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Is Bush confined to the USA ?

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by otago, Feb 11, 2011.

  1. Brian Shanahan

    Brian Shanahan Permanoob

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    They told lies, and unless the US got rid of that part of the common law system, telling lies in parliament deliberately is perjury.
     
  2. BuckyRea

    BuckyRea Boldly Going

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    I really don't think he gets to use "I was just following orders" as a line of defense.
     
  3. Mr. Dictator

    Mr. Dictator A Chain-Smoking Fox

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    Unless he wants to expose the Illuminati's master plan :eek2:
     
  4. Luckymoose

    Luckymoose The World is Mine

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    He can blame it on congress.
     
  5. El_Machinae

    El_Machinae Colour vision since 2018 Retired Moderator

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    It's actually complicated. There's the idea of "officially induced error", and this is actually a defense. If you ask an official (in a reasonable way), and then break the law after following their advice, then we can see why we'd want it as a defense.

    What makes it more complicated is the suspicion that Bush told Baybe(sp?) to find a way to legally waterboard. That's not the same thing as officially induced error, because the advising official is no longer a reasonable choice.

    You'll not find out if the bar society is bothered by the behaviour unless the lawyer is disbarred, because such proceeding are confidential. Additionally, the disbarring of the attorney (if it happens) gives us no information regarding whether Bush told them to give him specific advice.

    I think if it's raised as a defense, however, their interactions (the lawyers and Bush) can then be pierced and are no longer privileged. But this is a guess on how the American law would work
     
  6. Brian Shanahan

    Brian Shanahan Permanoob

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    Nah, it was the pretzel. It promised to finish the job if he didn't follow it's orders.
     
  7. sonorakitch

    sonorakitch Overseas hunter

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    What is the legal definition of "severe"? A bit of ambiguity to keep us guessing I guess.

    Doesn't "international law" also forbid capital punishment IIRC?
     
  8. MobBoss

    MobBoss Off-Topic Overlord

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    And the counter-argument to that is that the definition in Article 1 of the CAT is overly broad.....that is, you could probably qualify whacking someone with a newspaper as torture under that definition, or being forced to listen to music you didnt like over a period of time (or sleep deprivation, stress positions, solitary confinement, etc. etc.).

    That wouldnt be ignorance, it would be a lack of specificity of the definition of torture.

    What is law without a means to enforce it?

    Come and get him if you think you can.

    Good luck with that.

    See above.

    See above.

    Yup, which were not defined as torture.

    Its also a very one sided report majorly based upon in-mate allegation and nothing more.

    No, I think its largely based upon prisoner allegation, which may or may not be founded in each particular case.

    Sorry, but thats just incorrect.

    I dont know if he could get a fair trial or not. I do know he wont be tried. Simple as that.

    Except there isnt any such evidence.

    What makes Switzerland so special? Besides watches, cheese and pocket knives.
     
  9. JollyRoger

    JollyRoger Slippin' Jimmy Supporter

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    Swiss Exceptionalism.
     
  10. ParadigmShifter

    ParadigmShifter Random Nonsense Generator

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    Might makes right then.

    Barbarians in a barbaric country.
     
  11. Ajidica

    Ajidica High Quality Person

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    Sigh. Could you at least read the entire article?
    Are you going to admit that there is sufficient evidence for prosecutors to establish a case, or are you going to hide behind 'well, severe could mean many different things, it is too broad'?
     
  12. ParkCungHee

    ParkCungHee Deity

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    Deleted post.
     
  13. otago

    otago Deity

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    Since it seems the US secret service cannot be trusted not to go overboard if an unarmed bobby told Bush he had a warrant for his arrest,(no, not all Brit coppers are armed) should other countries give Bush the PRIVILEGE of having an armed body guard on their soil ?
    Or do they tell Bush, sure you can land but the secret service leave their firearms in the USA ?
     
  14. Mad Man

    Mad Man Your lord and master

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    Bush could probably travel to Kosovo or Albania with out hassle, he's kind of a hero over there.
     
  15. Bill3000

    Bill3000 OOOH NOOOOOOO! Supporter

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    No. There was a nonbinding resolution to promote its abolishment at the UN in 2007, but it's certainly not a binding international agreement.
     
  16. FriendlyFire

    FriendlyFire Codex WMDicanious

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    Gang rape in Iraq is not defined as rape.

    Its a moot point anyway. Why argue? Bush like Nixon and Reagan will never be held accountable, just move on.
     
  17. holy king

    holy king Deity

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    the silver back has roared.
     
  18. Formaldehyde

    Formaldehyde Both Fair And Balanced

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    Nixon and Reagan never advocated torture as a matter of secret national policy, which eventually became public knowledge and even admitted to in his autobiography. If they had violated US and international law in such an egregious manner, I suspect they would have also found themselves subject to arrest in more civilized countries.

    Bush will just have to spend the rest of his life in countries which condone, or even support, the brutal terrorism of innocent people. He certainly won't be the first person who has been forced to do so by his own acts.
     
  19. Silurian

    Silurian Deity

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    So you would disagree that a captured US service man or woman who was repeatedly whacked with a newspaper was being tortured.


    Do the US laws on assault define exactly how an assault takes place or are the laws made so they cover all forms of assault?


    The Swiss courts would enforce the law if Bush was arrested in Switzerland.

    Does the US repeal a law because one person cannot be arrested?



    Why should they. It only becomes the Swiss responsibility if Bush goes to Switzerland.


    So legally Bush would be no different to Pinochet as the US President or ex US President has no special protection in international law and there is no counter argument other than


    Bush could argue that before a Swiss court.

    Glad you no longer disagree that Bush is mentioned in the report.

    Is there anything substantial in the report that is factually incorrect.

    If a US citizen was arrested and assaulted in a police station would his statement be admissible in a US court.


    Bush could point out to the Swiss court (or investigation before trial) which parts of the report and other evidence is incorrect.


    The ICRC disagrees with you

    http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&so...iZmjDA&usg=AFQjCNGcnghIWJhcyfjtfVB_gRjWofXEYw


    And it has been accepted by a number of countries such as Switzerland.

    If Bush decides to go to a country that accepts universal jurisdiction for the crime of torture then he would be putting himself into that countries courts jurisdiction.

    Correct if he does not go to Switzerland he will not risk being arrested and put on trial.


    The court would decide if there is enough evidence to convict Bush.
    That is how courts work in Switzerland.


    They believe that torture is wrong.
     
  20. Formaldehyde

    Formaldehyde Both Fair And Balanced

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    That doesn't make Switzerland "special". It makes the flawed democracies and autocracies which support and defend such despicable acts "special". Take Israel, Egypt and Tunisia, for example.
     

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