here from the Euros about "good riddance" kinda sums up my feelings towards Scottish nationalists. I don't them leaving is for the best, but if it means I don't have to listen to their whinging any more...